Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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crsutton
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

The problem with this is the P-47's rate of climb sucks. I'm constantly getting dived on because the CAP can climb faster and get the bounce on occasion. The P-47 isn't the beast I've been led to believe it is when it's not flying at 42k and getting the dive bonus against lower altitude Japanese fighters.

Without going into game mechanics, the P47 was a slow climber. If you go in low (lower then the opposition) as a slow climber you are in trouble. It is the fighter pilots job to try and fight at an advantage..

If you take away the P47s altitude and thus a large part of its speed advantage what does it have left? Ruggedness and guns - thats about it...


Hmmmm...I am pretty much finding it to be a beast and like it very much. In game terms, I think speed is the most important factor. The 47N is a brute mutha. However, my top aces are all flying the corsair so what do I know.

I real air combat climb is relative. It depends on what kind of climb it is. The light Japanese planes could usually climb fast in a sustained climb but there are many other ways to climb. Because of their horsepower and weight, most Allied planes were better in a zoom climb which is common in energy fighting, and because of their superior speed most Allied planes could best a zero in a shallow extended climb. If a P38 lightning kept his speed up and used a shallow climb there was just not anyway a zero could keep up with it. In the end the faster plane usually gets to pick the engagement which means if the altitude advantage is not there, the faster plane can just opt to extend away them climb back to a good height and either go home or re-engage on more favorable terms.

Have you looked at the climb stats on the Bearcat? That thing is a pure rocket sled to the stars...[;)]
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PaxMondo
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Pax, you can have some of my supply if you want to? I have 103 million sitting around not doing much of anything. [:D]
103M!!?!!

Pax
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obvert
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by obvert »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Pax, you can have some of my supply if you want to? I have 103 million sitting around not doing much of anything. [:D]
103M!!?!!


Pretty amazing the difference. Not sure how much I've used all game, but pretty sure it's no where near a tenth of that figure.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

Feb 22, 1944

What is left of the KB has succesfully re-grouped at Makassar, while the allied fleet retreats to Darwin to lick its wounds.
The Katzuragi crew has managed to estinguish the fires, but the sys damage is up to 74[X(]...will be hard to see her in combat again, even if we manage to reach a yard[:(]
However, the airgroups have been all refilled and the torps reloaded (thanks God i had a good reserves of supplies, AKEs and naval support at Makassar waiting for me).
I've divided the KB into 2 CVTFs and 1 SCTF. The damaged ships (3 CVs and 3 CVLs, along with 1 BB, 2 CAs, 2 CLs and 10 DDs) are grouped into another TF and are sent back to HI moving through Singapore (i intend to move the damaged CVL to the Singapore yard, while escorting the CLs to HK and the BB/CVs to HI).
The KB will remain in the area. I can still manage to efford a force of 670 striking a/c... i'll have to be carefull tough...cann0t efford anymore losses like that. So i'll play in defence.

In the meanwhile another convoy full of troops is unloading at Menado, while more troops are being saved from Timor area and Ambon/Boela (just managed to rescue a full mixed regiment from Alor!...right under Brad's eyes!!!).

Sarmi and Ramree keep on holding off the americans and the brits...

Enemy subs all around hunting for my damaged CVs...


For what concerns the P-47s... well, the 2nd best mnvr rule may not be the best, but for sure it's the best HR around at the moment. I'm really looking forward for Symon's air modifications, even if i haven't talked yet with Brad about trying them... will surely speak with him about it
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Symon
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by Symon »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
I'm really looking forward for Symon's air modifications, even if i haven't talked yet with Brad about trying them... will surely speak with him about it
Do NOT wanna hijack, so posted some stuff about this on the Airplane thread in the Mod Forum. Since it's my algorithm, and not Matrix's, I can talk about it. Just can't talk about the code or how some of the numbers are generated. Will talk to you and Brian, all you want.

Ciao. JWE
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

Game is proceeding very slowly. One turn every couple of days...

We reached feb 24, 1944

The Katsuragi finally sunk... she had just 9 fld damage and 70 sys so I decided to move her from Makassar. was a too easy target for his 4E and his subs could have started to move en masse around Makassar, bloking any retreat path also to the rest of the damaged CVs... could get trapped there.
So I moved her out. In a single night the pumps failed and she went down...[:o]
So the last battle costed me 2 CVs, 2 CVEs and 2 CVLs...

However the rest of the damaged CVs are safely moving away...while what is left of the KB positioned NW of Menado.

The allies didn't do much lately... except from conquering via-paradrop the last empy dot base between Ambon and Kendari...thus closing the sealanes from Kendari to Menado...

The economy:.... oh well...[:-][:o][:o]

Supply is down to 3.37 millions all over the empire
Fuel down to 4.4 mil
Oil down to 300k
HI 2.5 mil
Arm 177k
Veh 46k


While i'm managing to control somehow the fuel dropping curve, supply falling is really uncontrolled...

Planes... Navy pools are almost empty, while I had to stop most of IJAAF production... too many Tojos, Franks, Helens etc...
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

Here's a map where you can see the latest allied conquered bases (yellow circles) and the isolated Japanese garrisons (red circles inside grey lines).
The red quadrangles are the Japanese strongpoints.

As you can see the dam is breached and the allies are now roaming and advancing both north and west. Kendari is no more a safe base for my fleet (already evacuating the support ships and support units, leaving just fighting units there), while the allies are now approaching the next defensive line that covers Mindanao.

The only consolation is that Sarmi keeps on holding and so the Biak sector is more or less safe... keeping the Mariannas' door closed

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PaxMondo
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by PaxMondo »

GJ,

You've done as good of a job here as anyone I have seen. Better than I could. What you seem to confirm to me is that the DEI is not defensible, not in a classic sense. It is an ambush arena. The best I think I want to hope/plan for is ambush the allies two or three times as they move through.

You've held the oil longer than most, but that is an outcome of your no night bombing HR. Many opponents won't agree to that, and mine sure doesn't (Andy AI won't agree to ANY HR's! [;)]) So, most of us are not fighting to keep the oil flowing as we would have lost it +6 Months ago as soon as we lost Darwin and the B29's arrived. We are just fighting for space/time.

Keep going. Taking lot'sa notes here in case I ever get an opponent that will agree to no night bombing.

PS: not disagreeing with your HR at all, but the AFB sentiment in the forum is vociferously against it so ...
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JocMeister
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by JocMeister »

GJ,

Watch Manado. Its the only level 9 AF capable base in the entire region. There is also a backdoor to Manado in that small dotbase SW of the base.

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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

GJ,

You've done as good of a job here as anyone I have seen. Better than I could. What you seem to confirm to me is that the DEI is not defensible, not in a classic sense. It is an ambush arena. The best I think I want to hope/plan for is ambush the allies two or three times as they move through.

You've held the oil longer than most, but that is an outcome of your no night bombing HR. Many opponents won't agree to that, and mine sure doesn't (Andy AI won't agree to ANY HR's! [;)]) So, most of us are not fighting to keep the oil flowing as we would have lost it +6 Months ago as soon as we lost Darwin and the B29's arrived. We are just fighting for space/time.

Keep going. Taking lot'sa notes here in case I ever get an opponent that will agree to no night bombing.

PS: not disagreeing with your HR at all, but the AFB sentiment in the forum is vociferously against it so ...


Thx Pax. Well, NB is really overpowered imho. And Brad thinks along the same lines.
Also, we've avoided it till now, so a change in the HR won't be doable now (i have planned all my production and R&D on that HR and also my strategic distributions of AA units).

Anyway, we've managed to ambush the allied quite a lot in this theatre in the last year...it's been pretty bloody for Brad to advance here and i don't think this was the best advancing vector for him. Too many bases to close before he could advance safely...
The oil flow remains "secure"...or better: as secure as it could be with the horde of allied subs around. But before he can shut down my fields he needs to be in sweeping range...so some more weeks i guess.

Joc: Menado is well garrisoned... 5 forts and nearly 1000 AVs with some heavy guns there.
The bases around it have some serious garrisons too. He will be conquering them, but that won't be cheap nor easy
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PaxMondo
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


Thx Pax. Well, NB is really overpowered imho. And Brad thinks along the same lines.
Also, we've avoided it till now, so a change in the HR won't be doable now (i have planned all my production and R&D on that HR and also my strategic distributions of AA units).
I agree, but as you know it is not unanimous at all .... you are fortunate to have found an opponent to agree ...
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


Thx Pax. Well, NB is really overpowered imho. And Brad thinks along the same lines.
Also, we've avoided it till now, so a change in the HR won't be doable now (i have planned all my production and R&D on that HR and also my strategic distributions of AA units).
I agree, but as you know it is not unanimous at all .... you are fortunate to have found an opponent to agree ...


Yes, cannot agree more. Brad has been the perfect opponent, in every possible meaning!


However as soon as Brad will be in B29 range of Japan, he will be able to night bomb. So we'll see the same outcomes we're seeing in Joc-Obvert's game
fcharton
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by fcharton »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
However as soon as Brad will be in B29 range of Japan, he will be able to night bomb. So we'll see the same outcomes we're seeing in Joc-Obvert's game

Yes but then, the game is in autopilot mode. He collects the VP, you try to limit it, and both of you get the final result in short order.

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JocMeister
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


Thx Pax. Well, NB is really overpowered imho. And Brad thinks along the same lines.
Also, we've avoided it till now, so a change in the HR won't be doable now (i have planned all my production and R&D on that HR and also my strategic distributions of AA units).
I agree, but as you know it is not unanimous at all .... you are fortunate to have found an opponent to agree ...

The problem is that Jap fighters are so insanely powerful against 4Es doing anything outside sweep range in daylight is completely out of the question. I think a more reasonable balance here would negate the need for night bombings that many have to resort to.

I think the cries of "overpowered 4Es" took it a bit too far and now we have the reverse problem. So now the allied players have to find circumventing ways to use their "paper 4Es" as I fondly (not really [:D]) like to think of them. That leads to heavy night bombings instead which is not working very well.

I think massed night bombings of ports and AFs is too accurate and powerful. Its no problem to mass 500-1000 bombers and close airfield after airfield within range. We have not used it in our game after realising it was a problem. Strategic night bombings have to be allowed though as the B29s are just as "paper" as the rest of the 4Es. Heck even at night I´m losing 0.5 B29s per airborne NF.
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


Thx Pax. Well, NB is really overpowered imho. And Brad thinks along the same lines.
Also, we've avoided it till now, so a change in the HR won't be doable now (i have planned all my production and R&D on that HR and also my strategic distributions of AA units).
I agree, but as you know it is not unanimous at all .... you are fortunate to have found an opponent to agree ...

The problem is that Jap fighters are so insanely powerful against 4Es doing anything outside sweep range in daylight is completely out of the question. I think a more reasonable balance here would negate the need for night bombings that many have to resort to.

I think the cries of "overpowered 4Es" took it a bit too far and now we have the reverse problem. So now the allied players have to find circumventing ways to use their "paper 4Es" as I fondly (not really [:D]) like to think of them. That leads to heavy night bombings instead which is not working very well.

I think massed night bombings of ports and AFs is too accurate and powerful. Its no problem to mass 500-1000 bombers and close airfield after airfield within range. We have not used it in our game after realising it was a problem. Strategic night bombings have to be allowed though as the B29s are just as "paper" as the rest of the 4Es. Heck even at night I´m losing 0.5 B29s per airborne NF.

Joc, as u know I play both Japs and allies and, i'm sorry, I don't agree with your opinion about 4Es, nor about jap fighters being overpowered.
If the allies fail to obtain the control of the skies over their targets, they cannot hope to send in 4Es without escort and see them coming back safely. It's a wrong assumption imho.
The 4Es shouldn't be used (as they used to be at the beginning of witp) or thought as a way to obtain the local air superiority over a base or an area. They need the fighters (and the navy) to clear the skies before they can be used to close down AFs and Ports.
The mid-war Japs fighters are just as good as they should be against allied 4Es.
For what it's worth, I've played thousands of hours in IL2 Sturmovicks and the following upgrades and I can easily say that a N1K could easily shoot down a couple of 4Es if flown properly (meaning if you know how to boom&zoom them using the good angles in order to avoid their guns).

However we're both beating a dead horse here. Guess there will never be, here in the forum, a common point of view about 4Es[:D]
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
However we're both beating a dead horse here. Guess there will never be, here in the forum, a common point of view about 4Es[:D]

That we can both agree on at least! [:D]
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PaxMondo
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
However we're both beating a dead horse here. Guess there will never be, here in the forum, a common point of view about 4Es[:D]

That we can both agree on at least! [:D]
I think the entire forum can agree on this!

[&o][&o][&o]
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

Feb 24-28, 1944
 
The game proceeds slowly...very slowly, but proceeds.
 
We're trying to fight back as we can, but the odds are against us now.
 
Kendari and Biak are being raided by several Fletchers TFs... so far we've managed to repulse them with some small DDs losses, but we cannot hold them off for long. The KB lingers at Menado and launched a series of uncoordinated strikes against small shippings north of Ambon... losing more planes and pilots for a couple of xAPs full of engineers... not worth the cost!
Then we swept from Kendari, obtaining a good 2-1 and 24 Oscar Kamikazes sunk 2 more transports full of engineers...again little and meaningless victories in the big picture.
 
On the 26th we managed to ambush the daily bombing runs from Hollandia to Sarmi, downing 150 enemy planes and losing 30 of my own. Not bad. Had to disband 2 groups of Georges that were stuck at Sarmi after the battle, losing some 40 airframes...but we, again, slowed them down on that flank! And the allies are nowhere near to breakthrough at Sarmi.
 
The enemy CVs are unseen....mmm...
 
More landings at Namlea... no way to stop them.
 
My damaged CVs are getting close to the HI...thanks god.
 
2 BBs (Fusos), 2 CLs and 4 DDs are ready at Tokyo after some loooooong repairs.
 
The evacuation of Timor and Ambon keeps on going on. One more mixed bde has been evacuated by air and by fast transport.
Also saved an HQ and some AA units from Alor and Roti. Not bad.
 
 
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GreyJoy
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by GreyJoy »

The game is really slow now. More or less two turns per week. I see QBall very active on the Civil War II forum, so I fear he might feel a bit of dis-affection for WITP and for our game.
Let's hope for the best...
JocMeister
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

Post by JocMeister »

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

The game is really slow now. More or less two turns per week. I see QBall very active on the Civil War II forum, so I fear he might feel a bit of dis-affection for WITP and for our game.
Let's hope for the best...

Lets hope he doesn´t repeat the same vanishing act he did with CR. [:(]

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