M113 Scout Platoon?

[DoubleDeuce]

I've looked and looked and cannot seem to find an M113/M150 equipped Scout Platoon for an Armor Battalion. In Baumholder, FRG we were one of the last units to transition to the M3A1 Bradley's (happened sometime after I left in mid '87'). Is it in there somewhere?

[CapnDarwin]

I'm going to move this to the scenario/mods folder. Also if you look further down the formation listing to the Arm/Mech Div Formations (90-) you will find in the Armoured Battalion a scout platoon with recon track and self propelled AT combo. I have the M113 phasing out in 84. If you are saying 87-88 I will fix the US data so the M113 shows for those years as well as the M3.

[DoubleDeuce]

They still had M113's and M150's when I left in May 87. I'm trying to get some more information on the actual transition date from guys who were there after that. 2/68 Armor was always at they bottom of the list for getting new stuff.

[Mad Russian]

There are M150's in some of the scenarios.

This comes down to my distorted view, 1) of all things military work then stir in 2) Murphy's Law.

All things military are a jumbled mess. Ask any of us that served. The terms:

Hurry Up and Wait
SNAFU - Situation Normal All Fouled Up (Close Enough for a family forum)
The Right Way, The Wrong Way and the Army Way

Just for a very few. If you want others the guys can give you hundreds of them.

Take that and mix in Murphy's Law. Where if it will go wrong it can go wrong. But only at the most inopportune time.

Take about equal doses of both and you end up at my scenarios.

Where one gamer was complaining about having to face Hinds with limited ADA, IMO, it would happen more often than not. Yes, I'm fully aware of what the ORBAT says you SHOULD have. And when you should have it. That put's us back to 1 and 2.

Yes, the ADA is there, but it's 3 clicks back in the village trying to get caught up because the LT took a wrong turn and is now not with the main unit. He is getting to watch/listen to the battle from the too far away to impact it.

My scenarios are rarely about the traditional/classic matchups. They are there too but they aren't all that's there. Because it was my experience that where everything came together as intended was the rare exception rather than the rule. One time you will be short of artillery, the next time infantry, you may not have much recon, or your ADA is off on a wrong turn. Those are the things that happen in real life that a commander has to work through.

I just felt it was my job to help you, as the commander, work through it! [:D]

I think that's why Charles says I'm evil. [&:] [8|]

Good Hunting.

MR

[CapnDarwin]

I'll see if I can get this data edit in the 2.02 update. we tried to lock the changes a day or so ago and I've been pushing small things through. If not it will be in the 2.03 update for sure.

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

All things military are a jumbled mess. Ask any of us that served. The terms:

Yes, I'm fully aware of what the ORBAT says you SHOULD have. And when you should have it.

My scenarios are rarely about the traditional/classic matchups. They are there too but they aren't all that's there.

A suggestion. TacOps provided a nice library directory of relevant documents to help players understand stuff. FC:RS could consider the same. In particular, provide copies of the ORBATs and TO&Es for the different forces and time periods. Then modders could tweak things to be more or less traditional.

As an aside, I served in an M113 infantry battalion under the H Series TO&E. This said the four mech infantry companies should have had two M901 ITVs each and our E Co the other 12. But we had all 20 under E Co. So even though the paper said one thing, the reality was something else. The weakness, from my point of view, was we didn't have the extra thermal sights of the M901s on the line. If we ever needed them...

[Mad Russian]

There is so much we want to do with the game. [&o]

And so little time to get it all done. [:@]

We can always use ANY AND ALL TO&E data you guys have. What is often put out as official was some bureaucrats pie in the sky answer. We all know that those TO&E's were simply wish lists most of the time and reality was far different.

Good Hunting.

MR

[CapnDarwin]

All of that information is in the USER data files albeit in a form the game can understand. You can see all of the OOB/TOE in the scenario editor.

As for OOB/TOE info there are a lot of decent sources out there online for folks to use. Some of the better info comes from places like the Fire and Fury http://coldwargamer.blogspot.com/2012/09/web-resources-fire-and-furry-cold-war.html or things like the MicroMark OOBs (can be purchased online at a few sites and covers a wide array of time periods). We use elements of these, info from folks who served, Janes books, many tables and charts, data models and other info to get down to what we have. For various reasons most of which can't be just copied and freely posted for general use.