Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets

DSWargamer
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:07 pm

Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by DSWargamer »

Just got my parcel in the mail.

Shared a chuckle with the chap, was mentioning some are lamenting shipping circumstances, the ambush at the door wanting more cash. He seemed to realize immediately it was a moment to disparage FedEx.

Enough of that, let's talk about the actual books, not the CONTENTS of the books, but the books themselves.
If like me, all you have seen is shiny covers, and colourful images on screens. You know how thick the tomes are. You might know page counts.
But a book is not always created equal when it comes to the physicality of the item.

So I take substantial pleasure in letting everyone know, it doesn't really get any better.
I have been buying books for a looooong time. I have bought expensive first edition fiction aplenty. I know what a good book looks and feels like. I will likely spend as much to buy a Terry Brooks Shanara trilogy as I did these books (well before shipping and all that).

I recall the 2nd edition D&D books as hard covers, and they were the last word in the worst made gaming books I have ever had dumped on me. So it is not like good is written in stone.

On opening the volumes, I am pleased to note that they are sturdy, superior, high quality bindings (as I see it). The pages are nice superior quality. You can insist that ADG might have a different slant on the game rules, and they likely will soon enough, but, I dare say, you will not regret playing your game with these manuals, and I don't mind saying, routine, simple stapled wargame rules will lack the thrill of using these books.

Oh if I only had a nice volume like this for my A3R rules. And if ASL was not so prone to revising the page order and just for the sake of typos, I might dive in and get them properly bound too. I might anyway, I have lost the drive and obsession with keeping up on ASL too. I don't really know if I care if I never add another page to my ASL manual set.

These books are awesome. You paid top dollar for a set of books, and you most assuredly have gotten books that will be around a long time regardless of how often you thumb through them.

I feel sad for people who have taken the slant the purchase was the program, and some books added on. I bought the books as well. The books are every bit the reason I was ok with the price. Minus the books, the program is worth at most to me, about 50 bucks like any other piece of software.

No I wanted those books. And they arrived rather promptly I might add.

If I seem to have wandered off after today, I might have just realized, I have said all I can't think of to say. Ideally, I'd also hope I am simply too busy playing the game :)
Going to be reading a while though. There's a lot of book here.
I have too many too complicated wargames, and not enough sufficiently interested non wargamer friends.
User avatar
FroBodine
Posts: 874
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:13 am
Location: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by FroBodine »

I am so jealous. I can't believe you already received your books so fast, with the shipping problems they said they were having.

I wish I could change my order to overnight delivery. I was hoping to have them by this weekend for my vacation.
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39653
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by Erik Rutins »

Great to hear, thank you for posting!
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
User avatar
Erik Rutins
Posts: 39653
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA
Contact:

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by Erik Rutins »

You may yet receive them by the weekend, jglazier - all things are possible and you are not that far from the warehouse.
Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC


Image

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.
User avatar
wodin
Posts: 10709
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:13 am
Location: England
Contact:

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by wodin »

Leaping Horsemen and Jason D Marks books are superb quality, beautiful think semi gloss paper etc etc. You want books on the Eats front then buy Jasons books. The best out there.

Sorry for off topic..

carry on;)
User avatar
FroBodine
Posts: 874
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:13 am
Location: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by FroBodine »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

You may yet receive them by the weekend, jglazier - all things are possible and you are not that far from the warehouse.

That would be fabulouso! I still have not received any shipping e-mails, but I am crossing my fingers and toes regardless.
User avatar
Mundy
Posts: 2867
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:12 am
Location: Neenah

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by Mundy »

I'm fairly content with what I've spent.  Three of the current Warhammer 40k or FB army books would run $150 alone.  For the books to be included with this game is a steal IMHO.
 
Ed-
Image
icitrom_y
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:10 pm

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by icitrom_y »

I didn't even receive a FedEx email yet. I keep checking that receipt from Plimus with fields for tracking number and they remain empty. Shouldn't the rest of us at least have a tracking number? (I ordered a couple of hours after the game went on sale.)
 
I'd like to know because I'm receiving my package in the US although I live in Canada. I'd like to be able to coordinate things.
 
User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4766
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
I feel sad for people who have taken the slant the purchase was the program, and some books added on. I bought the books as well. The books are every bit the reason I was ok with the price. Minus the books, the program is worth at most to me, about 50 bucks like any other piece of software.

No I wanted those books. And they arrived rather promptly I might add.

Yup, we get it--you like books, and I'm truly glad that you like them. But that doesn't mean that everyone will, or should, want them or need them.
User avatar
Centuur
Posts: 9074
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:03 pm
Location: Hoorn (NED).

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
I feel sad for people who have taken the slant the purchase was the program, and some books added on. I bought the books as well. The books are every bit the reason I was ok with the price. Minus the books, the program is worth at most to me, about 50 bucks like any other piece of software.

No I wanted those books. And they arrived rather promptly I might add.

Yup, we get it--you like books, and I'm truly glad that you like them. But that doesn't mean that everyone will, or should, want them or need them.

I understand. But they are really looking good, if you want them or not... [;)]
Peter
chekers_MatrixForum
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:33 am

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by chekers_MatrixForum »

I ordered the game on the day it came out and I've still not received the e-mail confirmation of it being sent to me. So thanks for rubbing it in my face [:@]
Numdydar
Posts: 3281
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:56 pm

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by Numdydar »

Well if it they were shipped USPS then you could still get them on Saturday, otherwise if not tomorrow, then next week.
Maesphil74
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:51 pm

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by Maesphil74 »

I'm starting to appreciate the discussion that went/goes on concerning the shipping (any news on this Erik and other Matrix people?) of the books.

You have the PC gamers: not used to physical shipping.  Don't like books as manuals and read pdf on screen/ipad/laptop. 
And then you have the board gamers who were drawn to this site because of MWIF.  They are used to physical products, they crave books.

I can appreciate both sides.   That's why I was flabbergasted the choice wasn't offered by Matrix.   Give the books to the people like DSWargamer; I really appreciate how happy he is.  He wouldn't even imagine playing this game without those books.
And keep the books where they are for the people like me [:D]

I thought Matrix had a meeting yesterday to discuss the option of DD only.
No news on that?
Phil
User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4766
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by 76mm »

don't get me wrong, I love paper books and have a a couple walls full of beautiful volumes, mainly history and literature. That said, I buy hard copies now only when a kindle version is not available (which is often enough for WWII history). and game manuals in particular have no appeal for me.
Maesphil74
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:51 pm

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by Maesphil74 »

Oh, me too.  I have a nice library upstairs.  But no game manuals.  All nicely sorted in the ebooks app. 
Phil
DSWargamer
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:07 pm

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by DSWargamer »

I suppose it depends on your definition of 'game manual'.

I printed out my War in the East manual in black and white, because eventually an emanual is not identical to an ebook. You might wonder, where is the distinction. Well. in a manual, I might want to go from one page to another back and forth several times and read several others all mixed in there. Sure I could read the WitE manual off my tablet, but, they suck for thumbing through as manuals.

Now, if it was me reading my latest Dune series novel, well the difference is I read a page, I turn the page, I read the next page I turn the page, if I feel I have read enough after 10 pages I put it down, and I might not get back to if for hours or days. But the story remains in my head, although the contents are just that, a story. They are not a manual.

When playing a game, a complex game, I am likely going to be flying back and forth through sections reading and re reading and then re reading some more. And it is just not the same with a efile.

Not all games are this complex. There is a manual for Battle Academy. I never read it. Never read it either. There's nothing to read really. You play the 3-5 minute tutorial to explain the interface controls and after that, the real learning process is in realizing why your friend keeps doing the things they do in game, and how do you pull something on them that takes them off guard. You don't get that in a manual.

Some games, the manual is useful, but it is hard to get worked up over a short brief manual. And in some cases, the tutorial scenario is what you need and all you need. Looking here at the books and realizing, THOSE are the tutorials :)

But I recall many games of the past, and nothing happened till you learned the manual.
I think some of wargaming, loses out on something valuable, when too much of the game is actually hidden under the hood in the program.
I know why everything does what it does in the ASL manual. I have no real idea why so much of what happens happens in Steel Panthers. It's mostly click unit, you can move in the shaded spot only, and no thinking involved. Now an ASLer can tell you precisely why the unit can get to any place in range of it in a single move. They can systematically list off each and every miniscule expenditure of effort.

So much of that is missing in computer wargames and while that can be ok, the thing is, it is still missing.

I like having the print manuals here. I can now dive into this game, and utterly digest this game, and no exactly what should be happening on the screen from the inside out. And pdf files, will just not be as easy to read. The magnitude is too great in this case.

I tried the idea of using my tablet and my laptop to run role games. Thought it would prevent me from being swamped under a stack of books. Thought 'hey cool, I can walk to the game, just the laptop, and not be buried under a ton of books. It didn't work. Eventually, you need the physical in some cases. The tablet is a great idea to read a book at the donut shop, or read a book on the subway to work. They can play video, and they make nice web browsers, and they are ok to read novels from. They are a lame substitute for a manual though.

I think the largest problem besetting computer World in Flames, is the perception it is more computer program, than set of books.
I think there will be a lot of people finding out, that relying on pdf files is just not going to cut it as well.
They are ok for the light reading aspect if you want to get in some study on the toilet, or a lunch break, or at the cottage. But for playing the game, I have no expectations of using anything digital for reference.
I have too many too complicated wargames, and not enough sufficiently interested non wargamer friends.
Maesphil74
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:51 pm

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by Maesphil74 »

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

I suppose it depends on your definition of 'game manual'.
...
With all due respect but it seems you just aren't using pdf files as they were designed to be used.
You can create bookmarks for getting to pages quick, search the document for key words, keep them updated in case of errata, they can be hyperlinked with several key words etc.

And btw: I read my ipad on the toilet as well [:D]


Anyhow, I appreciate what you're saying.
I just don't get why they are had to 'force' the books on everyone.

Don't you agree that a choice would have been better? That way the both of us would be happy.
Phil
Rainsong94
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:13 am

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by Rainsong94 »

Very well said DSWargamer!!
User avatar
76mm
Posts: 4766
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 4:26 am
Location: Washington, DC

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
I think the largest problem besetting computer World in Flames, is the perception it is more computer program, than set of books.

I understand why you like paper manuals, just not everyone feels the same.

And I have to say that I find the statement above to be really difficult to understand and impossible to agree with. We've been arguing about whether Matrix should offer a D/D only version, are you suggesting that they should also offer a book-only version?
User avatar
Dorb
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: Ohio

RE: Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

Post by Dorb »

76mm, I can't wait until you actually get the game. Starting to think I want you to have the game as much as you want it. Maybe we can all pool some $$$ together to help with the freight issue for you...

One day down the road we will all look back on all these posts and have a good laugh.
I am more afraid of an army of 100 sheep led by a lion than an army of 100 lions led by a sheep.
… Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Perigord
Post Reply

Return to “World in Flames”