Weather issues

[Easo79]

The question can be better reformulated in a different way.

There is a finite number of weather regions: in which one does Moscow fit the best?

I see in the picture above the different weather regions. Let's see..."Mediterranean"...mmm not likely, "Monsoon"?[:-]

"North Temperate"? Maybe this is a good candidate, I do not know, but perhaps it has many rain instead of snow impulses in winter...

My impression is that if the programmer had included some additional weather zones outside those included in the original game he had been court martialled and summarily shot by the devoted fans of the game.

By the way, the wiki quote you use mentions that each 10 years, there is one snow day on average during May in Moscow, so that is not totally “never”. Some other inner Russians city are mentioned in the Wikipedia as having occasional snowy days in May (Gorki, Novgorod, Minsk, Smolensk), and as it has been mentioned, a line must be drawn somewhere. If one assigns a zero chance for snow for the arctic weather during May/June, Murmansk would be misrepresented (and many other places as well)

EDIT: to admit that I have seen snowy streets and roads only a couple of times in my life. It is a very bizarre phenomenon at Palma.

[henri51]

This could be due to an error in checking Moscow weather records, which show that the average number of snowy days in May is 0.1. However this does not imply a 10% chance but a 0.1/30=1/300 chance of a snowy day since there are 30 days.

In sum, one the one hand it is not true that the probability of snow in Moscow is zero, but OTOH it is only 1/300, that is about once every ten years.Of course the probability of two snowy days in a row is practically zero.Another way to see it is that if there is on the average 0.1 snowy days in May each year, then in ten years there is an average of one day over ten years.

However this does not take into account the snow on the ground, which is more important for movement than snowfall, and as one who lives in Quebec, there is often still snow on the ground at the beginning of May, and sometimes even into June and in forested areas, there is ALWAYS snow on the ground in the middle of June.I would guess that it is the same for Moscow.

[Ingtar]

May in Colorado averages 1.5 inches, more in recent years. The way the game chart is set up, 10% is the minimum chance for a single snow turn they can set up.

[Greyshaft]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

How about this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Moscow

or this

Summer (Hot Season)

The summer which typically lasts from May and concludes in October sees surprisingly warm and appealing weather, particularly through the months of June, July and August. From April the cold weather begins to improve as the remaining snow starts to thaw and everything turns to slush. By May the everyday weather has made an exceptionally large incline by means of daytime temperatures are precipitation levels. Daytime temperatures generally rise from an average of 2�C to 15�C from April to the end of May. High temperatures from June to August range anywhere 20�C to 25�C, occasionally rising into the high twenties. It is also common for the city features extreme heat waves anywhere from May to the end of September. The heat waves generally last for one or two weeks as the average temperature sores up beyond 30�C, the air throughout this time tends to be humid and clammy causing an unpleasant atmosphere to its surroundings. The daytime temperature remains pleasing right through September; although by mid-October frosts begin to occur during the night and nearly all precipitation comes in the form of snow.

Quoting Wikipedia as an authoritative source for weather records is scholastically ambitious. I admire the effort that has gone into Wikipedia but I only ever use it as a starting point for research. Does that Wikipedia article cite any references? It might be better to quote those original sources.

[paulderynck]

Two of the worst winters since records were kept occurred in Europe during WWII. The weather zones cover a lot of territory and with only six turns per year they give reasonable results given the history of the German winter experience in Russia. Yes sometimes you can get winter effects in May-June. The only turn it can't happen is July-August.

Now it you control the die rolls, you can set the best possible weather every impulse of the game and absolutely massacre the Russians. Gee, what a fun, challenging game...

[Numdydar]

With the auto save feature this is a non-issue for me at the time. Still not how I think it should work but no longer a show stopper.

Also cold winters have nothing to do with May/June weather patterns which is what we are discussing here. I also found other sources besides Wikipedia to prove my point but since I found a work around I no longer need to care [:)]

[paulderynck]

WiF players have put up with the weather chart that's in the game for 25 years. Once you play both sides you'll see it provides play balance and part of the fun and challenge of the game is when odd things happen and you have to try to overcome them.

Your fixes will not work for a NetPlay game, nor should they.

Or to put it another way... Dem's da rules, they ain't changing, so get over it.

Edit; To add to this hilarity, Snow is the next best thing to Fine for movement. Will you be doing the quit/restart when you get Rain for the weather?

[76mm]

I just noticed this thread. I've lived in Moscow for more than ten years, and it clearly does not have an arctic climate. I have never seen it snow here in May, maybe a couple of light snows in April. As to the weather being "worse" during WWII than now, that may be right, dunno, but last winter Moscow had more snowfall than in more than 100 years: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Moscow_expe ... _100_years

Southern Russia, near Kursk, is even less "arctic".

Understood if the game only has a limited number of weather zones, but let's not pretend that there is any significant chance of snow in Moscow in May. Same with snow on the ground--very little if any by May.

[paulderynck]

Somewhere in the threads here is the result of a Monte Carlo simulation I did for the weather in 1 million games of WiF. If you do get a Snow result in one impulse it is impossible to get it in the next due to the add 1 on the Weather Chart. Likewise if March-April ends with weather that has an add 1, then it is impossible for the first impulse of May-June to have a result of Snow. The simulation gave the overall likelihood of getting Snow for any one impulse in May-June as 8.4%.

Let's not forget the Arctic weather zone extends from just north of Kiev to the Arctic Circle. It is an abstraction. But since movement and supply are both better in Snow than in Rain, Storm or Blizzard - what is being abstracted? There is no "Frost" in WiF but in a lot of ways Snow works more like Frost in games that have that mechanism.

Give the game as designed a chance, fellas, there's much more to it than you might surmise.

[Centuur]

I would also like to say that I don't think you have to see the weather for an impulse if it is bad necessary being 'Storm, Snow, Rain or Blizzard' as stated on the weather charts. They are used to "simulate" a general weather condition appearing during two impulses. To me, the mentioning of Snow in the Med or in M/J in the southern part of the USSR's artic zone f.e. seems strange too. However, my interpretation of this happening is that it is probably a light rain, not the same as the rains or storms, but still having some impact on game play.

Things are abstract in a strategic game and so are certain weather types in MWIF in some turns, IMHO.

[Numdydar]

That is a really good point Centuur. Thanks for pointing that out. It could just be some form of wintery mix, sleet, etc. versus actual snow.

Of course if you see the word snow, (and yes I did say quite a few comments after the weather appeared on the map [:@]), you tend to think of actual snow and look to see if it was anywhere close to reality. Once you get locked into that line of thought, it is hard to imagine alternative answers to the problem. The 'If I have a hammer, then everything is a nail' kind of thinking [:D]