Patch

[Phoenix100]

Just wondered - Dave, if you check in - is there any progress on the armour v halftrack issues that were raised? Or the supply issues? And do you have any idea at all when you might work up the next beta? many thanks!

Peter

[navwarcol]

Peter.. you KNOW the devs of any game are trained to ignore requests like that lol... you have to be more subtle.. a headline "Girls Girls Girls" helps.. then in your topic you bury your question... that way they already are drawn into the black hole so to speak, and will answer maybe.. [:D]

[Arjuna]

Peter,

Yes, yes and no. Our private Panther Dev Forum and Bug Tracker sites are very busy at the moment as we try to address these issues.

Miquel has written some code to log the fire data so we can get to the bottom of the M8 issue. We've got some preliminary data coming in but will need more. So far I can tell you that we have narrowed things down to a number of areas but we need more testing to hit the nail on the head.

As to the supply issues. I have already finished a couple of these but I am in the middle of writing some code that will store a Resupply History for each unit. I need this so I can write some code to prevent the sending of supply runs to units where previous runs have met a bad fate. I've finished the basic coding to store the history but I have yet to do the code that uses this and prevents the runs. Once I have that done I will then review the code that inflicts casualties on the supply vehicles.

So yes we are busy on these. Please be patient and do not get alarmed if you do not hear back from us for two weeks. There's a lot to do.

While I am at it I would like to point out to everyone reading this that addressing these issues takes a lot of time and effort. We cannot continue to put this amount of effort in without getting some remuneration for it. There are some who would argue that you can't charge for bug fixing. And in part I am sympathetic to that viewpoint. But there comes a point when the additional effort cannot be economically justified, especially when it involves adding what are in part new features, as with this Resupply History. That point has long since been passed on this title.

This next patch will be free but it will be the last for BFTB or what we now refer to as Command Ops 1. From then on we will be working on Command Ops 2. If there is a perceived shortcoming in any area you can raise it and we'll try and address it as part of Command Ops 2. Note that the new engine will be able to run your earlier Command Ops 1 scenarios. Don't ask me about when Command Ops 2 will be out. I just don't know at this stage.

[budd]

Sounds Good, i'd like to inquire about the med pack and where that fits in.

[navwarcol]

I personally think that is a fair viewpoint also. There are a lot of games put out, that never even bother to fix things, I for one don't mind paying for what I see are "add ons" as time goes along. I think the game worked pretty well, I have had a lot of fun with it, so I cannot consider it broken by any means.I have already, easily gotten my money out of it. I do look forward to the next iteration of the engine though.
I did have a question however, and perhaps I just misunderstood something along the line, but does your post mean that the Med pack will be part of "Command Ops 2"? Or does it just mean that it will not have features/bug fixes, just basically maps and scenarios?
Thanks for a really good product here, anyway!
Ron

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Peter,

Yes, yes and no. Our private Panther Dev Forum and Bug Tracker sites are very busy at the moment as we try to address these issues.

Miquel has written some code to log the fire data so we can get to the bottom of the M8 issue. We've got some preliminary data coming in but will need more. So far I can tell you that we have narrowed things down to a number of areas but we need more testing to hit the nail on the head.

As to the supply issues. I have already finished a couple of these but I am in the middle of writing some code that will store a Resupply History for each unit. I need this so I can write some code to prevent the sending of supply runs to units where previous runs have met a bad fate. I've finished the basic coding to store the history but I have yet to do the code that uses this and prevents the runs. Once I have that done I will then review the code that inflicts casualties on the supply vehicles.

So yes we are busy on these. Please be patient and do not get alarmed if you do not hear back from us for two weeks. There's a lot to do.

While I am at it I would like to point out to everyone reading this that addressing these issues takes a lot of time and effort. We cannot continue to put this amount of effort in without getting some remuneration for it. There are some who would argue that you can't charge for bug fixing. And in part I am sympathetic to that viewpoint. But there comes a point when the additional effort cannot be economically justified, especially when it involves adding what are in part new features, as with this Resupply History. That point has long since been passed on this title.

This next patch will be free but it will be the last for BFTB or what we now refer to as Command Ops 1. From then on we will be working on Command Ops 2. If there is a perceived shortcoming in any area you can raise it and we'll try and address it as part of Command Ops 2. Note that the new engine will be able to run your earlier Command Ops 1 scenarios. Don't ask me about when Command Ops 2 will be out. I just don't know at this stage.

[wodin]

Sounds good to me Dave. Been wanting you to move on for abit now.

[Phoenix100]

Thanks Dave. I knew you didn't need a salacious subject heading to get you to reply....[:'(]

I'm happy to pay for patches, by the way. No probs. I know that's not what you suggested, but I certainly would pay for the new supply features. Others might not be so keen, of course. These pricing arguments seem to get very vicious, even though, as others also keep pointing out, the time spent on Command Ops, compared, for example, to eating out, with a bottle of wine, with the costs/time involved/returns for each compared, makes it all seem ridiculous. But, I've said before that I'd happily pay more. It's the only game I play regularly.

Thanks for working on these issues. Very much appreciated.

I too am interested in the med pack and ready to buy it (that will be a bit of cash, at least, when you release it), though the patch interests me more right now because I'd like to et get back to the airborne HTTR scenarios.

A propos of the supply issue, I noticed when playing Manhay Crossroads last night that most of my front line (Axis) units were as usual cut-off (I surrendered to check), through two scheduled re-supply events, plus several emergency requests. The avoidance routing, when I checked, ran very close to Allied control, looked very poor. But I didn't get a single interdiction message in 15 hours!!!! I couldn't believe it.

[Arjuna]

I'll get onto the Med Pack once the patch is out. So much to do, so little time.[:)]

[wodin]

Pheonix..asking money for patches is the route for mass complaining and not good for Panthers reputation I feel. I'd rather he move onto CO2 and start to implement things we'd like in CO in a brand new game. We really can't complain about the support for COBFTB..but I honestly think it's coming time to move on as we'll see an even better CO game with CO2..Otherwise you could go on for years yet tweaking and improving but I think as long as the game is playable with no game breaking issues it should be put aside so they can concentrate on doing the new game. It's been a few years now since a big release for Panther.

[VilleYrjola]

I really like the way you're planning thigs Dave. Too many companies push out just a few minor bug fixes out and then abandon the title and move on to sequel. I can understand that a small business like you must at some point move on and make money. I am especially impressed that you have decided to make CO2 in such a way that it supports CO1 scenarios. Kudos to you.

[BigDuke66]

No offense but I would finally like to see CO1 in a state that can be played without stumbling over things that considerably disturb the gameplay.

My story is that I bought it in early 2011 and just played 1 or 2 scenarios as at that time at least one major bug(movement related I think, can't remember) disturbed gameplay, that was thought to be solved with the patch v4.2.248 from December 2011 but it wasn't, thru 2012 not much did move because of the immigration to new development tools that cause problems and delayed a new beta till Christmas 2012 and from that on I was doing just tests on every new beta version to report any problems I found, patch related we had also a lot delay because of the team not being able to work on it because of time and personal problems, so to sum it up I still wait to "just play the game".

I don't blame anyone, that's just the view from my perspective, compared to Dave's view from a business perspective.
So on a money perspective, I still wait to get the bang out of my bucks AND to throw more at it as I delayed my buying of the Greece pack till we have a solid environment to play it in.

So if this should be that last patch I really hope its more or less bullet proof as that will at least for me decided how to support the CO line further.

BTW paying for Patches = NO, paying for expansions = YES, paying for new engine = OF COURSE.

[wodin]

BigDuke I really don't think the game is in a state it's unplayable..once the supply and this combat issue is sorted I think it's in a good enough state to be left alone and for Dave to move on.

AT times it felt that people where minutely testing every little aspect of the game which was then throwing up issues that I'd probably have never noticed. Now it's time to get these two things sorted and for it to be retired. Anything people think could be improved or changed can then be suggested for the next game.

[Werewolf13]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

I'll get onto the Med Pack once the patch is out. So much to do, so little time.[:)]

Good!

Here's how much I'd like to see some Italian campaign battles done up using the Command Ops system.

I've never payed more than $60 for a PC game since I started playing PC games in 1979. I want the latest Naval/Air Ops
game Matrix recently published so bad I can taste it. But I refuse to pay what they're asking.

But I'd pay $69 or even $79 for an Italian Campaign CO - especially if it has all the 2.0 features that have been mentioned.

[BigDuke66]

@wodin
Sure as soon as THAT is sorted out, currently the defend order bug keeps the defending side fighting with one arm behind the back and the supply problem does his part to cause more than enough problems.
And sure any improvements can be done for the next engine but fixes simply not.

[wodin]

Didn't know about this defend bug..care to explain whats happening?

As I said anything obvious needs to be sorted so the game plays how it should with it's current features\mechanics. The thing is the game has been regularly patched for over three years now and things are always cropping up..and no game will ever be bug free. At some point a line has to be drawn. Game breaking bugs to be fixed I think and thats it no more tweaking current features that aren't actually broken but with time could be improved I say leave it alone, improve it for the next game in the series, otherwise you'd go on forever.

[Phoenix100]

This seems like a familiar discussion, Wodin.....[;)]

The defend bug BigDuke is referring to is probably the double orders delay incurred on a defend order. Dave has fixed it, I believe (for the next patch). It was an irritating bug. There were ways of getting round it though. There's no way of getting round the supply issues though, and as far as the longer content is concerned - the large scenarios - it does tend to end them prematurely! there are many scenarios you can play without noticing it too much though. The armour issues - hard-to-kill halftracks or Panther-busting armoured cars have all been 'discovered' by fans of this game playing the game really carefully and using its features to the max. I wouldn't characterise their efforts (and I've done some of it myself, but not half as thoroughly as others) as you have. I'm very grateful to them for doing the testing. And I'm glad Dave and the devs take it seriously. I know you're keen to get to an EF game, Wodin, but discovering bugs only improves things. And everything discovered and put right now IS development for CO2. There's not really a hard line there, I would have thought. the new engine is built on the old, surely?
Ah. I seem to recall this discussion not so long ago, in these exact terms....

[BigDuke66]

@wodin
Check out:
tm.asp?m=3368151

Good news is that Dave reported that problem as fixed, so supply seems left as a bigger thing that(at least I guess so) will be fixed for the next beta.
I'm really looking forward to this as we may have a finally Patch candidate with it, on the other hand the supply issue seems to bring some new code into the game, obviously a potential point of more troubles.
Well we will see how this ends.

[wodin]

Yeah and how long ago was that discussion. I'm grateful for all the players efforts in testing the game..I am, I apologise if it sounded like I wasn't. I just think there comes a time a game needs to be finished. Once these bugs are fixed the next game needs to be started..as Dave said it also comes down to money. You may be willing to pay for a patch..but I warn you now there would be a whole heap of sh1t hitting the fan if that happens and it just wouldn't be worth the bad rep Panther would get.

I think if it was down to you Dave would still be tweaking this game for another three years;)

Anyway it looks like it's been decided patch, Med, prob another patch after that then move on.

ORIGINAL: phoenix

This seems like a familiar discussion, Wodin.....[;)]

The defend bug BigDuke is referring to is probably the double orders delay incurred on a defend order. Dave has fixed it, I believe (for the next patch). It was an irritating bug. There were ways of getting round it though. There's no way of getting round the supply issues though, and as far as the longer content is concerned - the large scenarios - it does tend to end them prematurely! there are many scenarios you can play without noticing it too much though. The armour issues - hard-to-kill halftracks or Panther-busting armoured cars have all been 'discovered' by fans of this game playing the game really carefully and using its features to the max. I wouldn't characterise their efforts (and I've done some of it myself, but not half as thoroughly as others) as you have. I'm very grateful to them for doing the testing. And I'm glad Dave and the devs take it seriously. I know you're keen to get to an EF game, Wodin, but discovering bugs only improves things. And everything discovered and put right now IS development for CO2. There's not really a hard line there, I would have thought. the new engine is built on the old, surely?
Ah. I seem to recall this discussion not so long ago, in these exact terms....

[Phoenix100]

It wasn't that long ago. Honest.... We can have it again in three years time....[:)]

[wodin]

[:D] Love you;)