Question about missile allocation?

[GBS]

Four enemy missile boats have been identified and are within range of my Harpoons. I order attack "auto" and designate the four ship group as the target by dragging a box. My ship launches 8 harpoons, all at one enemy ship. Cant the AI (on auto attack) designate 2 harpoons on each of the enemy ship or does the player have to micromanage that?

[CaptCarnage]

ORIGINAL: GBS

Four enemy missile boats have been identified and are within range of my Harpoons. I order attack "auto" and designate the four ship group as the target by dragging a box. My ship launches 8 harpoons, all at one enemy ship. Cant the AI (on auto attack) designate 2 harpoons on each of the enemy ship or does the player have to micromanage that?

Make a Strike Mission and make sure all the targets are in that mission. If you don't like micromanaging (as indicated in previous post) then don't

To my knowledge you cannot drag a box around a group of targets to select them all.

[GBS]

OK. Thanks.

[Russian Heel]

Worst case of this happening to me was in the Tiger and the Dragon scenario and I was India and did not have it set to no AI attacks - there is this Chinese intel boat in sight of the Indian carrier group, its a fishing trawler or something, after hostilities initiate I mark it hostile and plan to take it with gunfire... every ship In range opened up with full salvos of SSMs. At a fishing trawler. An unknown number of Chinese combatants to our north east and we pump 20 SSMs at a fishing trawler. An F'in fishing trawler. I rage quit and never again have I allowed the AI to do anything.

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: Skyhigh
To my knowledge you cannot drag a box around a group of targets to select them all.

Sure ya can. Just do a manual attack.

[GBS]

Yeah that's another good example. Great game but far from perfect.

[GBS]

ORIGINAL: CV32

ORIGINAL: Skyhigh
To my knowledge you cannot drag a box around a group of targets to select them all.

Sure ya can. Just do a manual attack.

Yes I know. I want to be commander of the fleet and order that those ships be taken out. I dont want to be commander of the fire director. I want to be his boss.[:)]

[ExMachina]

ORIGINAL: Russian Heel

Worst case of this happening to me was in the Tiger and the Dragon scenario and I was India and did not have it set to no AI attacks - there is this Chinese intel boat in sight of the Indian carrier group, its a fishing trawler or something, after hostilities initiate I mark it hostile and plan to take it with gunfire... every ship In range opened up with full salvos of SSMs. At a fishing trawler. An unknown number of Chinese combatants to our north east and we pump 20 SSMs at a fishing trawler. An F'in fishing trawler. I rage quit and never again have I allowed the AI to do anything.

Haha, been there seen that! [:D] It's basically a scenario killer for me.

I try to remember to turn off AI attacks for all my units but not only is this tedious (I usually miss a unit), having absolutely zero AI assistance cuts out a lot of AI behavior that I would still like to have (engaging incoming SAMs for example).

[Russian Heel]

ORIGINAL: ExMachina

having absolutely zero AI assistance cuts out a lot of AI behavior that I would still like to have (engaging incoming SSMs for example).

And there is the rub. There is some really good AI and AI that just does some plain silly things like the inappropriate response to the type of threat and no logic in fire control. I'm not worried that it will get worked out. It just makes me avoid certain scenarios.

[Dimitris]

Have you precisely identified the class of every one of the targets?

If not, how does the AI know how many missiles to allocate per target, other than its (currently implemented) logic of "throw many missiles at large contacts, fewer missiles at small contacts"?

Or should the AI cheat and automagically know the defensive strength of this and that blip on the radar and assign missiles accordingly? (cf: Harpoon).

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: Russian Heel
Worst case of this happening to me was in the Tiger and the Dragon scenario and I was India and did not have it set to no AI attacks - there is this Chinese intel boat in sight of the Indian carrier group, its a fishing trawler or something, after hostilities initiate I mark it hostile and plan to take it with gunfire... every ship In range opened up with full salvos of SSMs. At a fishing trawler. An unknown number of Chinese combatants to our north east and we pump 20 SSMs at a fishing trawler. An F'in fishing trawler. I rage quit and never again have I allowed the AI to do anything.

Before or after "rage-quitting" (whatever that means, I guess I'm too old for this slang), did you post this as a potential bug together with a save file?

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: Skyhigh

ORIGINAL: GBS

Four enemy missile boats have been identified and are within range of my Harpoons. I order attack "auto" and designate the four ship group as the target by dragging a box. My ship launches 8 harpoons, all at one enemy ship. Cant the AI (on auto attack) designate 2 harpoons on each of the enemy ship or does the player have to micromanage that?

Make a Strike Mission and make sure all the targets are in that mission. If you don't like micromanaging (as indicated in previous post) then don't

To my knowledge you cannot drag a box around a group of targets to select them all.

You can, both for auto-attack and for manual attack.

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn
Have you precisely identified the class of every one of the targets? If not, how does the AI know how many missiles to allocate per target, other than its (currently implemented) logic of "throw many missiles at large contacts, fewer missiles at small contacts"? Or should the AI cheat and automagically know the defensive strength of this and that blip on the radar and assign missiles accordingly? (cf: Harpoon).

I had a long reply on this thread that timed out on me. In any case, it was much the same as this.

Weaponeering in sims like these is very situation-sensitive and user-specific.

[Dimitris]

Agreed, very much so.

[Russian Heel]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

ORIGINAL: Russian Heel
Worst case of this happening to me was in the Tiger and the Dragon scenario and I was India and did not have it set to no AI attacks - there is this Chinese intel boat in sight of the Indian carrier group, its a fishing trawler or something, after hostilities initiate I mark it hostile and plan to take it with gunfire... every ship In range opened up with full salvos of SSMs. At a fishing trawler. An unknown number of Chinese combatants to our north east and we pump 20 SSMs at a fishing trawler. An F'in fishing trawler. I rage quit and never again have I allowed the AI to do anything.

Before or after "rage-quitting" (whatever that means, I guess I'm too old for this slang), did you do something useful such as posting this as a potential bug together with a save file?

I don't understand why you are getting hostile with me, I simply stated my experience. If you want to recreate it you don't need a save file. Start "The Tiger and the Dragon" Select the Indian side. Start time. Mark the Chinese Spy Trawler hostile. Wait. Very soon you will have 6 missiles in the air, more often than not the first one or two miss, which leads to an immediate re-engagement launch from the platform that fired the missile that missed. It happens 100% of the time that all ships launch salvos of SSMs if they are in range as soon as it is marked hostile.

Also, as for telling me to make myself useful? I actually tried to help and spent a good 90 minutes going through my Russian language sources and searching the runet for mikmyk's 'Research Challenge' found some information, was the only one that posted anything and was promptly ignored.

tm.asp?m=3452753

[Dimitris]

You're right, it's been a long week and I'm exhausted. My bad.

[ExMachina]

I've mentioned this as a posible solution before but never got any response so I'll float it again....

Just like the EMCON tab on the RoE menu, add a AI AUto Attack tab where the player (or scenario designer) can specify the amount of targeting/firing autonomy he wants to give the AI during allocating weapons during Auto engagements. The basic idea would be that for any friendly unit,group, or whole side the player can specify the types of engagements (AAW, ASW, ASuW) that he wants the AI to first ask "clearance" for before preforming.

So in the example of the fishing trawler, let's say the player has set the side's ASuW engagements allocation to "Player Discretion"--then when the trawler gets marked hostile, instead of all the missiles going off at once, the AI pops up a weapons allocation menu with what the AI wants to shoot. The player can then adjust (or not) and hit "Continue".

This is not a polished concept but it could probably be implemented with little impact upon those who don't want it. And it wouldn't encumber the AI with making complex judgment calls.

[CV32]

ORIGINAL: ExMachina
I've mentioned this as a posible solution before but never got any response so I'll float it again.... Just like the EMCON tab on the RoE menu, add a AI AUto Attack tab where the player (or scenario designer) can specify the amount of targeting/firing autonomy he wants to give the AI during allocating weapons during Auto engagements. The basic idea would be that for any friendly unit,group, or whole side the player can specify the types of engagements (AAW, ASW, ASuW) that he wants the AI to first ask "clearance" for before preforming. So in the example of the fishing trawler, let's say the player has set the side's ASuW engagements allocation to "Player Discretion"--then when the trawler gets marked hostile, instead of all the missiles going off at once, the AI pops up a weapons allocation menu with what the AI wants to shoot. The player can then adjust (or not) and hit "Continue". This is not a polished concept but it could probably be implemented with little impact upon those who don't want it. And it wouldn't encumber the AI with making complex judgment calls.

I appreciate what you're driving at, and I'm pretty familiar with it (its more or less the method adopted by HCE) but isn't this really just another version of micromanagement?

[ExMachina]

ORIGINAL: CV32
I appreciate what you're driving at, and I'm pretty familiar with it (its more or less the method adopted by HCE) but isn't this really just another version of micromanagement?

I never played Harpoon CE so didn't know I was reinventing the wheel [;)]

And yeah sure, it's still micromanagment but it would represent signifigantly less micro management than is involved with the current solution (completely turning off the AI Auto targeting). And it would be relatively straightforward to implement under the current U/I, would not require an AI adjustment and could be completely ignored if one didn't care for it.

[#Grumble]

ORIGINAL: CV32
I had a long reply on this thread that timed out on me. In any case, it was much the same as this.

BTW. If T.O. you can,
Right click in the T.O. popup > Back > Copy post > Close
Start new reply > Paste > pheew.