mysteries of Pandora - rule questions

[lparkh]

See Obligatory First impressions threads for pros and cons but one con is lack of documentation. I am starting this thread for questions about things not clear in game.
Mine so far:
-- pollution -- how does it happen, how do I track it
-- xenomorph pheropod -- this device converts aliens. Very cool. But how do I use it? Do I "Kill" an alien in combat? Not that easy to do since -25% attack power (and I'm ecoboy so even more minuses to attack). So can't really test that theory right now!
--efficiency -- a measure given in combat estimates. What the heck does it mean?

[lparkh]

Ok I just figured out the compendium (civolopedia like button ) can bet tuned to different topics by picking the top 'button' (wasn't too obvious it was a button). So there is more info there (certainly more than in the manual). Still looks skimpy but shall see.

[balto]

Already addictive - 5 hours. That does not mean it is good because it is too early to tell, but already for $30 (or whatever it was), kind of already paid for itself, at least that is how I see it. I am sure in several days, posts will up about if its good or not.

Agree that I too cannot figure out pollution nor the combat factors.

The compendium does not say anything about terrain factors on combat. Because I cannot understand the combat factors, who know if terrain affect anything or not.

I also am slightly unclear on the Growth vs Food thing (which is hugely important in a 4x game). I imagine I will get it eventually, but without the manual - kind of vague.

[lparkh]

Victory Conditions --
Probably being dense here but the popup on this one (or was it the civopedia) references looking for more details on the conditions for victory in the military, science etc tabs. So I did so. I can find anything.
So at the moment I have no idea how to win (except presumably be the highest level in science and conquer everyone).
Please point me to where the documentation is.

[willgamer]

ORIGINAL: lparkh

Victory Conditions --
Probably being dense here but the popup on this one (or was it the civopedia) references looking for more details on the conditions for victory in the military, science etc tabs. So I did so. I can find anything.
So at the moment I have no idea how to win (except presumably be the highest level in science and conquer everyone).
Please point me to where the documentation is.

On the main screen, mouse over the tabs at the bottom of the screen that take you to the military, economics, or diplomacy sub screens and it shows your progress toward each type of victory.

[balto]

Not sure where to put this, but we need a question thread because there are just too many questions about this game. I am now on about 8 hours and I have about 900 on CIV 5, so I know the basics.

I cannot figure out what the growth and the food tie in. It just does not make sense to me. You would think food is tied to growth, but I do not see it. We need to have this essential component explained.

The aliens are all over me and not the AI. And AI is building cities like crazy.., it is super unbalanced and I am on the mid-level setting (I think it is called NORMAL setting). IN CIV 5, the AI cheats but you know what they are.., on this.., you really do not know anything about anything.

Combat.. as stated, I do not get it. I see the variables but that needs an explanation because they are not doing what they appear to be saying what they are doing. The Odds of Victory are really messed up. Try attacking one of those 8.0 flying monsters with a big stack. The stack wins but the odds say 0% change of victory.., It takes no account of the entire stack hitting it.

The beta team on this missed some really obvious stuff that jumps out at you in the first 5-10 minutes. Pandora is not bugged, it just needs some experienced gamers looking at it because the problems it has are so obvious (no manual, no clear explanation of the FOOD/GROWTH, incorrect combat predictors).

I am going to lay off this until next weekend, it is just too frustrating. I can tell there is something good here, it just needs some polishing.

[robc04_1]

balto - There is just some normal growth factor that occurs in each city, which can be increased if people migrate from other cities to this one, or decreased if people migrate out. Whether people move into or out of a city is based on available housing (and maybe morale?). As your faction's population grows, the amount of growth that must accumulate before the next increase goes up. That target amount is the same in each city. Each person in the faction consumes 1 food, taken from the global stockpile. This doesn't have any affect on the growth rate, but if there isn't enough food, people will starve (never happened to me yet so I don;t know the specifics).

As far as combat...
There are different types of units (mechanical / biological, light / heavy, airborne, etc). Some weapons perform better than others against certain unit types. As for the numbers, everything is based off of the power rating. For example the colonial trooper has a base power of 2. If they are equipped with the L-15 Lance Gun (automatic weapon), the base power remains unchanged since that weapon doesn't modify the base power. But if they attack a biological unit, they get a 25% boost to 2.5. If they attack a mechanical unit they get a .25% penalty. If they equip the hellfire Flamethrower they get a 25% boost to their base power to 2.5 because that weapon has a power modifier of + 25%. Also for that weapon there is an additional +50% bonus vs biological units, a 50% penelty vs mechanical units and a 25% penalty vs airborne units.

Armor adds to the base power of the unit too, but there are certain weapons that not utilize that power when they attack. If a unit is equipped with an artillery weapon, the tooltip for that states it doesn't use the armor power when attacking. Devices can also give a boost to power in some circumstances. There are some other things that can modify a units power and they are listed in the combat odds window.

Even if you have a stack selected, combat is handled 1 unit at a time. So if the combat odds are listed at 0%, it means that whatever unit will attack first has a 0% chance of winning. Now if you keep attacking with each unit 1 after another you may eventually beat the creature.

The tooltips explain a lot, and some of the beginner hint windows help too, but the developers dropped the ball big time as far as the manual goes and their in game encyclopedia is lacking too. Really, a manual for a strategy game should explain the mechanics. There are things that I can't think of off hand at the moment that just aren't covered anywhere. I hope some of this helps. It's what I learned from completing a full game and checking the tooltips on stuff.

[balto]

Hi rodc04,

I know you are trying to help, but you have not, at all.

The growth factor. What are you really saying in that paragraph? Are you saying that people automatically migrate from city to city? And the growth, are you saying that no matter what happens, cities grow at the same fixed rate? If that is correct, you realize that makes no sense.

Combat, come on, of course I know what you are saying. The combat system should identify the possible amount of damage each unit in the stack will do.., not just 0% chance of a kill. Why in the heck would a designer do it like that? It is of no use in its present state.

Armor, come on, of course I get that.

The 0% thing, read my above - that is a senseless design issue.

The tooltips do not explain a lot. In fact, they only explain the obvious.

I know you are trying to help - but why would you address my questions with just jibberish?

[FroBodine]

Oh boy, here we go again. Another Matrix game that has poor documentation. This time, they have not just a poor manual, but no manual at all.

Please, strategy games are complex. Give us consumers a fighting chance to learn your games that you have been playing for years and already understand.

We do not understand them, and require a detailed manual explaining everything. At least I do. I speak for myself, and am getting tired of less than satisfactorily documented wargames.

[NavalNewZ]

Good thread, and the reason why I haven't bought this game. Even though I'm a fan of the Civ series and am interested in the topic, I've also learned that hidden information and poor documentation make me frustrated and lose interest in games.

[SephiRok]

I've made a new thread for such questions: tm.asp?m=3469823

Cheers,

[robc04_1]

ORIGINAL: balto

The growth factor. What are you really saying in that paragraph? Are you saying that people automatically migrate from city to city? And the growth, are you saying that no matter what happens, cities grow at the same fixed rate? If that is correct, you realize that makes no sense.

Combat, come on, of course I know what you are saying. The combat system should identify the possible amount of damage each unit in the stack will do.., not just 0% chance of a kill. Why in the heck would a designer do it like that? It is of no use in its present state.

Armor, come on, of course I get that.

The 0% thing, read my above - that is a senseless design issue.

The tooltips do not explain a lot. In fact, they only explain the obvious.

I know you are trying to help - but why would you address my questions with just jibberish?

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to answer your post since someone obviously spiked your coffee with a%&hole juice. When someone tries to help you, why would you just call their answer gibberish? That's polite.

Yes, that is what I'm saying about growth. There is a natural growth rate that we have no control over. It is based on the current population. The city gets 1 point of growth for each point of population it currently has, so big cities grow faster. Is that clear enough, or is that gibberish? And yes population migrates between cities on their own, based on morale. They move from places of lower morale to those of higher morale. You can write to the developers if you don't think it makes sense because that is how it works.

As I said the combat window only shows the estimated results for 1 unit vs 1 unit, not for multiple selected units. If the victory chance says 0%, it is because the 1 unit that is attacking has a 0% chance to kill the enemy. It does have the estimated casualties (damage) listed above the two units. The one that is labeled with 100% estimated casualties is estimated to die, the other once shows the % of health it is expected to lose. If you don't like that the combat window only works on a 1 vs 1 basis than post a suggestion to the developer. I haven't had any problem using it how it is, although it would be nice to show the combat results for multiple selected units.

From your post I couldn't tell if you had any clue as to how armor (or the power rating) worked at all. Based on your other questions it didn't seem like you understood much about it.

[SephiRok]

For reference, robc04's explanations are correct.

[bbmike]

ORIGINAL: SephiRok

For reference, robc04's explanations are correct.

AND helpful.

[balto]

Now that SephiRok (moderator) has confirmed that robc04’s explanation for growth is correct, let put rodc04/SephiRok’s statement in writing so that the entire forum can see clearly how you both interpret how growth works, per rodc04’s post (and SephiRok’s confirmation).

1) Growth RATE is based on current population.
2) We have no control over growth RATE.
3) City gets one point of growth for population.
4) Big cities GROW faster.
5) Population migrates based on Morale.


1) [Growth RATE is based on current population.] So if you see 8 growth does that mean you have 8 population? That is how I interpret the rodc04 statement “It is based on the current population.” If I have ratio of 8 growth to 8 pop incorrect, please let me know what the ratio is.

2) [We have no control over growth RATE.] There is no building or no wonder or any practice we can do that would influence growth rate. Only population #’s influence growth.

3) [City gets one point of growth for population] So population equals growth. 8 population, 8 growth.., 20 population, 20 growth.

4) [Big cities GROW faster] So the math behind this is that as you get more population, it grows more rapidly. Interesting. Is there a ratio there?

5) [Population migrates based on Morale] Okay, so if you have six cities and one has high morale, it gets the other five sending citizens to it. Is there some sort of ratio behind this?


Realize that if the above is not correct, I would like SephiRok to apologize and I would like rodc04 to drink a gallon of what he asked me to drink.

I do this to promote clarity, so how about some true details this time and not just slams from forum goers and moderators supporting unclear vague statements by other posters on a game with no manual.

[FroBodine]

I can't wait to see how this turns out. All this would be avoided if there was an actual game manual that explained how to play the game, and what everything meant.

[mikeCK]

ORIGINAL: NavalNewZ

Good thread, and the reason why I haven't bought this game. Even though I'm a fan of the Civ series and am interested in the topic, I've also learned that hidden information and poor documentation make me frustrated and lose interest in games.

Well your missing out on a great game then! I've been beating the drums pretty loud on the lack of documentation but it isn't THAT big of a deal. Are you really going to not purchase a fantastic game because it doesn't have a manual?