Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

[veji1]

bah the situation is different, he is on the winning side. AE represents an intenste commitment for a long period of time, that interest might wane at some point is normal.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: veji1

bah the situation is different, he is on the winning side. AE represents an intenste commitment for a long period of time, that interest might wane at some point is normal.

True that.

[khyberbill]

I recall that happening as I was following an AAR.

[leehunt27@bloomberg.net]

Trying to think of strategies to counter the Allies while falling asleep helps me keep the interest up-- and being in a different time zone where you look forward to the "morning" turn each day helps too.

And reading WWII history books and noticing, "hey wait, how did I let the Allies threaten Mandalay in early 1943 when they didn't get there till much later historically..."

[GreyJoy]

We did two more turns. Hopefully Brad just had some email problems

Feb 28-29, March 1, 1944

Well, some mixed turns for the Empire.

Between Feb 28 and 29 the allies moved a CV/CVE TF up to Sorong...completely unseen...
I had several transport TFs evacuating fragments from Biak area to Bab...
The allies did attack at night with their SDBs...sinking a couple of already damaged xAPs...
Then, when the day arrived, some 150 TBFs and SDBs attacked my SAGs near Biak... but found my brave CAP!
We downed nearly 100 enemy bombers!
More bombers kept on attacking my transports on the open ocean and sunk 10 more of them, along with several hundreds men inside them

The next day, the KB and the LBA tried to retaliate
Didn't go as planned.
Half of my KB planes (from Ternate) didn't launch.
Mixed results... the LBA did a decent job tough...sweeps from Sorong to Misol and more bombers following...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Misool at 80,108

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 59 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2 Jill x 27
N1K2-J George x 25
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 42

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 12
P-40K Warhawk x 13
F6F-3 Hellcat x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2 Jill: 5 destroyed, 5 damaged
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 6 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
DD Thatcher
DD Abner Read
DD Carmick
DD Stevens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Misool , at 80,108

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 59 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 28

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 10
P-40K Warhawk x 7
F6F-3 Hellcat x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38H Lightning: 2 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 4 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Misool , at 80,108

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 51

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 3
P-40K Warhawk x 1
F6F-3 Hellcat x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-38H Lightning: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Misool at 80,108 *from KB near Ternate...(

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 91
B7A2 Grace x 8
D4Y4 Judy x 25

Allied aircraft
P-38H Lightning x 1
F6F-3 Hellcat x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y4 Judy: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38H Lightning: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Racehorse
xAK Jacques Laramie, Torpedo hits 1
AM Dynamic, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Duntroon, Bomb hits 3, on fire
xAK Cape Constance, Bomb hits 1
DD Balch
SC-637
xAP Cleveland Abbe, Bomb hits 2, on fire
xAK Californian, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
87 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Misool at 80,108

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 7
D4Y4 Judy x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y4 Judy: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Welles, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CL Caradoc, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Misool at 79,108

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 13

Allied aircraft
FM-1 Wildcat x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 5 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AM Champion
xAK Tarifa, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
497 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 27 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 7 (6 destroyed, 1 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Misool at 80,108

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2 Jill x 18
N1K2-J George x 25
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 20

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 2
F6F-3 Hellcat x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2 Jill: 7 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Abner Read
DD Stevens
DD Nicholson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Misool at 80,108

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 97
B7A2 Grace x 28
D4Y4 Judy x 43

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 3 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Clark
SC-743
DD Welles, Bomb hits 6, and is sunk
xAP Cleveland Abbe, Bomb hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
SC-983
AK Draco, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Caradoc, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP William Kent, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Balch
SC-744, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
SC-637

Allied ground losses:
336 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 27 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Misool at 80,108

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y4 Judy x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
SC-984
xAP Duntroon, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Lorrain, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Misool at 79,108

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B7A2 Grace x 16

Allied aircraft
FM-1 Wildcat x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A2 Grace: 4 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
xAP Jalavihar
xAP Surada, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAP Ethiopia, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
4130 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 226 destroyed, 57 disabled
Engineers: 15 destroyed, 16 disabled
Guns lost 28 (28 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 34 (34 destroyed, 0 disabled)





Not bad i would say.

The CVs retreated South tough....


Then the allies, after a HUGE air bombardment, attacked Ramree Island and Namlea, conquering the latter


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Namlea (76,108)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 17408 troops, 223 guns, 247 vehicles, Assault Value = 572

Defending force 2146 troops, 27 guns, 9 vehicles, Assault Value = 9

Allied adjusted assault: 230

Japanese adjusted defense: 17

Allied assault odds: 13 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Namlea !!!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 5 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 2 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker: fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
701 casualties reported
Squads: 52 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 7 (7 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (6 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
4th Marine Division
1st Army Tank Regiment
25th Infantry/C Division

Defending units:
Yokosuka 4th SNLF
Ankei SNLF /1
69th JAAF AF Bn


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Ramree Island (54,48)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 32137 troops, 612 guns, 777 vehicles, Assault Value = 1367

Defending force 13611 troops, 145 guns, 9 vehicles, Assault Value = 375

Allied adjusted assault: 1705

Japanese adjusted defense: 547

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
734 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 140 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 12 (2 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
489 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 56 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled

Assaulting units:
23rd Indian Division
150th RAC Regiment
268th Motorised Brigade
20th Indian Division
Provisionl Tank Brigade
25th Indian/A Division
XXXIII Indian Corps

Defending units:
41st Infantry Regiment
21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
55th/B Division
5th Mortar Battalion




Ramree Is. is about to fall... and Burma is at danger


The retreat continues from Koepang.
We managed to extract 400 AVs from Saumlaki [:D] and nearly 500 from Timor[;)]

Several of my transports are intercepted over Sarmi...[:o]

With the 1st of March 1944 several of my air groups are due to withdraw.... now i need to reorganize most of my air defences

[GreyJoy]

However the next defensive line is taking shape. We're using all the Mavis-Emilies and transports we can to redeploy fast.
The unvaluable PBs (6000 endurance) are doing a great job too. Obviously supplies are somewhat short everywhere, but i think Brad will find a tough nut to crack as soon as he decides to advance a bit North.

Now we're also redeploying in Burma. Think it's time to think about a withrawal...but i don't see any decent defensive line once the plains are in allied dirty hands... mmmm.....

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


Thx Pax. Well, NB is really overpowered imho. And Brad thinks along the same lines.
Also, we've avoided it till now, so a change in the HR won't be doable now (i have planned all my production and R&D on that HR and also my strategic distributions of AA units).

I agree, but as you know it is not unanimous at all .... you are fortunate to have found an opponent to agree ...

Yes, cannot agree more. Brad has been the perfect opponent, in every possible meaning!


However as soon as Brad will be in B29 range of Japan, he will be able to night bomb. So we'll see the same outcomes we're seeing in Joc-Obvert's game

It is just to overpowered. I think even allowing B29s to night bomb Japanese targets in Japan is a mistake. It is just too easy. Ark and I have limited it very much and although bombing Japan is tougher, it makes for a better game as I have had to approach a lot closer to the home islands in order to have bases in secure fighter range. This in itself promised a tighter longer lasting game which is not a bad thing. We are in mid 45 and I have just seized Korea and am building large air bases there. But if I had the ability to bomb Japan at night, the game would have ended six months ago when I seized Formosa.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: crsutton
It is just to overpowered. I think even allowing B29s to night bomb Japanese targets in Japan is a mistake. It is just too easy. Ark and I have limited it very much and although bombing Japan is tougher, it makes for a better game as I have had to approach a lot closer to the home islands in order to have bases in secure fighter range. This in itself promised a tighter longer lasting game which is not a bad thing. We are in mid 45 and I have just seized Korea and am building large air bases there. But if I had the ability to bomb Japan at night, the game would have ended six months ago when I seized Formosa.

Uhm, losing 0,5 B29s for each airborne NF is overpowered? Losing 20-30 days of replacement per strike is overpowered? Per strike!.

I don´t want to hijack GJs AAR but I disagree with precisely everything you just said. [:)] Look in my AAR for losses and results doing this "overpowered" night bombing campaign. The numbers are there in detail.

[paullus99]

Joc - I would agree. Looking at your losses so far, a sustained bombing campaign would fizzle out in about two weeks (tops) & left the USAAF without a single operable bomber on the map.....

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

However as soon as Brad will be in B29 range of Japan, he will be able to night bomb. So we'll see the same outcomes we're seeing in Joc-Obvert's game

It is just to overpowered. I think even allowing B29s to night bomb Japanese targets in Japan is a mistake. It is just too easy. Ark and I have limited it very much and although bombing Japan is tougher, it makes for a better game as I have had to approach a lot closer to the home islands in order to have bases in secure fighter range. This in itself promised a tighter longer lasting game which is not a bad thing. We are in mid 45 and I have just seized Korea and am building large air bases there. But if I had the ability to bomb Japan at night, the game would have ended six months ago when I seized Formosa.

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Uhm, losing 0,5 B29s for each airborne NF is overpowered? Losing 20-30 days of replacement per strike is overpowered? Per strike!.

I don´t want to hijack GJs AAR but I disagree with precisely everything you just said. [:)] Look in my AAR for losses and results doing this "overpowered" night bombing campaign. The numbers are there in detail.

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Joc - I would agree. Looking at your losses so far, a sustained bombing campaign would fizzle out in about two weeks (tops) & left the USAAF without a single operable bomber on the map.....

Thought I should chime in just for the other view. [;)]

Shouldn't we look at what has been accomplished in about two months of bombing vs what has been lost while doing it?

The US night bombing of Tokyo was by all accounts immensely devastating, and yet at the end of the war it was estimated that only about 50% of Tokyo's industrial capacity was destroyed by that campaign.

The bombing in our game has been happening for what, two months? Maybe 10 weeks? Since it began the Allies have knocked out just about half of the industrial capacity of Tokyo. The B-29s have also managed during this time to knock out nearly half of the industry in Osaka as well, and there is virtually no industry still producing outside the Home Islands due to night bombing B-29s. So, as with everything in the stock game, the extremes are there on both sides of the equation.

As to the losses, they are more than even I could have hoped for with the crappy continent of NF Japan can field, but for every B-29 lost they shoot down about 2 NF down as well. Pretty good shootin on both sides.

Only Jocke could answer this, but it's also possible that bombing twice a week is too much for the service 5 airframe, and a lot are being lost due to flying with some fatigue and damage. It would help explain why all of the planes that look to only be damaged in the replay are then lost as A to A, although I'm sure the distance is a problem too. It's interesting as a side note that my pilots are not getting the kills for these planes though they are listed as A to A.

Ours is a scenario 1 game, unlike GJ-Q here playing Babes. The decline caused by strategic bombing will be much quicker without refineries producing supply, and I'm sure Brad is aware of this and wants to continue the game with the challenge of a capable defense to bang against.

[witpqs]

Good post, Obvert.

A general observation regarding night bombing HR and B-29: A substantial production run of B-29 in the game is without almost no self-defense armament so as to be faster/carry a heavier bomb load specifically for night bombing. If you have that HR you should mod the scenario (not sure if that one can be done mid-game or not, maybe it can?).

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Thought I should chime in just for the other view. [;)]

Shouldn't we look at what has been accomplished in about two months of bombing vs what has been lost while doing it?

The US night bombing of Tokyo was by all accounts immensely devastating, and yet at the end of the war it was estimated that only about 50% of Tokyo's industrial capacity was destroyed by that campaign.

The bombing in our game has been happening for what, two months? Maybe 10 weeks? Since it began the Allies have knocked out just about half of the industrial capacity of Tokyo. The B-29s have also managed during this time to knock out nearly half of the industry in Osaka as well, and there is virtually no industry still producing outside the Home Islands due to night bombing B-29s. So, as with everything in the stock game, the extremes are there on both sides of the equation.

Obviously I can´t say very much here as you are reading. But the price for that has been heavy as you will notice eventually. The exakt numbers are in the AAR for anyone interested. Both damage done and not done including losses are there.

The B29 campaign outside the HI has been going on for a year and not two months. Also worth mentioning:

- The last 3 or 4 raids have caused almost no damage at all despite taking tremendous losses. Almost 3 months worth of replacements for no returns.

ORIGINAL: obvert
Only Jocke could answer this, but it's also possible that bombing twice a week is too much for the service 5 airframe, and a lot are being lost due to flying with some fatigue and damage. It would help explain why all of the planes that look to only be damaged in the replay are then lost as A to A, although I'm sure the distance is a problem too. It's interesting as a side note that my pilots are not getting the kills for these planes though they are listed as A to A.

I have not been flying twice a week. I have been flying once every 8-12 days since I stand down the B29 so they go into maintenance to repair plane fatigue. Obviously being SR5 planes they don´t repair fast enough to fly twice a week.

Strat bombing is of course integral in the game design or it wouldn´t be rewarded with VPs. If you don´t allow some kind of night strat bombing of the HI you remove a big piece of the VP puzzle and that is obviously going to upset a lot of things. I don´t want to hijack GJs AAR with a discussion about this. He and Q-ball is of course free to do what they want. I just want to point out at that I don´t agree one bit with the notion that Strat bombing at night from extended range is a "instawin button" and GJ is doomed by allowing this.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Good post, Obvert.

A general observation regarding night bombing HR and B-29: A substantial production run of B-29 in the game is without almost no self-defense armament so as to be faster/carry a heavier bomb load specifically for night bombing. If you have that HR you should mod the scenario (not sure if that one can be done mid-game or not, maybe it can?).

Speculation on my part. But I´m quite worried these B29 versions will be unusable in the game. Seeing what the NFs do against heavily armed B29s I think there is a real danger the unarmed version might suffer horrendous losses. I guess it comes down to how big a factor the defensive fire is.

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Good post, Obvert.

A general observation regarding night bombing HR and B-29: A substantial production run of B-29 in the game is without almost no self-defense armament so as to be faster/carry a heavier bomb load specifically for night bombing. If you have that HR you should mod the scenario (not sure if that one can be done mid-game or not, maybe it can?).

Speculation on my part. But I´m quite worried these B29 versions will be unusable in the game. Seeing what the NFs do against heavily armed B29s I think there is a real danger the unarmed version might suffer horrendous losses. I guess it comes down to how big a factor the defensive fire is.

With current HR i see some logic to change defense armament of nigh version of B-29,
but also adjust speed and range and bomb load to compensate armament change to make that plane day bomber. I believe it can be done by simple modification of database in editor and upgrading save to new version of it.
If noone have skill or guts to risk that something go wrong i think someone in mod froum can do that for them

To do that or not is another problem and it should be decided between GreyJoy and Q-Ball.

[GreyJoy]

Guys, you must have misunderstood my words.
our HR allows to night bomb Japan, but only Japan. So no night bombing in the DEI or China.
That was a compromise between our belief that the Night bombing is essentially borked (especially for what concerns Port, AF and specific industrial targets) and the necessity not to spoil the allies of one of their most important strategic weapon in their arsenal (B29s).
 
I find this compromise very well balanced.
 
The game goes on.
 
Mar 1-2, 1943
 
After yesterday air raids over Misol, the jap HQ decided to give a go for a naval strike.
A SAG composed of 1 CA, 1 Agano Class CL and 10 old DDs moved at night from Sorong and arrived at Misol.
Here they tangled with a DD TF, trading one DD for a ducth DD..., then fought against 2 PT TFs and finally reached the transports. 3 AKs, 3 AMs and 3 SCs are sunk. Not bad.
 
On the 2nd of March, from Mandalay and Rangoon 150 jap fighters (KI-84a/r, KI-44c and N1K2s) swept Akyab, finding 30 Spit VIIs. downed 20 spits for 10 Franks (2 KIA, 2 MIA). Wanted to keep Brad honest in Burma as much as I can.
 
Then the allies attacked Ramree Island again...this time conquering it and pushing out my exhausted units.
Now Burma is in real danger. The allies are squeezing it, from Ramree to Lashio, with several Indo-Chinese corps moving down to Chang-Mai... need to evacuate I fear... If he manages to land behind me i'll lose 300,000 men... I need to give priority to the strategical needs against tactical ones. Hate to lose Burma without fighting but I cannot really risk now.
 
The retreat from Southern DEI continues. More transports are ordered to lift back the 6th Guards Div from Lautem.
 
Supplies are scares everywhere... from Burma to the DEI all my bases are in yellow or red [:o]
 
No signs of the allied CVs... I bet he's now planning to open another front in Sumatra. All my reserves are already gathering at Singa, Palembang and Java.
The KB (what is left of it) lingers north of Menado...waiting for another opportunity
 
 
Ground combat at Ramree Island (54,48)
 
Allied Deliberate attack
 
Attacking force 31258 troops, 611 guns, 777 vehicles, Assault Value = 1239
 
Defending force 10853 troops, 136 guns, 7 vehicles, Assault Value = 144
 
Allied adjusted assault: 1578
 
Japanese adjusted defense: 249
 
Allied assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 2)
 
Allied forces CAPTURE Ramree Island !!!
 
Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), supply(-)
Attacker:
 
Japanese ground losses:
      4198 casualties reported
         Squads: 166 destroyed, 29 disabled
         Non Combat: 137 destroyed, 35 disabled
         Engineers: 17 destroyed, 0 disabled
      Guns lost 67 (62 destroyed, 5 disabled)
      Vehicles lost 8 (8 destroyed, 0 disabled)
      Units retreated 4
 
Allied ground losses:
      423 casualties reported
         Squads: 2 destroyed, 59 disabled
         Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
         Engineers: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled
 
Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
 
Assaulting units:
    268th Motorised Brigade
    20th Indian Division
    23rd Indian Division
    Provisionl Tank Brigade
    150th RAC Regiment
    25th Indian/A Division
    XXXIII Indian Corps
 
Defending units:
    21st Ind.Mixed Brigade
    55th/B Division
    5th Mortar Battalion
    41st Infantry Regiment
 

[GreyJoy]

A convoy with 80K supplies and 30k fuel reached Biak. This will probably be the last run in this area. It's getting harder and harder to defend these waters properly. Once unloaded the transports will bring back some troops in order to redeploy them in Luzon and Okinawa.
Another big 100k supplies convoy left Tokyo, heading for Mindanao. 80k supplies are now reaching Singapore and 20k Rangoon... never enough[:(]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: obvert

Thought I should chime in just for the other view. [;)]

Shouldn't we look at what has been accomplished in about two months of bombing vs what has been lost while doing it?

The US night bombing of Tokyo was by all accounts immensely devastating, and yet at the end of the war it was estimated that only about 50% of Tokyo's industrial capacity was destroyed by that campaign.

The bombing in our game has been happening for what, two months? Maybe 10 weeks? Since it began the Allies have knocked out just about half of the industrial capacity of Tokyo. The B-29s have also managed during this time to knock out nearly half of the industry in Osaka as well, and there is virtually no industry still producing outside the Home Islands due to night bombing B-29s. So, as with everything in the stock game, the extremes are there on both sides of the equation.

Obviously I can´t say very much here as you are reading. But the price for that has been heavy as you will notice eventually. The exakt numbers are in the AAR for anyone interested. Both damage done and not done including losses are there.

The B29 campaign outside the HI has been going on for a year and not two months. Also worth mentioning:

- The last 3 or 4 raids have caused almost no damage at all despite taking tremendous losses. Almost 3 months worth of replacements for no returns.

ORIGINAL: obvert
Only Jocke could answer this, but it's also possible that bombing twice a week is too much for the service 5 airframe, and a lot are being lost due to flying with some fatigue and damage. It would help explain why all of the planes that look to only be damaged in the replay are then lost as A to A, although I'm sure the distance is a problem too. It's interesting as a side note that my pilots are not getting the kills for these planes though they are listed as A to A.

I have not been flying twice a week. I have been flying once every 8-12 days since I stand down the B29 so they go into maintenance to repair plane fatigue. Obviously being SR5 planes they don´t repair fast enough to fly twice a week.

Strat bombing is of course integral in the game design or it wouldn´t be rewarded with VPs. If you don´t allow some kind of night strat bombing of the HI you remove a big piece of the VP puzzle and that is obviously going to upset a lot of things. I don´t want to hijack GJs AAR with a discussion about this. He and Q-ball is of course free to do what they want. I just want to point out at that I don´t agree one bit with the notion that Strat bombing at night from extended range is a "instawin button" and GJ is doomed by allowing this.

Jocke, I'm not saying you're misusing anything here! [:)] Just trying to get some objective info to players who have not used this stuff in the new beta. Hopefully what we're learning can be useful and players can make choices based on these results.

No one said anything about "instawins" with strat bombing, but it is quite effective in spite of losses. All I'm trying to show is that you've achieved quite a lot, and if your usage was as low as you note here that would be even more spectacular.

After looking through several of my notes on strat bombing I realize we're both a bit off in our perceptions. [;)]

Using the B-29-25 from the Marianas you've sent 10 missions to the HI from the first to Tokyo on 12/10/44 until the latest at Hiroshima on 2/11/45. So on average they were one mission every 6.4 days.

Using the B-29-1 you've been going a bit more frequently, with some gaps that perhaps are due to re-basing them? This must be what gave me the idea the missions were more often.

It looks like they were re-based sometime in early September and from the first strike on 9/6 at Singapore until 11/12 at Manila there were 22 missions, and some were within a day or two of each other. So over that 67 days the strike frequency was more like one every 3.1 days.

There was then a break until a strike on 12/1 at Naha. There were 21 strikes from this point until the most recent at Shanghai on 2/16, making it one every 3.7 days over these 72 days.

Sorry to take up space in your AAR Nic but I hope it's useful info as you go forward. I'll post more soon in my AAR detailing the strikes and their effectiveness, as I think it's a part of the game a to of players don't get to see.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

A convoy with 80K supplies and 30k fuel reached Biak. This will probably be the last run in this area. It's getting harder and harder to defend these waters properly. Once unloaded the transports will bring back some troops in order to redeploy them in Luzon and Okinawa.
Another big 100k supplies convoy left Tokyo, heading for Mindanao. 80k supplies are now reaching Singapore and 20k Rangoon... never enough[:(]

With all of these bases low are you able to mount LBA strikes effectively?

I think you mentioned turning off fort building everywhere, but another thing that I've noticed lately is that airframe replacements after a massive battle can be catastrophic if done in a frontline base. I've been sending groups to the rear now for any kind of upgrade or to fill groups out after a big loss.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

A convoy with 80K supplies and 30k fuel reached Biak. This will probably be the last run in this area. It's getting harder and harder to defend these waters properly. Once unloaded the transports will bring back some troops in order to redeploy them in Luzon and Okinawa.
Another big 100k supplies convoy left Tokyo, heading for Mindanao. 80k supplies are now reaching Singapore and 20k Rangoon... never enough[:(]

With all of these bases low are you able to mount LBA strikes effectively?

I think you mentioned turning off fort building everywhere, but another thing that I've noticed lately is that airframe replacements after a massive battle can be catastrophic if done in a frontline base. I've been sending groups to the rear now for any kind of upgrade or to fill groups out after a big loss.

So true!

After the recent air battles near Ambon (with the CV clash) and Misol, i had to send a lot of groups back to Sosarbaja and Bab in order to replenish their airframes and draw new pilots from reserve.
Unfortunately the need to base a lot of fighters in our frontline bases is obviously causing problems with supplies... i can never use drop tanks and many Air HQs aren't getting any new torps lately.
I'm still using lots of barges and fast xAks to deliver supplies where i can (Makassar and Kendari above all), but we consume much more than what we deliver.
Forts are just too expensive to be built at the present status and once the allies land, the base is lost anyway. So i'm trying to save supplies for the air army in order to remain competitive as long as possible. it's still a long way to Tokyo

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: obvert

Thought I should chime in just for the other view. [;)]

Shouldn't we look at what has been accomplished in about two months of bombing vs what has been lost while doing it?

The US night bombing of Tokyo was by all accounts immensely devastating, and yet at the end of the war it was estimated that only about 50% of Tokyo's industrial capacity was destroyed by that campaign.

The bombing in our game has been happening for what, two months? Maybe 10 weeks? Since it began the Allies have knocked out just about half of the industrial capacity of Tokyo. The B-29s have also managed during this time to knock out nearly half of the industry in Osaka as well, and there is virtually no industry still producing outside the Home Islands due to night bombing B-29s. So, as with everything in the stock game, the extremes are there on both sides of the equation.

Obviously I can´t say very much here as you are reading. But the price for that has been heavy as you will notice eventually. The exakt numbers are in the AAR for anyone interested. Both damage done and not done including losses are there.

The B29 campaign outside the HI has been going on for a year and not two months. Also worth mentioning:

- The last 3 or 4 raids have caused almost no damage at all despite taking tremendous losses. Almost 3 months worth of replacements for no returns.

ORIGINAL: obvert
Only Jocke could answer this, but it's also possible that bombing twice a week is too much for the service 5 airframe, and a lot are being lost due to flying with some fatigue and damage. It would help explain why all of the planes that look to only be damaged in the replay are then lost as A to A, although I'm sure the distance is a problem too. It's interesting as a side note that my pilots are not getting the kills for these planes though they are listed as A to A.

I have not been flying twice a week. I have been flying once every 8-12 days since I stand down the B29 so they go into maintenance to repair plane fatigue. Obviously being SR5 planes they don´t repair fast enough to fly twice a week.

Strat bombing is of course integral in the game design or it wouldn´t be rewarded with VPs. If you don´t allow some kind of night strat bombing of the HI you remove a big piece of the VP puzzle and that is obviously going to upset a lot of things. I don´t want to hijack GJs AAR with a discussion about this. He and Q-ball is of course free to do what they want. I just want to point out at that I don´t agree one bit with the notion that Strat bombing at night from extended range is a "instawin button" and GJ is doomed by allowing this.

Jocke, I'm not saying you're misusing anything here! [:)] Just trying to get some objective info to players who have not used this stuff in the new beta. Hopefully what we're learning can be useful and players can make choices based on these results.

No one said anything about "instawins" with strat bombing, but it is quite effective in spite of losses. All I'm trying to show is that you've achieved quite a lot, and if your usage was as low as you note here that would be even more spectacular.

After looking through several of my notes on strat bombing I realize we're both a bit off in our perceptions. [;)]

Using the B-29-25 from the Marianas you've sent 10 missions to the HI from the first to Tokyo on 12/10/44 until the latest at Hiroshima on 2/11/45. So on average they were one mission every 6.4 days.

Using the B-29-1 you've been going a bit more frequently, with some gaps that perhaps are due to re-basing them? This must be what gave me the idea the missions were more often.

It looks like they were re-based sometime in early September and from the first strike on 9/6 at Singapore until 11/12 at Manila there were 22 missions, and some were within a day or two of each other. So over that 67 days the strike frequency was more like one every 3.1 days.

There was then a break until a strike on 12/1 at Naha. There were 21 strikes from this point until the most recent at Shanghai on 2/16, making it one every 3.7 days over these 72 days.

Sorry to take up space in your AAR Nic but I hope it's useful info as you go forward. I'll post more soon in my AAR detailing the strikes and their effectiveness, as I think it's a part of the game a to of players don't get to see.

No problem Erik! these infos are very usefull for us all!

I'm trying to build as much NF as i can... even if i steamlined the NF production on Irving, Dinah and Randy (with the last two arriving very very late)