Drop Tanks and Ordnance

[Symon]

Witpqs had an issue abot this and reported it. I checked, and found it was WAD. It was so for certain particular reasons. Don't want to hijack his errata thread with more about all this stuff, but think it might be useful to modders. So here it is.

As always, thoughts are my own, but data is data.

Ciao. JWE

[Symon]

Test bed had 8 test airplanes in otherwise empty slots. Had 8 squadrons with the test airplanes. The AF size was huge, supply was gigantic, and there were 4 Air HQs. Each squadron iterated internally. There were 12 external iteration runs. 96 individual data points.

Rendered the rules from the results. Ran extension tests for ‘num’ outside the test conditions and for additional Wpn lines outside the test conditions, for verification. An additional 96 individual data points, 192 total data points. 384 response points.

Checked them against the code to see if they were working as expected. They were. But the following is from the test matrix, not the code. Anyone doing the same tests will come to the same conclusions without recourse to the code. So without further ado:

“Use Drop Tank” rules:

The rules are valid for operational missions. Planes on Training missions will always show all ordnance and DTs. To verify your loads using DTs, select a mission like Ground Attack to see what will actually happen.

1x Drop Tank on CL: 1x Ordnance on CL – Only DT
1x Drop Tank on CL: 1x Ordnance on XT – Only DT
1x Drop Tank on XT: 1x Ordnance on CL – Only DT
1x Drop Tank on XT: 1x Ordnance on XT – Only DT
1x Drop Tank on CL: 2x Ordnance on CL – Only DT
1x Drop Tank on CL: 2x Ordnance on XT – Ordnance plus DT
1x Drop Tank on XT: 2x Ordnance on CL – Only DT
1x Drop Tank on XT: 2x Ordnance on XT – Ordnance plus DT

2x Drop Tank on CL: 1x Ordnance on CL – Only DTs
2x Drop Tank on CL: 1x Ordnance on XT – Only DTs
2x Drop Tank on XT: 1x Ordnance on CL – Ordnance plus DTs
2x Drop Tank on XT: 1x Ordnance on XT – Ordnance plus DTs
2x Drop Tank on CL: 2x Ordnance on CL – Only DTs
2x Drop Tank on CL: 2x Ordnance on XT – Ordnance plus DTs
2x Drop Tank on XT: 2x Ordnance on CL – Ordnance plus DTs
2x Drop Tank on XT: 2x Ordnance on XT – Only DTs

Okay, this is for 1x DT device line (Wpn 9) with ‘num’ of 1x or 2x DTs, and 1x ordnance device line, with ‘num’ of 1x or 2x devices, i.e., the first Wpn line that has either a GA Rocket, GP Bomb, AP Bomb, or Torpedo device Type.

Now .. one is able to put ordnance in 2x or 3x Wpn lines. DTs replacing ordnance only happens to the ordnance in the 1st Wpn line, according to the above rules. Ordnance in the 2nd (and subsequent) Wpn lines are unaffected.

Understanding all this means a modder can do wonderful stuff with load-outs. One can actually have a nominal load-out and then one where DTs replace specific ordnance, for both the default (norm range) and reduced (ext range) conditions.

I hope this helps. It has certainly helped us.

Ciao. JWE

[Symon]

If you think about it, it does tend to explain why some planes won't fly certain missions (with DT=on) and when they fly others, they fly them without ordnance (with DT=on). And when people are using the "filter" attribute field and redo the 'facing" field to be more hysterically accurate, it's no surprise that it works for some but doesn't for others.

So if it's a scen and it's not working, look at the rules, and accept the result. If it's your mod and it's not working, look at the rules, and try again. [;)]

[witpqs]

Thanks! I've copied that out for reference.

One question in case you noticed during the tests.

Take a situation like the plane defined in the original query, where the 'with drop tanks' config shows only the DT for Default Load (normal range) and shows the DT plus weapons for Reduced Load (extended range): Will that plane fly an operational mission only at extended range (DT + weapons) or also at normal range (using the DT + weapons defined for extended range)?

BTW, that plane seems to fit the

"1x Drop Tank on XT: 1x Ordnance on XT – Only DT"

category for Default Load, and the

"1x Drop Tank on XT: 2x Ordnance on XT – Ordnance plus DT"

category for Reduced Load. So now I understand how the weapons are showing up, I'm just wondering whether it will use the extended range ordnance for normal range (given that there are no normal range ordnance showing).

[Symon]

Hi witpqs,

Unfortunately, no. All the conditions are independent.

Default Range, no DT, you get 1x torpedo
Extended Range, no DT, you get 2x bombs
Default Range with DT, you just get the DT
Extended Range with DT, you get DT and 2x bombs.

So there will be that range band between the end of Nom Ext Range and the end of DT Default Range where all you can do is sweep or strafe, or escort. The original idea was recognizing that the DT replaces the torp. Unfortunately, there is no mechanism by which the DT knockout rule causes a substitution of weaponry.

If you want to mod it, there is a trick you can use. Keep the torp in the first slot and add a couple bombs, external, in the next slot (I do believe Coastal Command flew them with a torp and a couple 100/200 lb bombs), so that wouldn’t screw up the normal (no DT) condition very much).

Then, when you go to Default Range with DT, the DT knocks out the torp, but retains the bombs. That way you will have something to go boom in that now empty band.

If you want to get really gnarly, make a Nav Attack and default filter trigger for the torp, add bombs (external) and give them a Gr Attack or AF Attack, or both, or whatever, filter trigger. This works great and means your DT will kickout the torp on Default+DT Nav missions, leaving you with nothing but strafe, but will also kick out the torp, but include the bomb ordnance for the others. And it even shows up correctly on the Aircraft Data panel. Lots of different ways to configure this.

Hope this helps. JWE

[witpqs]

Got it!

For purposes of the 'errata list', I will assume that the stock config on that plane should be changed to something that knocks out the two bombs for extended range under with-DT, as I doubt Ian, et al intended that. I'll just hold it as a list item until he reenters Earth's atmosphere.