Books arrived, let me say they are incredible as books go

[Dorb]

The title of this thread reminds me of a Seinfeld episode, "they're REAL and they're SPECTACULAR" [:D]

[wodin]

Makes no sense..if that was the case what was the point of all that hard work Shannon has doe..might aswell just written the books and sent a copy of a Vassal version.

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
I think the largest problem besetting computer World in Flames, is the perception it is more computer program, than set of books.

I understand why you like paper manuals, just not everyone feels the same.

And I have to say that I find the statement above to be really difficult to understand and impossible to agree with. We've been arguing about whether Matrix should offer a D/D only version, are you suggesting that they should also offer a book-only version?

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Dorb
The title of this thread reminds me of a Seinfeld episode, "they're REAL and they're SPECTACULAR" [:D]

[:)] I remember that one!

But I actually already bought the game, I had the books shipped to my parents in the US, where they will sit. I am in the slow process of reading the manuals (via pdf) and watching the tutorials now.

[Dr. Foo]

You have the PC gamers: not used to physical shipping.  Don't like books as manuals and read pdf on screen/ipad/laptop. 
And then you have the board gamers who were drawn to this site because of MWIF.  They are used to physical products, they crave books.

While I am a PC gamer and I was surprised that I had no choice but to buy the books. I really think I'm going to like them. From what I have seen they look expensive and look like they will hold up well with me having my laptop open and one elbow down on the page I am reading to keep it from flipping! [:D]

[DSWargamer]

To address to posters.

It is true we perceive Slitherine Group as being primarily a software publisher, but there is nothing preventing them from branching out either. There is nothing preventing MMP from marketing computer wargames either.

But although it was clearly no picnic to make the software, I think in my own view, the software is the icing on the cake, and not the other way around. WiF will never be seen as a computer wargame, it will always be a board game wargame with a computer adaption. Over all I am likely not going too far out on a limb by suggesting a lot of the people getting the game, likely are getting it for reasons similar to mine.

Ideally, I'd rather have the books, and a big enough table to play the board game. The computer program addresses a simple truth, most of us will never enjoy that table.

Without the books, well the computer program would still be ok, but, I think over all, the program would be diminished to the point that a person could say it was just another grand strategy computer wargame. The industry has several of those. There's no real way I'd want to pretend I was going to master this design without the books.

Playing the game, and resorting to just pdf files.... that's like scrubbing my floors with a finger nail brush. Yeah it can be done, I wouldn't volunteer to do it though

I was looking at my invoices today though. Hmmm I think there are people at work doing things in our favour when they can though.
Back up disc 6.96
Book 1 10.43
Book 2 13.33
Book 3 9.28

That comes to a very convenient very strategic even 40 bucks.
I think someone deserves some of my homemade muffins.
I appreciate it when the sender does everything they can to make things 'easier' on the destination.

[Dr. Foo]

Looks like I'll be getting my books today! [:)]

November 15, 2013 , 4:12 am
Arrival at Post Office
HONOLULU, HI 96822

[bo]

Just received my MWIF books and the books are the finest I have ever seen in any computer war game, absolutley awsome. I truly understand the feelings of many posters who bought the game and just wanted the download either because the PDF was in the download or because of very high shipping charges. I really cannot comment one way or the other about my personal feelings about the delivery charges.

With that said a game of this caliber demands the books that we are getting. They are brilliantly done IMO, I have no monetary motive for saying that. There might come a time with some people complaining so much that Matrix might be overwhelmed by this and decide not to include the books in future issues of the game because of shipping prices, this would be IMO a misscarriage of computer war game justice, I hope it never comes to that.

Bo

[chuxdecator]

This is simple for me and I don't see why it isn't for others. I am extremely happy with my purchase of the game ($99) and the books received. I don't understand the comments from others stating that they don't want the books. Why would you want to pay $99 for the game and not receive the printed books that Matrix graciously includes with the computer game? Is it because you don't want to pay the shipping fees?

One option that could make both sides happy, I suppose maybe, is that Matrix include an option for the consumer to decline the manuals and only receive the dvd thus allowing them to avoid the shipping charges for the books but you would still be paying $99 for the downloaded game without the books which are fantastic btw. Matrix could certainly reap the benefits there so I don't understand the logic from the consumer to not want something offered with the game but then again I am not across the pond where the shipping/custom fees apparently can be hefty.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: bo
There might come a time with some people complaining so much that Matrix might be overwhelmed by this and decide not to include the books in future issues of the game because of shipping prices, this would be IMO a misscarriage of computer war game justice, I hope it never comes to that.

Here we go again...I am very glad that Matrix offers beautiful books to those that want them. But when you say that you hope that Matrix does not "decide not to include the books in future issues of the game" what you are really saying is that "I hope that in future Matrix continues to force customers to buy what they don't want, because that is what I think is better for them."

I give up at this point, I really don't get it, does everyone on this board really think that they know what is best for me??

[Zorachus99]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: bo
There might come a time with some people complaining so much that Matrix might be overwhelmed by this and decide not to include the books in future issues of the game because of shipping prices, this would be IMO a misscarriage of computer war game justice, I hope it never comes to that.

Here we go again...I am very glad that Matrix offers beautiful books to those that want them. But when you say that you hope that Matrix does not "decide not to include the books in future issues of the game" what you are really saying is that "I hope that in future Matrix continues to force customers to buy what they don't want, because that is what I think is better for them."

I give up at this point, I really don't get it, does everyone on this board really think that they know what is best for me??

No.

Just most of them. [:D]

[Aurelian]

Being a recent Kindle adapter, and one who has lost books in the past, I'd rather just have the pdfs.
 
More to the point, I'd rather have a choice.
 
Isn't going to stop me from buying it when I get around to it. But....
 
After all, the maps are an extra cost option. Don't need them to play the game. Nor does one need the books.
 
 

[DSWargamer]

Well not being able to see the future, and possessing no inside secret information.

Either the sale of the books has been a success, and maybe we can ask for some other games to be given mega deluxe treatment, or, maybe they have decided that regardless of the success, maybe they will stop trying to sell books as it hasn't been worth the grief.

When you consider though, how often computer wargames, that were always just computer wargames, get repeatedly altered through fiddling patches, I am not sure a once and final manual would be so easy to do and be worth it.

I have no idea if the manuals for any of my computer wargames have ever evolved after initial release, but, some of the pdf versions sure would make for some stunning hard covers.

It comes down to me asking a local printer, how much it would cost them to do me a proper full colour, fully bound hard cover that was at least reasonably close to the magnitude of these manuals.
I know my War in the East manual came in at 40 bucks for just black and white in a spiral binding.

I think people have been quite unfair saying the cost and the shipping has been over the top too expensive.
That is simply the cost. It comes down to some simply can't afford it. That's just life.

If they had released every last game in the same fashion, with a great hard cover manual, and with a disk, and with a digital download, but no just digital download, I'd have still considered them all good purchases.
I recall the manual that DID come packaged in the box for Highway to the Reich. It was small enough to fit in the box, it was black and white, and the manual was so faded washed out to be damn near unreadable. It was worthless. But it was also just part of the purchase. Sometimes you only get what you pay for. I didn't pay anything for THAT manual, and it wasn't worth anything either.
I think The Battles in Normandy manual that is actually a pdf file, would make a very nice hard cover. I had it printed out in colour thanks to help from a friends colour laser.

I think Slitherine might want to look into getting some of their games that are series, and consider possibly selling them as books in a collected format. Some of us would be interested.
I have no idea how they would make it work profit wise.

I still can't believe they actually made these ones for World in Flames. They so far exceed my expectations.
I thought I'd be getting just the program some day. I never had even the slightest hint the books were ever going to appear.

I don't need Christmas, nothing I get the rest of the year is going to top this purchase.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: 76mm

ORIGINAL: bo
There might come a time with some people complaining so much that Matrix might be overwhelmed by this and decide not to include the books in future issues of the game because of shipping prices, this would be IMO a misscarriage of computer war game justice, I hope it never comes to that.

Here we go again...I am very glad that Matrix offers beautiful books to those that want them. But when you say that you hope that Matrix does not "decide not to include the books in future issues of the game" what you are really saying is that "I hope that in future Matrix continues to force customers to buy what they don't want, because that is what I think is better for them."

I give up at this point, I really don't get it, does everyone on this board really think that they know what is best for me??

Here we go again Huh! Go where!

You know what I think 76mm your trying to flame me and other posters here by putting words into my mouth, dont ever tell me what I am really saying when I am not, I have been courteous to you several times in the past, you seem to have a convenient memory about helping you, so I would appreciate in the future you leave me out of your posting.

Capisce!

P.S. I dont like to use the word trolling but you are on the verge of it.

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Being a recent Kindle adapter, and one who has lost books in the past, I'd rather just have the pdfs.

More to the point, I'd rather have a choice.

Isn't going to stop me from buying it when I get around to it. But....

After all, the maps are an extra cost option. Don't need them to play the game. Nor does one need the books.

Never had a kindle, can you put the pdfs on it?

Bo

[MatJack]

I have a kindle, the game with the books, and multiple monitors. Never tried putting a PDF on on the Kindle from the web or from someplace else.

But for me I'll keep the books and use them as well as admire them for how they were put together. I look at the books less like books and more like technical reference's. The Kindle is great for books but is not a great replacement when the written material is used as a technical reference AND the subject covered is vast.............such as the content of these books.

IMHO PDF's are great, multiple monitors are great, but I still defer to written manuals when the subject is not really like a novel and the like.............PDF's for this game, for me will be used on a third screen and used for quick and dirty look up/searches for clarification but not as the real resource for in depth reading.

[Dorb]

Mine came in today, and I must say bravo on a job well done. The books are awesome. - not to mention It has my game disk. Not sure how I missed that one on the location on all these threads. Have not checked out the maps yet, must save something to mess with for the weekend. cheers.

[chuxdecator]

ORIGINAL: 76mm
Here we go again...I am very glad that Matrix offers beautiful books to those that want them. But when you say that you hope that Matrix does not "decide not to include the books in future issues of the game" what you are really saying is that "I hope that in future Matrix continues to force customers to buy what they don't want, because that is what I think is better for them."

I give up at this point, I really don't get it, does everyone on this board really think that they know what is best for me??

Please enlighten me.... You want to pay $99 for the game and not receive the books. Is that what you are saying? If that is the case.... I don't see how you prevail with that scenario.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Dorb

Mine came in today, and I must say bravo on a job well done. The books are awesome. - not to mention It has my game disk. Not sure how I missed that one on the location on all these threads. Have not checked out the maps yet, must save something to mess with for the weekend. cheers.

I opened mine today while the Fedex guy was standing on my doorstep and I could not see a jewel case, why because the disc was in envelope in the book. It looked like to me the box had been opened. I am thinking uh oh. he waited to I was satisfied and after me telling him that Pony Express was faster then Fedex. Did he care, yeah right [:(]

Bo

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: bo

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Being a recent Kindle adapter, and one who has lost books in the past, I'd rather just have the pdfs.

More to the point, I'd rather have a choice.

Isn't going to stop me from buying it when I get around to it. But....

After all, the maps are an extra cost option. Don't need them to play the game. Nor does one need the books.

Never had a kindle, can you put the pdfs on it?

Bo

Yes. On the Kindle Paperwhite I have anyway.

[LiquidSky]

The addition of the books is overpriced. They add too little product for too much money.

I am glad that some people want to support FedEx by paying all that extra shipping. Even happier that they want to help out their failing European economies by paying the taxes for it, instead of just downloading the game.

If I really wanted hardcover books, I would have taken the PDF to a bookbinder and had them print me one.

The books are not even that nice to read. The charts in the back of V.2 are fuzzy/small and hard to read or use. The choice of a yellow sandy background with grey print makes it hard to read. The back cover is a useless rah-rah summary of a game you already own.

The books are designed for people who have never heard of World in Flames, and need to be taught how to play from the ground up. For people (like me) who have played the game for years, through all its iterations, all this verbose information is an annoyance. And will become an annoyance for you once you learn how to play.

Sure the books look nice. Feel nice. But the information I need from them is just too hard to dig out while playing, and in the end, I will end up just printing the reference material I want to have at hand for the game, or even just use the chart from the original game, and park the books to be opened seldom on the bookshelf. In the basement. Unless I need something to stand on to reach the top shelf.