Castles in the Sand - Spidery(J) vs MrKane(A) no MrKane please

[Spidery]

January 12th 1942

Air Losses: 1 Japanese, 2 Allied, 1 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Christmas Island IO(air drop), Toungoo(auto), Oosthaven
Japanese land at:

Philippines

The last damaged ship (an xAK) in Manila port is sunk.

DEI

OOsthaven taken without any problems.

An airdrop takes an undefended Christmas Island.

China

Supply rushes back from Port Arthur (drops to 22,000) and into China and the front-line units.

Multiple attacks towards Sian are ordered for tomorrow

Burma

The Allies seem to have run away. The advance is ordered to slow down as I don't want to capture Magwe until I have aviation support and Anti-aircraft weapons ready to move in. The Allies are retreating from a paper tiger as I have only a single cavalry regiment plus some artillery in my lead force.

An AMc is destroyed while clearing mines at Rangoon.

Engineering

Mukden expands airfield to 8, this will allow the existing aviation support to fully cover training and spare some for deployment.

Allies expand Chengtu airfield to 3.

[Spidery]

January 13th 1942

Air Losses: 0 Japanese, 1 Allied, 0 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Muntok(auto), Soerabaja
Japanese land at: Sinabang

Philippines

A poor series of airfield attacks at Manila leave the airfield undamaged allowing fort building.

DEI

Soerabaja falls - 2 points of damage to oil and refinery. Supplies go up by about 15,000 and fuel by 139,000 [:)]in Java - presumably captured.

A battalion attacks at Sabang and is badly damaged, it was supposed to be after a CA bombardment but the bombardment got hung up[:(].

China

A series of bad attacks resulting in many disablements but few losses and pushes Chinese back 1 hex near Yunan.

Multiple movement arrows in the Changsha area suggesting Chinese forces may be falling back as I have moved forces to threaten an attack from IChang towards Changteh.

Burma

Recce of Paoshan shows British forces there.
A Chinese unit is in the hex West of Paoshan - not clear if it is digging in or heading for Lashio.

The AMc at Rangoon fail to sweep the minefield - not clear why.

Engineering

Allies expand Bangalore airfield to 2.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Spidery

Thoughts on the sub war

My subs are doing a very poor job of finding Allied convoys (and also when they find them having some bad luck on attacks[:(]). So far they have sunk 2 small ships near Pearl Harbour and a couple of bigger ships near San Francisco. They have spotted and failed in their attacks against ships in the Bass Strait and evacuees from Java heading for Perth. They also lucked out and sunk a CA near Rabaul and damaged the Saratoga but both those were from subs in transit to a patrol area[8|].

There have been a few contacts with ASW forces near Pearl. My subs off the American West Coast aren't even being spotted by air search.

It sounds like he is doing a very good job of routing his convoys so as to confound your efforts to find them. Also, and pretty likely, he might simply have sent very few so far. The Allies are mostly caught flat-footed when the war starts. Even supply on the West Coast will take time to build up. There are few troops available to move.

As far as why your subs off the West Coast, it is still really early in the game. He might have decided that it makes no difference if he is not shipping much out and has his search and ASW air assets all or mostly all training.

The Allied subs are just absent. The Dutch were aggressive near Java and earlier near Miri but recently I'm not seeing any Allied subs. I haven't seen any signs of subs near the Home Isles. About a dozen Allied subs have been sunk (mostly by the first turn port strike at Manila) and there are probably another 10 or so that are damaged and in repairs but there should be lots more available - even with dodgy torpedoes.

So, any advice on what to expect from the subs and how best to use them? Is there anything clever he could be doing with the Allied subs that explains why I am not seeing them?

In WITP, (before WITP-AE), subs were better at moving troops and supplies. Even though that ability is much reduced, he could be using his subs as transports?? I don't know. Maybe he has set them up in defensive patrol areas that you haven't gotten to yet??

For your subs the West Coast may not be as fruitful against a good player as the areas he has to ship TO. He can easily use off-map routing to get stuff where he wants it. At some point though the convoys have to head for a port near the from lines. Those are both more cost (fuel) efficient places to hunt and you're more likely to find something good than off the West coast and Pearl. do you have any between Karachi and the off-map bases. A LOT of Brit stuff appears off map up there and there is just not enough escort early, plus his tankers move through there from Aden. The areas off Colombo and the tip of India are good spots, and the areas off of Perth, Sydney and Brisbane, plus between Port Moresby and Townsville. Maybe near Fiji and Pago Pago as well.

If he's not using Allied subs much then I'd expect them to be massed somewhere soon. Get your ASW air training hard, get your DDs and DMS upgraded to Type 2 DC and get ready to deal with a big bunch of subs at some point soon.

He could also be getting ready to use them tactically against the KB, so make sure to use a lot of night search when moving that around.

[Spidery]

witpqs, obvert,

Thank-you for your comments on the sub war.

It occurred to me that the reason I am not seeing his subs may be that they needed to return to base after the loss/denial of bases at Manila, Soerabaja, Singapore, etc. and aren't yet back out hunting.

I have been training a lot of ASW pilots - I probably have enough to start forming up some effective air groups with pilots at the 60+ skill level.

I have one sub en route to the Karachi area, about 3 near Columbo, a couple down in Perth, about 6 on the Australian West coast or near Port Moresby, and lots around Noumea, New Zealand and Fiji. When the long range subs on the USA West coast return from patrol I will send them over to the Indian ocean.

This game uses the extended map which means the British forces arriving at Aden enter the map some distance from India and ports like Goa and Bombay are only a little further away than Karachi. However, the tankers from Abadan are still close to Karachi.

I suspect the main thing at the moment is, as witpqs says, there just aren't that many targets and I am being impatient.

[Spidery]

January 14th 1942

Air Losses: 0 Japanese, 2 Allied, 0 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Feni Islands(auto), Sinabang, Tablas(air drop)
Japanese land at:

Upgrading to version 1123u.

Very quiet - no action at sea, only air strikes the usual ones in China and Luzon, only two opposed ground attacks.

Philippines

A bombardment attack probes Manila and shows 1869 AV, 812 guns and 286 vehicles. Neither side takes much damage from the

attack. I currently have 1603 AV with 498 guns and 383 vehicles. There are 2 divisions plus lots of artillery heading here.

DEI

Bombardment hits Sabang and does fairly well.

China

Definite signs of a retreat near Changsha, recon shows only two units left at Hengyang. I am only 2 days from crossing the river at Siangtan but may cancel as there is no point in taking the losses for a river attack against fleeing troops. Taking the Changsha area without a fight will be nice.

An attack outside of Sian goes okay. Not sure what unit was destroyed.

Japanese ground losses:
1399 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 236 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 34 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 26 disabled
Guns lost 25 (2 destroyed, 23 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2114 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 138 disabled
Non Combat: 62 destroyed, 43 disabled
Engineers: 12 destroyed, 22 disabled
Guns lost 13 (1 destroyed, 12 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Malaya

Moving troops from Singapore. Also decided to do a lot of conversions in the shipyards.

Engineering

Allies expand Los Angeles port to 9.

[Spidery]

A bombardment attack probes Manila and shows 1869 AV, 812 guns and 286 vehicles

So Manila has 1800+ AV. How to take it? Suggestions please...

There are 100 LI there so if taken intact that would be up to 100,000 supply generated before the Allies get there. (The repair yards are already in a bad way from port attack damage).

Four options occur to me:

1) Siege
2) Assault
3) Devastation
4) Amphibious Assault

Siege

Keep 2 divisions to prevent attacks.
Maintain air strikes against the air base to prevent forts and use supply.
Bombard with a massive artillery train.
Continue until AA stops and a bit longer.
Assault with 3 divisions.

Estimated to take about 4 months.

Advantages - may preserve the industry (but it could be destroyed in the final assault), relatively cheap in HI and supply, gives a lot of on the job training to bomber pilots.

Disadvantages - ties up artillery and planes that could be better used in China.

Assault

Maintain air attacks against the air base to prevent forts.
Move 8 divisions and launch a deliberate attack.

Estimated to take about a month.

Advantages - may preserve the industry, may capture supply.
Disadvantages - diverts troops from the front line (using fuel and risking sub attacks), may be costly, some divisions will be badly damaged, not guaranteed to work.

Devastation

Base AKE at Bataan.
Use BB to bombard repeatedly, destroying supply, disrupting troops, and inflicting casaulties.
Assault with about 5 divisions.

Estimated to take about 2 weeks.

Advantages - releases air to China immediately. Quickest option. Probably cheapest option in terms of HI cost.
Disadvantages - uses quite a lot of supply, industry will be wrecked, unlikely to capture fuel, risk of mines at Manila.

Amphibious Assault

Rather than using bombardment forces create an amphibious assault group of a fragment of a unit on a cheap xAK and with as many BB and CA etc. as can fit. The assault will destroy the assaulting group but the big guns should engage only the defending troops and not damage industry, fuel or supply stock piles.

Advantages - as for "Devastation" option plus possibility of capturing fuel, supply and industry.
Disadvantages - BB in assault force do not always fire all guns, could be seen as "gamey".

[Spidery]

January 15th 1942

Air Losses: 1 Japanese, 1 Allied, 1 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Prome(auto), Madioen, Sangi(air drop)
Japanese land at: Ternate

Minefields cleared at Soerabaja and Rangoon.

Recon of Port Moresby shows it poorly held: 3 units, 3100 troops, 40 guns, 21 AFV.

SigInt reports Heavy Volume of transmissions at 215,68 which is just off the coast North of San Francisco.

[Spidery]

January 16th 1942

Air Losses: 1 Japanese, 4 Allied, 0 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Bhamo(auto), Dadjangas, Sibolga, Madjene, Ternate
Japanese land at: Pontianak

Philippines

An SC is sent into Manila and detects a minefield present. I'll send a lone AMc in to see if it can sweep it without being destroyed by coast defence guns. The 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion is present so this may not go well. Just in case, I'll look for some DMS to send over.

China

Changsha has been emptied by the Chinese. As the Chinese retreat without fighting their supply situation must be getting worse and mine better.

Allied fighters (60) are sighted at Sian. It is 9 hexes from Chengting or Hankow which are my nearest effective bases. Too far to risk sweeps.

Pacific

I have sightings 2 days in a row on a convoy heading due South from Pearl at a rate of 7 hexes a day.

Economy

Vehicle points exceed 1000 for the first time.

To get a handle on the supply situation in the Home Isles I turned off all repairs except for R&D for a turn. Supplies in Japan rose by just over 6000 on the day and total supplies by 4000. So I'll use that to guide how many repairs I can do at a time.

[Spidery]

January 17th 1942

Air Losses: 4 Japanese, 3 Allied, 3 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Busuanga(air drop), Kuching, Nauru Island, Tabar Island (auto), Changsha, Pontianak, Malang
Japanese land at: Nauru Island

After a pause, forces are in place for the next stage and small advances are being made to clear up defenders and leave them unsupplied. An invasion is heading for Koepang, another is gathering for Ambon, additional forces are heading in to try and clear the fortresses at Wenchow, Manila and Batavia before the end of the month.

Philippines & DEI

Small forces are chasing down Allied units. At Pontianak, 2 Catalinas are caught on the ground. Trying to remove all the places search planes can be based.

The AMc sent to Manila clears only 3 mines before it is sunk by coastal gunfire - that didn't work.

China

More fighting but little advance. Changsha is occupied unopposed, 14HI and 38LI are captured.

Burma

Lots of forces arriving at Rangoon now

Indian Ocean

I-164 sinks a KV near Ceylon but is itself damaged (46 Sys, 82 Flt, 3 Engine) and will try to limp to Port Blair as the nearest port.

Engineering

Muroran port expands to 4.

Allies expand Sian airfield to 4 - that is a worry as a bomber base.

[GreyJoy]

Tom is making a mistake, imho, to waste precious supplies in expanding SIAN AF. He will never have enough AV support, nor supplies to conduct any decent bombing campaign. You will bomb him back to stone age as soon as you want and he will have simply wasted supplies and given up to you a great AF to conduct further air ops against central china.
If the AVG or something similar comes there, simply sweep him to oblivion and then bomb the AF. No worry

The easiest way to deal with Manila is to lay a siege with 1 Division, some artillery (not to much) and a Mixed Bde (I use the 65th for this task).
4 Sally/Helens sentais will keep the base suppressed. Then conquer Bataan, move a couple of 2800 tons AKEs to Lyngayen or something like that, maybe a Naval HQ, and then start bombing Manila with the BBs. All your crack divisions are better used elsewhere. The US Army won't go anywhere from there so don't worry. Take your time and use a couple of old BBs (the Fusos maybe) to bomb it a couple of times, while your bombers will do the rest. In few months Manila will fall as a mature fruit without any problems

[Spidery]

GreyJoy, thank-you for the comments,

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Tom is making a mistake, imho, to waste precious supplies in expanding SIAN AF. He will never have enough AV support, nor supplies to conduct any decent bombing campaign. You will bomb him back to stone age as soon as you want and he will have simply wasted supplies and given up to you a great AF to conduct further air ops against central china.
If the AVG or something similar comes there, simply sweep him to oblivion and then bomb the AF. No worry

Agreed, except that until I have Nanyang or Ankang expanded to level 2 I won't have a base close enough that I am happy to sweep / bomb from. Apart from Chungking and Kunming to Paoshan, I look at everywhere in China as eventually being mine and any expansion is just helping me[:)].

As far as I can tell, he doesn't have enough supply generation in the Sian area for the forces there and must be drawing supply across the mountains from the central plains which further seems a waste. I think MrKane is being profligate with supplies in China - I hope to show him the error of his ways.

The easiest way to deal with Manila is to lay a siege with 1 Division, some artillery (not to much) and a Mixed Bde (I use the 65th for this task).
4 Sally/Helens sentais will keep the base suppressed. Then conquer Bataan, move a couple of 2800 tons AKEs to Lyngayen or something like that, maybe a Naval HQ, and then start bombing Manila with the BBs. All your crack divisions are better used elsewhere. The US Army won't go anywhere from there so don't worry. Take your time and use a couple of old BBs (the Fusos maybe) to bomb it a couple of times, while your bombers will do the rest. In few months Manila will fall as a mature fruit without any problems

I already have Bataan and am moving AKE and BB to do this. However, my concern with this is that it will destroy the LI at Manila - that represents 100,000 supply generation lost (assuming keep it until late'44) and in a DBB game supply seems critical. However, I can't see any way to save the LI that isn't overly expensive in other ways.

However, I think I agree that bombardment plus a long siege is best. I'm not even sure the aircraft are needed. I could just keep 2 BB bombarding every few days.

I have converted 12 of the Lima class to AKE, in this mod they can rearm the Nagato/Mutsu so it seemed worth having the extra flexibility over using the Adens.

The 65th Brigade is already on Luzon but needs a bit of R&R to recover from disablements taken clearing Bataan.

[Spidery]

Apart from Chungking and Kunming to Paoshan,

Actually, I look at those as being mine but possibly taking rather longer...

[Spidery]

January 18th 1942

Air Losses: 4 Japanese, 2 Allied, 3 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Boac (auto), Lahat
Japanese land at: Boela

Bad weather grounds many air attacks.

China

Siangtan and Hengyang have both been abandoned.

A speculative airfield attack is directed at Changteh, the bombers from Hankow fail to fly [:(]but 14 Sallys from Canton do and destroy a P-40E on the ground plus score 3 supply hits. No CAP is encountered. A small success.

Pacific

A raiding force is being sent towards Noumea and finds a small TF (reported as 4 ships including an AMC and a CL) near the Fennel Islands. Probably blows surprise so will just try and sink this.

Indian Ocean

I-6 arrives at its patrol location off Karachi and immediately encounters an xAK [8D]- and misses[:(]!

[Spidery]

January 19th 1942

Air Losses: 3 Japanese, 1 Allied, 3 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Boela(auto), Tapul(air drop), Endeh
Japanese land at:

China

Chinese seem to be pulling out from Changteh and Shaoyang also.

The lead armour unit has reached the road junction between Hami and Kiuchan.

Philippines

A bombardment task force attacks Manila. An embedded DMS suffers from gun fire and only clears 7 mines. If it can control the fires it should survive.

The bombardment achieves:

Allied ground losses:
1137 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 22 destroyed, 60 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 14 disabled
Guns lost 19 (2 destroyed, 17 disabled)
Vehicles lost 15 (2 destroyed, 13 disabled)

Repair Shipyard hits 1
Manpower hits 2
Fires 206
Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 25
Port hits 22
Port fuel hits 10
Port supply hits 2

Repair yard is badly damaged but the LI undamaged. Some fires rage.

Pacific

The small Allied task force seen last turn must have run at full speed as it is 15 hexes from its last position. It is safe apart from possible sub attacks.

At Johnston Isle, RO-61 encounters a group of DMS and suffers (10/1/0 damage but also 2 torpedo tubes).

Near Christmas Island two subs attack a convoy but neither can penetrate screens.

Heavy volume of transmissions is detected at Sydney.

Burma

3 B-17E find Rangoon at night and do a total of 9 damage to the refineries.

2 Chinese units are spotted next to Lashio.

24 British units are in the hex North-West of Shwebo and moving away into the jungle. It may be possible to get some armour there to attack the last engineers.

[Spidery]

January 20th 1942

Air Losses: 2 Japanese, 1 Allied, 1 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Ocean Island, Wenchow, Hengyang(auto)
Japanese land at: Ocean Island, Koepang

China

Chinese seem to be pulling out from Kweilin as well.

Wenchow falls to a deliberate attack but the industry is 100% destroyed[:@].

Pacific

The I-19 is damaged off San Francisco (16/25/0) and should retire for repairs without problem.

RO-63 hits CL Perth with a torpedo near Brisbane but there is no explosion and the sub is damaged in the counter attack (19/18/0).

Chikuma, Atago, Chokai, and Haguro + 5 DD encounter CA Australia, CL Perth, Adelaide and Dragon plus 4 DD. CL Dragon and DD Isis are sunk [8D] and there is a sinking sound later that may be the CL Adelaide [:)]. Chikuma and Chokai will need a little yard time. Haguro got lucky as it took 2 penetrating belt hits from 8" shells but only has 6 float damage.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Bundaberg at 100,155, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Chikuma, Shell hits 4, on fire
CA Atago
CA Chokai, Shell hits 2
CA Haguro, Shell hits 2
DD Urakaze
DD Tanikaze
DD Yugure
DD Mutsuki
DD Kisaragi

Allied Ships
CA Australia, Shell hits 1
CL Perth, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
CL Adelaide, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Dragon, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Stuart, Shell hits 1
DD Thracian, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Isis, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Jupiter, Shell hits 3

Reduced sighting due to 10% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 10% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 11,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 11,000 yards

The CA force was the cover force for a group of task forces comprising a refuelling, an ASW, a bombardment, and the KB. Only the CA force has been regularly spotted but also the refuelling force at one time. It is not clear whether the presence of the KB is known or not. The Cruiser force has to head back to base for rearm. Enemy forces in the area are unknown and could include all the carriers.

The original plan was to raid Australia and then head North to cover the Port Moresby invasion.

However, there are now a number of other choices. Target the remains of the cruiser force above, investigate a Glen sighting yesterday West of Fiji of 10 ships, retire, or investigate a sig int report North East of Fiji.

Philippines

Fires are getting worse for the damaged DMS at Bataan.

Burma

More B-17E find Rangoon at night. They score no hits and the AA fire damages half-a-dozen but gets no kills. Half-a-dozen of the Tojo prototypes engage and one is lost.

DEI

Landing at Koepang goes well enough but the 18th Division loses 16 devices while unloading.

Forces are moving into Batavia for the attack.

[Spidery]

January 21st 1942

Air Losses: 1 Japanese, 2 Allied, 1 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Siangtan, Melak, Bassein(auto)
Japanese land at:

Pacific

An Allied task force, reported as 10 ships, is off-loading at Port Moresby. The planned invasion is too weak to take the reinforced forces so will have to wait for the Imperial Guards Division to be freed from Java. An SCTF containing 3 CA is close enough to attack and could try some air attack from Rabaul.

Also the Allied task force is in a difficult position with the KB south near New Caledonia and Koepang about to fall and a mini-KB there.

The KB is spotted near New Caledonia but the BB force accompanying it is still not spotted.

SS I-169 takes (50/51/0) damage at Christmas Island and will retire for repairs.

China

Siangtan taken unopposed and undamaged.

3 Chinese units have appeared out of the mists and cut the road West of Chengting - little problem to deal with them.

I have started some significant movement of forces to try a different direction of attack.

Philippines

An Allied minefield is located at Bataan by a DMS. There are enough minesweepers in the area to clear this mess up.

The damaged DMS sinks.

India

I-6 sinks the xAK Maldive off Karachi (an 11 VP ship)

Burma

No night attack by B-17s today.

DEI

A mix-up fails to launch the Koepang attack.

[Spidery]

January 22nd 1942

Air Losses: 2 Japanese, 5 Allied, 0 Pilots
Japanese occupy: Meiktila(auto), Siaoe(air drop), Koepang
Japanese land at: Woodlark Island, Boba, Rossel Island

Pacific

Split the force that was heading for Port Moresby and have landed at many bases. Rossel Island gets the one aviation support unit in the landings.

China

Nothing of note

Philippines

A DMS working on Bataan minefield strays into Manila and is damaged by defensive guns, should be fixed. Only AMc will be used to complete the sweeping. 150 mines are cleared in Bataan and the minefield remains - I think that explains where the Allied subs were.

DEI

Koepang falls without problem.

[Spidery]

River crossings and how they work?

On the road to Ankang I am blocked by a large Chinese force just before the river. Tomorrow, a fragment of the 1st Raiding Regiment can cross the river from the Ankang direction. I expect that will trigger a shock attack and it will be destroyed, but will it open the hex side?

If I add bombardment support or a deliberate attack from the units in the hex then will they join in the attack? If they do will they be shock attacking? The last deliberate attack here resulted in 145 disablements so I would rather not shock attack. If I just bombard will they support the shock attack but not be subject to massive damage?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Spidery

River crossings and how they work?

On the road to Ankang I am blocked by a large Chinese force just before the river. Tomorrow, a fragment of the 1st Raiding Regiment can cross the river from the Ankang direction. I expect that will trigger a shock attack and it will be destroyed, but will it open the hex side?

Yes, provided you already have unit(s) there. Or just plain 'yes' if it is not destroyed.

If I add bombardment support or a deliberate attack from the units in the hex then will they join in the attack? If they do will they be shock attacking? The last deliberate attack here resulted in 145 disablements so I would rather not shock attack. If I just bombard will they support the shock attack but not be subject to massive damage?

It is my understanding that even though the combat report is not that explicit, different units can have and will execute different attack orders.

Will only bombarding help the unit making the crossing? No idea.

[Spidery]

Thank-you witpqs,

I'll order a deliberate attack and the river crossing attack and see what happens.