British Expeditionary Force (BEF)

[vicberg]

Because if you want to ship all the french production over to the CW, well then, low box or no, I'm going to be paying a little visit to the Bay of Biscay with my submarines. Even coming from the one box has a 30% per impulse chance of catching your convoys if you're putting more than 10 in there, and I've got little better to do in the winter months anyway with a classic setup. And if you have no naval gearing, like you seem to be suggesting, then you'll never replace those convoys in time. A bad roll in the Faeroes or the Bay of Biscay can de-rail your entire production line, more or less permanently.

Yup tried that also. He has a unique (from what I've seen) approach to convoys. He has convoy via Central and Northern Atlantic and has extra convoys in Faeroes and Bay of Biscay. So if I nail any of his convoys, he has duplicates. It's harder for GE to hit Bay of Biscay, where the BP are from France are flowing through because GE and IT simply don't have that many 3 range subs. Plus he has his starting Nav escorting Bay of Biscay and puts around 4-5 escorts on the zero box so if I do hit anything, my subs pay the price in return. He always has pickets in the 4 box, so I often don't have enough surprise to choose sub combat against the naval air.

[brian brian]

Yes, a strong BEF is a very viable Allied option, and doesn't just surrender other parts of the world to the Axis. It probably does preclude Allied adventures in Portugal or Iraq, sure, but those aren't necessarily wise risks to delaying US Entry. If the Brits focus on putting cheap infantry in the way of the Germans, they can accomplish a lot. Many players would rather build more "fun" units though, and launch their own campaigns somewhere (East Africa), rather than play boring defense on the Continent.

A 3rd HQ can't make it to France until Jul/Aug 40, but that is a common move.

The UK has 3 MIL units - London, Manchester, and Glasgow. If one is killed in France, it appears in England the next turn. The key is for the CW to keep their infantry gearing high and keep the MIL pool low. The other world-wide MIL are in India or already in Egypt. The Canadians come to Europe of course. Good CW play can move a TRS more than once a turn in western Europe.

A 1940 battle in the North Sea will have varying results impulse by impulse, but will favor the CW over many such battles. The Axis will have limited FTR cover in the 2 box at best, while CW CVs can be in high boxes and take on high-box Axis NAV well enough. The Axis can choose to fight only under their Me-109 umbrella in low boxes, but they will eventually get crushed by the Home Fleet doing that, which can absorb a few rounds of fighting from a high box without land based air cover. Eventually they will reap a surprise point bonus and take out the limited amounts of German sea lift.

The Royal Navy has tremendous sea mobility to respond to what the Axis is doing, and large forces to escort convoys, etc. It can accomplish many things simultaneously with it's large at-start forces, and generally needs less production investment than historical. Until the fall of France, the Bay of Biscay is fairly safe for their convoys, though the Cape St Vincent sea area can get bloody. A zone 3 moves from the SUBs base gives the SUB just a 30% chance of initiating combat against large ( >10 points) convoys, less in any bad weather, and the Axis will have only a handful of SUBs at-start with 5 movement points.

The best German response is, as mentioned, probably to crack the French line, and then not simply ignore opportunities to take good multi-hex attacks on the CW forces, rather than just hoping the British will do a standard Dunkirk operation while the Germans focus on Paris. They need a solid land war machine and nimble generalship to exploit whatever opportunities they can in France, perhaps especially if they can get a double move or when the CW has to do a naval impulse. Holding a force in reserve to threaten crossing the North Sea won't scare a good CW player that much and will lower the German combat forces on the front line, unless they are doing other things like investing in German naval bombers, twin-engined fighters, and TRS.

If the Germans suddenly switch to Sea Lion in 1940 and using their air missions and best ground units for it, they could end up with 2 stalled campaigns in western Europe.

Germany using an O-Chit in the west to counter the strong-BEF option is meeting an Allied goal. Germany attacking the Low Countries in 1939 could accelerate US Entry (might not). It is the Axis that is low on time, not the Allies. All the Allies have to do is repeatedly put cheap infantry in the way of the Axis. This costs the Axis time to deal with; time of which the Russians need all they can get.

[Dabrion]

Well BotA is not exactly a sniper job It is attrition, so you have to do the math to see if it will be worthwhile.

p.s.: Try to memo his build plans along with this. I would be interested in this for further analysis.

[vicberg]

I couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly it.

[brian brian]

It's simple. Build infantry, not aircraft carriers.

[vicberg]

BP Oil CW
SO39 10 3 MECH, INF, CV1
ND39 9 4 MOT, CV1, Pilot, save 1bp
JF40 16+1 5 HQ-I, mAA, Pilot, F2, 1CP, TRS1
MA40 17 2 CV2, MECH, INF, Pilot, F2, CVP1, 2CP
MJ40 22 5 ARM, PARA, AMPH, CP, BB2, Pilot, F2
JA40 25 5 CV2, TRS2, AMPH1, 2CP, 2xPilots, F2, CVP1, MOT, INF
SO40 23 5 BB2, CV2, 2CP, ARM, MOT, 2xPilot, F2, CVP1
ND40 21 4 BB2, CV2, TRS1, 2CP, MOT, INF, Pilot, F3, save 3bp
JF41 22+3 5 4CP, AMPH2, BB2, MECH, GAR, MIL, Pilot, N3, CVP1
MA41 22 5 BB2, repCA, AMPH2, HQ-A, MAR, ENG, repSUB
MJ41 22 6 CV1, TRS1, repCA, MECH, INF, mAA, Pilot, F3
JA41 22 6 CV2, TRS2, TRS1, 2xPilots, F2, L3, MECH
SO41 21 7 AMPH1, TRS1, repBB, 3xPilots, 2xF2, N3, MIL
ND41 22 0 TRS1, TRS2, 4xPilots, F2, N3, L3

He built more ships than I realized. With these builds he had mech, 3 HQ and plenty of INF/MOT to defend Brest until MA41. He also had Egypt and other vital interests defended as well.

The Oil column is to mark an increase or decrease in saved oil. We play with RAW oil rules but it doesn't cost to lay down an oil depot. note all the oil saved from US! With an open Suez, he can transfer BP, Oil or anything else to Russia. Brutal.

[vicberg]

First column is turn. Second # is BP. 3rd # is saved (or burnt) on map oil. Then builds. Copied from excel, so it ported poorly

[vicberg]

I was the victim of terrible weather rolls and short turns, including JA40 with two 10 rolls for weather and the turn ending after only 3 axis impulses. But note that he can easily switch some of the ship production to infantry if he felt I was serious about a sea lion. Note the increase in CW production due to French BP lends starting MJ40. I was unable to Vichy France until ND40 (mostly due to weather but also due to the heavy CW presence) and unable to boot the CW off the continent until MA41.

[Numdydar]

The weakness of ETO games everywhere [:)] Hindsight lol.

The Allies should never be allowed to declare war on the low countries. The penitlies in the game are no where severe enough for an action like this. Also what about the Pacific if the Dutch go Axis two years before Pearl? While this may work great for the ETO, what about the PTO? Or are you just playing a half map game?

[vicberg]

He's not doing a DOW low countries as the allies. He has troops ready to go on TRS. When Axis DOW Netherlands, he places the NE corp in Amsterdam, not Rotterdam. Unless GE is lucky and slips by the CW fleet for an invasion of Rotterdam, Rotterdam is empty and can't be moved into because of ZOC or attacked because it's empty. So the CW next impulse does a combined, and moves 2 corp and a gun into Rotterdam. Rinse repeat with Antwerp. Antwerp can be taken by the Axis, but it 's a single hex attack and not a given during bad weather. He puts the Belgium cav into leige and the 4 and 4 INF corp into Antwerp (9 points in defense). Best single hex attack is around 21 points of ground + 20 points of ground support. 4-1 odds. Of course, ground strike, HQ support can make that single hex attack higher in percentage, but not easy during bad weather as all air is halved. If Antwerp isn't taken, CW moves in next impulse and French grab the rest of the Belgium river line with Brussels.

[Dabrion]

ORIGINAL: vicberg

BP Oil CW
SO39 10 3 MECH, INF, CV1
ND39 9 4 MOT, CV1, Pilot, save 1bp
JF40 16+1 5 HQ-I, mAA, Pilot, F2, 1CP, TRS1
MA40 17 2 CV2, MECH, INF, Pilot, F2, CVP1, 2CP
MJ40 22 5 ARM, PARA, AMPH, CP, BB2, Pilot, F2
JA40 25 5 CV2, TRS2, AMPH1, 2CP, 2xPilots, F2, CVP1, MOT, INF
SO40 23 5 BB2, CV2, 2CP, ARM, MOT, 2xPilot, F2, CVP1
ND40 21 4 BB2, CV2, TRS1, 2CP, MOT, INF, Pilot, F3, save 3bp
JF41 22+3 5 4CP, AMPH2, BB2, MECH, GAR, MIL, Pilot, N3, CVP1
MA41 22 5 BB2, repCA, AMPH2, HQ-A, MAR, ENG, repSUB
MJ41 22 6 CV1, TRS1, repCA, MECH, INF, mAA, Pilot, F3
JA41 22 6 CV2, TRS2, TRS1, 2xPilots, F2, L3, MECH
SO41 21 7 AMPH1, TRS1, repBB, 3xPilots, 2xF2, N3, MIL
ND41 22 0 TRS1, TRS2, 4xPilots, F2, N3, L3

He built more ships than I realized. With these builds he had mech, 3 HQ and plenty of INF/MOT to defend Brest until MA41. He also had Egypt and other vital interests defended as well.

The Oil column is to mark an increase or decrease in saved oil. We play with RAW oil rules but it doesn't cost to lay down an oil depot. note all the oil saved from US! With an open Suez, he can transfer BP, Oil or anything else to Russia. Brutal.

Looks interesting.. but he seems to produce uninterrupted. You can see the French BP helping out during 40 there I will check its feasibility later. Thanks for the plan! Here is a better format

What was (wasn't) Italy's role in this?

[vicberg]

I haven't been able to touch his production. I even built 3 IT subs and 3 GE subs. More commitment than most if going for a 41 Barb.

[vicberg]

He was the situation beginning 41. Note, he had at least 4 corp in England, so not entirely undefended.

[vicberg]

This was end of JA40. Note the French stack northwest of Paris had a MECH/ARM/AT, so -5 in the open and 17 on defense. The remaining French are protected by rivers and 12 points of defense in Paris hex (-4 to attack).

Note all the CW troops poring in. He still had 4 corp, 1 gun and 1 div in England. These troops prevented breakthroughs and their goal was to form the defense near Brest. J

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: vicberg

He's not doing a DOW low countries as the allies. He has troops ready to go on TRS. When Axis DOW Netherlands, he places the NE corp in Amsterdam, not Rotterdam. Unless GE is lucky and slips by the CW fleet for an invasion of Rotterdam, Rotterdam is empty and can't be moved into because of ZOC or attacked because it's empty. So the CW next impulse does a combined, and moves 2 corp and a gun into Rotterdam. Rinse repeat with Antwerp. Antwerp can be taken by the Axis, but it 's a single hex attack and not a given during bad weather. He puts the Belgium cav into leige and the 4 and 4 INF corp into Antwerp (9 points in defense). Best single hex attack is around 21 points of ground + 20 points of ground support. 4-1 odds. Of course, ground strike, HQ support can make that single hex attack higher in percentage, but not easy during bad weather as all air is halved. If Antwerp isn't taken, CW moves in next impulse and French grab the rest of the Belgium river line with Brussels.

Beware of Option 20

ZOCs don’t extend:
• into, or out of, off-map hexes; or
• into the notional hexes represented by hex-dots; or
• across alpine hexsides; or
• across all-sea hexsides; or
• across lake (except when frozen), or straits, hexsides; or
• into a hex controlled by a major power or minor country, on the other side that the unit is not at war with; or
• Option 20: (Surprised ZoCs) from a surprised unit.

[Dabrion]

Option 20 is a no go! At least for us and for all people I know. It has a rather dramatic effect on the game!

[Klydon]

Given what this guy does, perhaps instituting option 20 will make him work a bit harder for it.

Why is it I have a feeling a lot of people will now try this strategy until away is found to consistently deal with it. The downfall of a lot of games is the "canned" outcome and path of the game. One of the areas where WiF has shined is there are so many things that can be done and a lot of variation is possible in determining the winner of a given game.

By this, it appears the Germans may wish to take a bit of a slower approach and wait for the paratroopers to deal with Rotterdam.

[vicberg]

I did the slow go approach this game and waited until MA40 until the DOWs against the Low countries. Quick turns and bad weather killed this strategy.

I wouldn't worry about this becoming a standard strategy. I avoided the CW and went after the French and their lack of air power. Next game I'll go straight after the CW wherever they land. I don't care if it's Rotterdam, Antwerp or Lille. Killing CW troops prevents the redoubt.

Understand that this guy has played the game so much he knows every strategy, counter strategy, build strategy and counter build strategy. Not everyone can pull this off. He makes look easy.

[brian brian]

You don't want to attack the CW in Antwerp or Rotterdam; if the Defensive Shore Bombardment optional is in play you might as well not bother ever attacking them on any coastal hex. Those hexes are under RAF cover from England, are cities that you can't use your armor against very well, and are partially covered by river lines on some hexsides. You just don't let them in there in the first place. There are a number of solutions. 1 if by sea, 2 if by Fallschirmjaeger. And always wait for good weather.

When you crack the French line, try and get from the breakthrough point and to the north-east if possible, over an impulse or two, to try and block the Brits from retreating back across the Seine. They may hold their enclave at the coast + Lille for an impulse too long before they realize it, or need to do something on the naval side right then. Let them. Then ground-strike them in Lille, or even better, bring up your ARTillery for some strikes and don't even fight the RAF, and attack when you eventually have four hexes on it.

The campaign in France is a classic hex-based wargame struggle of 2 hexes or 3 hexes. To get to having 3 hexes to attack from, the Germans have to crack a line from only 2 hexes first. When the Germans have 3 hexes to attack from, they will generally win. When the Germans have 3 hexes, the Allies should retreat before they get smashed, but they frequently don't.

The Germans should kill as many units as they can whenever the French don't have a solid line that must be cracked; give that a priority in May/Jun over driving on Paris exclusively and in Jul/Aug the French will start running out of units to make a solid line, particularly at the south end. A good Allied player will just retreat into a solid line first. If the French stay in the Maginot too long, they must retreat across open country which is perfect for the panzers. Attacking in that direction is not on the way to Paris, but it might let you cross the Seine to the south, helping to keep the BEF from so calmly setting up new lines behind Paris.

[vicberg]

Brian brian, you've played the game a bit

Tried. Up until the point in the jpg above, he had reserves behind the front lines. Couldn't blitz through and cut him off. He gave up Lille without a fight and pulled back. Each time he was able to retreat and form straight lines. The other thing I'll do next time is take a 2-1 with ARM bonus on the blitz table. Have to be very aggressive in the face of this defense.