USS Dallas, Hunt for Red October Sub, just finished its last voyage

[f4migcap]

http://www.theday.com/article/20131126/ ... 69926/1017

USS Dallas....every time I hear that name I think of Tom Clancy

[GBOATZ]

I was surprised when I saw the movie also, but that's because I was on the Coast Guard Cutter Dallas (WHEC 716) out of Governors Island, NY at the time. Big Difference was one was geographical and the other Biographical (All USCG WHEC's were named after Secretaries of the Treasury back then!)

[El Savior]

You're feeling old when legends die and vanish. First goes Tom Clancy now Dallas... I feel so old.

[Russian Heel]

I recently re-read The Hunt for Red October for the first time in 15-20 years. I never realized how awful of a book it really is. Sure, it is a good story but the characters are all so over the top cartoonish. There are no shades of gray. If they are 'good guys' they are 100% good in all ways and do the morally correct thing in all cases. They Soviets are all portrayed as incompetent alcoholic mustache twirling villains with every stereotype imaginable thrown in complete with Stain-Era summery executions of Fleet commanders, Politburo members fearing execution if their plans fail, and conscript sailors knowing execution awaits them if they fail to do their duty. If he had spent half as much time on developing characters and working to avoid cliched stereotypes as he did getting all the acronyms and nomenclature right, the book would have aged better.

The books get progressively worse with this as they go on.

[ExMachina]

Clancy was not an author of nuance, that's for sure. [;)]

[MR_BURNS2]

Iam told that in a real russian sub there would be a higher percentage of officers and NCO´s than conscripts, as compared to the book/movie, is that true?

[Crimguy]

Burns - I have heard that as well.

Clancy's characters are always a distraction for me due to their wooden personalities, and this belief that if they work for the government, they must be the best. Having worked in various governments that's difficult to swallow ;-D

Also the dialogue is tough (and it also relates to the character depth as well):

ex)
"I'm not sure I can read this sensor data, Mike, the signals it's picking up are all over the map. You may want to take it over to Blake Carrington over at Langley."
"I know Blake. Good people. My wife and I met him at the Presidential Ball last year."
"Yeah. Shame about his son's syphilis."
"Sure is."
They silently walk down the vast South corridor of the Naval Academy, only the occasional echo of a morning drill passing through an open window to interrupt their thoughts.
</ex>

Paleeezzzeee!

[El Savior]

I have read many Clancy's books, but I haven't reread them for a long time. "Hunt for the Red October" is in my list to start it again. Probably I shouldn't touch it, old memories are still good.

[Fishbed]

ORIGINAL: Russian Heel

I recently re-read The Hunt for Red October for the first time in 15-20 years. I never realized how awful of a book it really is. Sure, it is a good story but the characters are all so over the top cartoonish. There are no shades of gray. If they are 'good guys' they are 100% good in all ways and do the morally correct thing in all cases. They Soviets are all portrayed as incompetent alcoholic mustache twirling villains with every stereotype imaginable thrown in complete with Stain-Era summery executions of Fleet commanders, Politburo members fearing execution if their plans fail, and conscript sailors knowing execution awaits them if they fail to do their duty. If he had spent half as much time on developing characters and working to avoid cliched stereotypes as he did getting all the acronyms and nomenclature right, the book would have aged better.

The books get progressively worse with this as they go on.

Well, arguably, he did a much better work with some of his later books. In that respect, Redstorm Rising is pretty well balanced when it comes to individuals, don't know what you mean by "getting worse". General Alekseyev, the Sergetov father & son, the VDV general or the captain of the Julius Fucik are all very sound & competent individuals with a real personality, even though they are on the wrong side of a NATO-centered book (while, it's true and you're right, negative NATO characters are quasi existent, except maybe for the original Nimitz TF admiral, who's just depicted as quite dumb)...

[StellarRat]

ORIGINAL: El Savior

You're feeling old when legends die and vanish. First goes Tom Clancy now Dallas... I feel so old.

Well, don't feel too old, Clancy died young (66), relatively speaking. He hadn't looked healthy for years. Heart problems. I think he was a smoker or former smoker too.

[Russian Heel]

ORIGINAL: Crimguy

Burns - I have heard that as well.

Clancy's characters are always a distraction for me due to their wooden personalities, and this belief that if they work for the government, they must be the best. Having worked in various governments that's difficult to swallow ;-D

Also the dialogue is tough (and it also relates to the character depth as well):

ex)
"I'm not sure I can read this sensor data, Mike, the signals it's picking up are all over the map. You may want to take it over to Blake Carrington over at Langley."
"I know Blake. Good people. My wife and I met him at the Presidential Ball last year."
"Yeah. Shame about his son's syphilis."
"Sure is."
They silently walk down the vast South corridor of the Naval Academy, only the occasional echo of a morning drill passing through an open window to interrupt their thoughts.
</ex>

Paleeezzzeee!

<ex2> The pilot wanted to splash all of the Forgers in one pass, and he could have too, but he had orders not to, and he was a naval aviator in the United States Navy from the United States of America and naval aviators in the United States Navy from the United States of America are the most disciplined naval aviators in the entire world and know the importance of discipline so naval aviators in the United States Navy from the United States of America would never launch an AIM-9 Sidewinder infrared guided missile or his M61 20mm six-barreled cannon capable of a rate of fire of 6,600 rounds per minute without the order to do so. He wasn't some Russian naval aviator full of vodka and cabbage, besides since the Ruskie obviously fired at Commander Jackson without orders, there was no doubt he would die of a 9mm induced brain hemorrhage within three minutes of returning to the Kiev, without the benefit of a final drink of vodka either. </ex2>

Or my personal favorite from Red Rabbit: Moore, Ritter, and Greer the three most important men in the CIA are in the DCI's office drinking whiskey. "So Ritter, what can you tell me about Brezhnev?" "Ritter, what do you think we should do about these Soviet guys?" "We should hurt them." "But How?" "Funny you should ask, Judge..."

Gripping realistic dialog.

[Sabian]

I actually was stationed with one of the former "COB"s of the Dallas when I was in Winter Harbor Maine back in the mid 90s. We took a weekend trip to Groton and he gave us a personal tour of the boat which had pictures of the cast hanging throughout the sub. It is the only active sub I was ever on even though it was only about an hour. One of those once in a lifetime memories for me.