End of 1st Turn of Barbarossa

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I hadn't actually played through the Fast Start scenario for Barbarossa. So I thought I would take a break from debugging and run through a turn. No real surprises.

The screenshot is of the very beginning of the second turn.

Big events:
1 - von Leeb got disorganized attacking Brest-Litovsk. So did his little group of co-attackers.
2 - The 2 Russian infantry in Lithuania near the coast dodged three ground strikes in the first 3 German impulses. On impulse 7 the Germans attacked them anyway and walked away unscathed.
3 - The two best units in the Russian army (an armor and a mechanized) were disorganized in a first impulse ground strike. They sat there looking pitiful for a long time until a German armor group worth 34 factors put them out of their misery.
4 - Without von Leeb to help, von Bock had to decide whether to go north or east. He went north which caused Novgorod to be taken. But a couple of infantry near Smolensk wandered too far afield. The turn ended and with a reroll the USSR is moving first.
5 - Russian has a decent shot at holding the Dnieper. The 7-4 from Odessa can run back to help and a cavalry in Sevastopol is also available. The German armor in the south is pretty nasty though. And Germany still has its O-Chit.
6 - If the Russian counterattack on the two elite German units near Smolensk works out, the USSR might be able to scrape together some units for a defense along the northern Dnieper too.
7 - But the far north is looking really bad. There's nothing up there to stop von Bock flanking the Smolensk position by circling around to the north of Lake Ilmen.
8 - Leningrad has 11 strength factors. That's nice, but splitting them up to stop van Bock would be a bad idea.


My conclusion is that if Germany is very careful about what attacks to NOT do, they can push holes through the Russian line and make pretty good progress in the first turn. The weather stayed Fine, which helped, and the turn ran for 11 impulses. But that is fairly typical. I had the USSR pass at one point, unsuccessfully. The next impulse they had to move units.

There are more Russian reinforcements off the eastern edge of the map. They'll rail into cities during the second turn. Like most Barbarossa games (not just WIF) the Russians look pretty pathetic at the end of a turn, but okay at the start of the next turn. In this game, I think the Germans would chew them up in the coming turn. Whether the USSR can survive until the 3 turn is the real question. After that the weather should be a big help. The USSR also has it O-Chit available.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here's the destroed pool at the end of the first turn. There was a bloody air-to-air combat where of the 4 dies rolls a 17, 18, and 19 were rolled.

[Klydon]

Impressive first turn!

It appears I have more work to do on refining tactics as I never got anywhere close to this result.

Thanks for sharing.

[jesperpehrson]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Impressive first turn!

It appears I have more work to do on refining tactics as I never got anywhere close to this result.

Thanks for sharing.

That depends on how you see it, Steve is also playing the russians

[lecrop]

Solitaire is fun, you lose and win at the same time

[Zorachus99]

ORIGINAL: lecrop

Solitaire is fun, you lose and win at the same time

No emotional involvement

Wait until you are playing a human, and see hundreds of hours of play on the line.

I dare you to be emotionally uninvolved

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Impressive first turn!

It appears I have more work to do on refining tactics as I never got anywhere close to this result.

Thanks for sharing.

Ooze through the line to put the Russians out of supply. Then if the Russians decide to retreat, they become disorganized; ooze around them again and their strength drops to 1 or 3 per unit. If they don't move, surround them with your weakest units and try a weak ground strike each impulse until they are disorganized and become worth 1 (or 3) strength points. That enables all those weak units surrounding them can mop them up. This tactic takes several impulses to implement but it means all the Germans stay organized, including the HQs.

Meanwhile armor and mechanized units select a fairly weak victim and pound it out of existence. You should have fighter cover for those attacks to discourage the USSR from sending in ground support and screwing up your attack odds.

The Germans don't need to hurry. Once the Russian units are eliminated or static (all the reserve units are static/disorganized), the Germans are free to choose where they want to go and whom they want to attack.

The problem for the USSR is that they can't really afford to have half their army pinned down/eliminated. The front is too broad, and it gets wider as they retreat - all those lovely clear terrain hexes in the south. Yum!

[brian brian]

I hope this excellent-so-far game moves forward today, since it is a holiday in the country of the player. Even if the actual AAR doesn't move yet.

This has been a very good example of what _can_ happen to the Russians on the first turn of Barbarossa in World in Flames, if the Germans get a lot of what we call "Hitler Weather" when playing. (Historical Barbarossa was partially delayed by a rainy May, 1941, I believe, among other concerns). If the Germans focus on keeping their units organized, they accomplish more and more each impulse as the number of Russian defenders decrease.

After a powerful opening like this, the Barbarossa scenario becomes a fascinating game of cat and mouse somewhat, as the Russians have to work hard to carefully hold what they need for victory, with limited means to do so. They can't just simply form a strong line on the Dnepr and force the Germans to smash through it somehow.


Happy Thanksgiving!

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I hope this excellent-so-far game moves forward today, since it is a holiday in the country of the player. Even if the actual AAR doesn't move yet.

This has been a very good example of what _can_ happen to the Russians on the first turn of Barbarossa in World in Flames, if the Germans get a lot of what we call "Hitler Weather" when playing. (Historical Barbarossa was partially delayed by a rainy May, 1941, I believe, among other concerns). If the Germans focus on keeping their units organized, they accomplish more and more each impulse as the number of Russian defenders decrease.

After a powerful opening like this, the Barbarossa scenario becomes a fascinating game of cat and mouse somewhat, as the Russians have to work hard to carefully hold what they need for victory, with limited means to do so. They can't just simply form a strong line on the Dnepr and force the Germans to smash through it somehow.


Happy Thanksgiving!

Thanks.

I wasn't planning on progressing this any farther. Mainly my concern was for whether the Germans doing poorly was caused by the setup and optional rules in the Fast Start Barbarossa or whether new players were still learning the ropes. I don't really have the time to play the game - never have actually in the past 8 years.[:)] That's weird, isn't it.[X(]

Edit: By the way, the setups for both sides could have been much better, in my opinion.

[juntoalmar]

Hi,

I've been trying some kind of the same tactic, unsuccessfully. Mainly, because units don't get out of supply when stacked in a city, so it takes me a lot to destroy them.

I have never advanced so much in a turn... [:(] just half of it, at most!

[Courtenay]

It is possible to play the Soviets even worse; here is the position at the start of the J/A turn the one time I tried the Barbarossa scenario:

[Courtenay]

And here is the destroyed pool at the end of the M/J 41 turn.

I hope it is clear why I did not bother continuing this game.

[AlbertN]

Either in am too novice, or dunno ... but after 3 turns of Barbarossa for 2 games, no such results were achieved.
The Soviets simply stop the Germans with -extreme- ease very soon.

[micheljq]

I have over 20+ campaigns and find the USSR is the most challenging major power to play. Surviving on the first 2 years of Barbarossa is very difficult in this game.

My first try as USSR ended in a manner similar to you.

When playing Global War campaign USSR can retreat in the URALs and try to rebuild there.

In our actual campaign, the player listened to our advise. He did a far setup behind the Dnepr and had a good campaign until he met disaster in Sept-oct 1942 (he was attacked in may-june 1941).

He lost 81bp this turn (sept-oct 1942) and the turn is not ended already, we are playing impulse 8. Axis was very lucky on the weather rolls 4-4-5-2. Even so, we do not give up. He retreats on the Asian map with the rest of it's army and should be able to patch up in the winter.

Most players are doing the same mistakes.
1. Don't try to do the same thing as historical, you cannot in this game. You cannot afford losing large armies.
2. Do not setup on the frontier, it will be a disaster. Luftwaffe will ground strike most of your armies and you will be destroyed on the spot.
3. No heroes cities, it will be easy for the German to take them anyway, except Vitesk which is worth it, 4 rivers defending it.
4. No "speed bumps" or very little (MIL or GAR used to slowdown the german). If you do this you will see your army disintegrating fast. It's not working, many have tried, including me.
5. Setup far from ground strikes and hold the Dnepr for the setup, use Dnenopetrosk, but not Kiev.
6. Send your factories far away.
7. Hold a continual front if you can, that the german can only attack from 2 hexes. When the Luftwaffe's bombers are in the range with their fighters close, better give up land, retreat, stay in range where you can send your bombers for ground support without interception from Luftwaffe. Give up land, retreat in the URALs if need be, save your army for later (1943 and beyond things improve for you).

Michel.

[Centuur]

There is one problem with this. In the Barbarossa scenario, the USSR is forced to set up 20 corps within 2 hexes of the border... So you haven't got a choice here...

[Centuur]

Sorry, double...