New Babes Updates

[Symon]

All of DaBigBabes and DaIronBabes are updated. That's all of Scen028, 029, 030, A, B, and C versions.

ORIGINAL: berto
Will these data updates be retrofitted to the Babes PI, DEI & Guadalcanal scenarios?

The air files will drop right in. Will have to do some manual tweaking on device and locations files for these and BabesLite. BabesLite first, then I'll tackle the small map scenarios.

[rook749]

ORIGINAL: Symon


All of DaBigBabes and DaIronBabes are updated. That's all of Scen028, 029, 030, A, B, and C versions.

Woot! [&o]

Rook

[Mac Linehan]

John -

Thank You, Thank You, for your magnificent work. I won't be able to play until tomorrow night, and can hardly wait to do so.

Mac

[witpqs]

Thanks!

Got them. Also will be interested to see if the LI changes get applied (or how they get applied). Not sure when we will try it due to enemy HQ schedule ([:D]).

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Got them. Also will be interested to see if the LI changes get applied (or how they get applied). Not sure when we will try it due to enemy HQ schedule ([:D]).

LI and refinery stuff won't get ported into existing savegame stuff. Am putting a "How to Update - the whys, wherefors, and pitfalls" thing together. Here's part of it.

Note: Every update is different, depending on which dat files were modified. Some dat files update smoothly and easily. Others do not. For this specific scenario update set, the air and device (wpaxxx.dat and wpdxxx.dat) files update smoothly and easily. The locations (wplxxx.dat) file is one of those that do not. The new LI and refinery updates are in a certain place in the locations file. These data will NOT update to existing (ongoing) game files. This is because the economics engine is separate and independent, and the calculation basis is set on the first save of the scenario, and also because of their "secondary" placement in the Base panel.

Don't think this will hurt too much. One can always get the new supply with a restart. But I think it's a reasonable safety feature. Depending on where you are in the game, the economy has been chugging along, but all of a sudden the inputs change, places change, flow changes; the poor engine doesn't know what to do. So, it's best to leave certain aspects of the economy alone when updating.

JWE

[offenseman]

Completely understandable to leave that stuff alone. Thanks for the explanation as well as for the hard work and thought you have given to DaBabes. [&o]

[Mac Linehan]

ORIGINAL: offenseman

Completely understandable to leave that stuff alone. Thanks for the explanation as well as for the hard work and thought you have given to DaBabes. [&o]

Plus one on what offenseman said.

Also -

Can I extract the Babes 28 C v12 into the scenario folder and just overwrite the old v11 files in my Babes AE install?

Edit: Just found the "Babes Update Guide", I can just extract and overwrite the old v11 files. As I will be doing a restart on the game, there should be no problems.

Thank you for the Update Guide, Sir!

Mac

[offenseman]

ORIGINAL: Skyros

Hmm looks like I will have to ship more resources to the HI to compensate for the extra LI.

16050 more per day if my math is right. At game start, in DBB-C, Japan has an overall shortfall of 20500 resources per day. At game start that is means Japan runs out of resources on Honshu in ~190 days. After that LI and HI shut down on Honshu. That is only 7/42.

Conquering more in China does not help much as Chinese resource production is eaten up by Chinese LI.

Future conquests of the SRA, PI, etc (essentially historical conquests) still leave Japan short by 14100/day.
So in the first seven months of the war Japan has to find ways to conquer more areas in India, Northern Oz, etc that will give them another 14100 res/day. That is over 1400 resource factories. I do not see that much on the map unless a game is so mismatched that China and India or maybe Oz are conquered in their entirety.
Please tell me if my math is wrong! This is one instance where I want to be wrong.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: offenseman

ORIGINAL: Skyros

Hmm looks like I will have to ship more resources to the HI to compensate for the extra LI.

16050 more per day if my math is right. At game start, in DBB-C, Japan has an overall shortfall of 20500 resources per day. At game start that is means Japan runs out of resources on Honshu in ~190 days. After that LI and HI shut down on Honshu. That is only 7/42.

Conquering more in China does not help much as Chinese resource production is eaten up by Chinese LI.

Future conquests of the SRA, PI, etc (essentially historical conquests) still leave Japan short by 14100/day.
So in the first seven months of the war Japan has to find ways to conquer more areas in India, Northern Oz, etc that will give them another 14100 res/day. That is over 1400 resource factories. I do not see that much on the map unless a game is so mismatched that China and India or maybe Oz are conquered in their entirety.
Please tell me if my math is wrong! This is one instance where I want to be wrong.

I had the same thoughts, didn't do any calculation but my first thought really was where are all the ressources coming from when LI is supposed to produce the supply that refineries were producing earlier? My second thought then was if there would be more ressources to feed the LI all around, what compensates the huge need of fuel and ships to carry all those resources around? [&:]

I have seen quite a number of games being decided in late 43 because the IJ was running out of supply, completely. Now I really like it seeing supply being more problematic than in WITP but what gives seeing your PBEM ending in 43 because the IJ player runs out of supplies earlier than real life. And I don't mean the games where a crazy IJ player changes over two thousand aircraft factories and wonders why he is short of 2 mio+ supplies.

[Symon]

Allright, allright, sheesh. Don't you guys know about tanstaafl? [:D]

Ok, I'll back out the LI and just stick the supply in "daily supply". Kinda like what michaelm did for GJ's game. Will that make everything ducky?

won't take but a few minutes. I'll do it soon as I get the turkey in the oven.

[ny59giants]

I would add "daily supply" to those bases that Japan starts with Refineries at on Dec 7th.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I would add "daily supply" to those bases that Japan starts with Refineries at on Dec 7th.

what is "daily supply"? Is that the supply that shows up at bases automatically without having any industry? Wouldn't that make it even worse than refineries producing the supply? I mean, if refineries "produce" supply the enemy at least can destroy the refineries, but if it "magically" shows up at some base you can't do anything about it but to take the base. And refineries only "produce" supplies if there is oil to be refined. Autosupply would mean the 100% maximum you could crack out each and every day, no matter if damaged refineries or no oil at the base. [&:]

I don't want to be nitpicking or a pain, I just can't follow the logic behind it it seems.

[offenseman]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I would add "daily supply" to those bases that Japan starts with Refineries at on Dec 7th.

Great idea!

CT- that would be like Chungking's 500 sup/day.

[Symon]

ORIGINAL: castor troy
what is "daily supply"? Is that the supply that shows up at bases automatically without having any industry? Wouldn't that make it even worse than refineries producing the supply? I mean, if refineries "produce" supply the enemy at least can destroy the refineries, but if it "magically" shows up at some base you can't do anything about it but to take the base. And refineries only "produce" supplies if there is oil to be refined. Autosupply would mean the 100% maximum you could crack out each and every day, no matter if damaged refineries or no oil at the base. [&:]

I don't want to be nitpicking or a pain, I just can't follow the logic behind it it seems.

No. It won’t make it worse. The intent is to get rid of the fortress Palembang exploit. It would be nice if one could have refineries make supply in Japan and not elsewhere, but that won’t happen. So refineries don’t make supply.

There’s only a few major cities, and only in Japan, that get the freebies; Tokyo, Yokohama, Osaka, etc.. and not a lot at any one location, and only about 900 total/day. It simply restores the missing supply. Think of it as all the geisha houses busily making uniforms and rolling bandages. They can do that forever, and it doesn’t cost an extra 8100 resources a day to do it.

Just to prove I’m not a JFB, I kept about 200 of the additional LI, so people can bomb it and one will have to find the ships to move an additional 1800 resources/day to Japan to keep them running. It’s supposed to hurt. It’s a ski boot, not a moccasin.

That's it. Not going to change anything else.

[offenseman]

Sounds like a winner. [:D] Thanks John!

[Mac Linehan]

JWE -

Thank you for your patience and immediate support.

Enjoy your turkey, Sir!

offenseman - much appreciate your attention to detail.

Mac

[Skyros]

It just goes to show that we have to be careful what we wish for. It also demonstrates how much thought went in to balance things in this game.

Thanks for all you do.

ORIGINAL: Symon

Allright, allright, sheesh. Don't you guys know about tanstaafl? [:D]

Ok, I'll back out the LI and just stick the supply in "daily supply". Kinda like what michaelm did for GJ's game. Will that make everything ducky?

won't take but a few minutes. I'll do it soon as I get the turkey in the oven.

tanstaafl

[ny59giants]

Symon, I'm glad you went in between for the "daily supply" with some increase in LI. If I remember correctly, Japan had to balance what merchant ships could be lent to the navy for hauling troops to and fro vs hauling resources. I was kind of thinking along these lines after my last posting.

[LoBaron]

Perfect example for a quick and uncomplicated solution! Thanks JWE!

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Symon

ORIGINAL: castor troy
what is "daily supply"? Is that the supply that shows up at bases automatically without having any industry? Wouldn't that make it even worse than refineries producing the supply? I mean, if refineries "produce" supply the enemy at least can destroy the refineries, but if it "magically" shows up at some base you can't do anything about it but to take the base. And refineries only "produce" supplies if there is oil to be refined. Autosupply would mean the 100% maximum you could crack out each and every day, no matter if damaged refineries or no oil at the base. [&:]

I don't want to be nitpicking or a pain, I just can't follow the logic behind it it seems.

No. It won’t make it worse. The intent is to get rid of the fortress Palembang exploit. It would be nice if one could have refineries make supply in Japan and not elsewhere, but that won’t happen. So refineries don’t make supply.

There’s only a few major cities, and only in Japan, that get the freebies; Tokyo, Yokohama, Osaka, etc.. and not a lot at any one location, and only about 900 total/day. It simply restores the missing supply. Think of it as all the geisha houses busily making uniforms and rolling bandages. They can do that forever, and it doesn’t cost an extra 8100 resources a day to do it.

Just to prove I’m not a JFB, I kept about 200 of the additional LI, so people can bomb it and one will have to find the ships to move an additional 1800 resources/day to Japan to keep them running. It’s supposed to hurt. It’s a ski boot, not a moccasin.

That's it. Not going to change anything else.

ahh, that explains it to me. Thought you would add daily supply everywhere refineries are.