Custom USER data - British forces

[Tazak]

historic version B3

B3 Attached file in this post
A. Added the following formations;

1.Mechanized Infantry Battalion [wheeled]
2.Infantry Battalion (Light Role/TA)
3.Yeomanry Armoured Recce Regiment (TA)
4.Field Artillery Regiment-105mm (Towed/TA)
5.Field Artillery Regiment-155mm (Towed/TA)

B. Split Batttlegroup quick selection of Armoured Battlegroup into 2 types and infantry coy should now appear ahead of Rgt support coy (sorry tankies but infantry rate higher than support elements!!)
1. 2:1 BG of 2 sqn tanks, 1 coy inf
2. 2:2 BG of 2 sqn tanks, 2 coy inf

C. Updated various naming conventions so that’s they all follow correct British Army naming convention:
1. Tank Rgt – Sqn – Troop
2. Inf Bn – Coy – Platoon
3. Arty Rgt – Bty – Troop

D. Arty Bty HQ elements changed from 2x Inf recce to 1 Inf HQ & 1 Inf recce to better reflect the HQ element (<Divisional Assets> only, <BAOR Corps Assets> unchanged)
E. Changed Tank & Armoured Recce Sqn from ‘Battalion(II)’ to ‘Sqn(I)’ in “Is HQ Of” column G on formation tab
F. Updated Bde HQ with the following to better reflect actual TOE and higher command HQ status
1. Removed the lone Tank
2. Reduced the APCT from 6 down to 2
3. Added COMV*4
G. Div. Arm. Recce Regiment – B – reduced to 3 Recce Sqn with 4th Sqn now SP-ATGW Sqn (original version was 4 recce sqn the same as Div. Arm. Recce Regiment – A)

NOTES
A1. This represents a number of regular army units ear-marked to reinforce 1 British Corp in the event of war. Only BOAR units received FV432 and later the Warrior, these units used Saxon Wheeled APC as their battletaxi.
A2. A number of BOAR units were held to this TOE as were some UK based units in 2 Inf Div and the early 24th airmobile bde units.
A2. The TA Battalion has 4 Milian launchers (12 v.s. 16) less, so rather than spam formations with minor differences I kept these identical as it’s entirely possible that the TA units would get the extra launchers in wartime.
A3. 2 UK based units were ear-marked as BOAR reinforcements (1 under 2 Inf Div, the other under Corp command.
A4 & A5. There were a number of UK based Arty Rgt both regular and TA that were earmarked for BOAR reinforcements either as independent units or part of Inf Bdes.

[battlerbritain]

Thanks Tazak - looks good.

One typo though: it's BAOR not BOAR.

[Tazak]

ORIGINAL: battlerbritain

Thanks Tazak - looks good.

One typo though: it's BAOR not BOAR.

Well spotted will update in the next version.

Just reading over my own change notes, the Div. Arm. Recce Regiment type A & B need some clarification, both types have the same number/type of vehicles, it was just how they are organised.

Type A has the SPAT (Striker) distributed between the sqn’s (3 troops of CVRT & 1 troop of SPAT), this allowed the 4th CVRT troop to be moved to the 4th sqn. Type B regt however keep its SPAT in a single sqn while each reece sqn had 4 troops of CVRT

[Tazak]

Would like to discuss some up and coming changes to INF-HQ and 2” Mortar that I’m working on:

The 2” mortar is a hangover from WW2 and is one of the very few weapons to still be present and in use today although the 51mm L9 is a lighter ‘modern ‘version, quick story; British units in current conflicts went through the 51mm ammo so quick that it was identified that MOD defence procurement hadn’t order 51mm rounds recently that the factory making them closed its production line, it turned out to be more expensive to re-open that production line so the British army are looking for an updated version that fires 60mm rounds (it’s true, check the interwebs!!!)

But back on topic..first off let me start by training you in the use of the 51mm hand held Mortar that is held at Platoon HQ level in very infantry unit.

Elevation is judged by dialling in the range and then watching the integral spirit-level bubble which is on the lower left side of the ‘tube’, while azimuth is judged simply by looking along a white line painted up the barrel and unlike most mortars it has a trigger, which is activated by tugging a lanyard at the base of the tube.

Target 600m to your front, 5 rounds HE in your own time, fire…..Okay there might be a little more than that but the manual was about 5-6 pages (cover page, revisions history page, 1 intentionally blank page, rear cover) and I have no doubt that should anyone get their hands on a 51m m mortar the above explanation would give you a very reasonable shot (pun intended) at firing it.

Okay so while it does have an indirect fire capability, it is only issued at 1 per rifle Plt HQ within infantry battalions it would rarely/never been seen as an indirect fire support weapon outside of the platoon. To give an example of how we used it during live firing exercises, the platoon would be advancing to contact and comes across an ‘enemy dug in OP’, rather than wait minutes for the battalion 81mm mortars to fire (or was that more that we didn’t trust the mortar plt to hit the target instead of us) the platoon command would direct the 51mm to fire either smoke or HE in the very general area of the OP providing a very small suppression/smoke effect (compared to 81mm) but allowing the point section to deploy and start providing suppressive fire while the assault section would manoeuvre for a flanking attack on the OP, we often found it just was useful to move the L9 up to the point section and almost fire it as a direct fire weapon.

So the changes:
1. A new INF-HQ unit (INF-HQP – name TBC and subject to change). This will consist of 4 people (Plt Commander, Plt Sargent, radio operator, 51mm mortar operator), there will be 2 to match the current INF-HQ due to availability timelines
2. 2” mortar is removed as a separate weapon platform
3. 51mm L9 (MTR3) is changed from a ‘mortar’ unit to an’ Infantry Support Weapon’ similar to the 40mm GL

Why:
Firstly the INF-HQ at present represents 6 crew which is fine for Coy HQ and upwards and some armoured or supporting units low level HQs, but doesn’t accurately reflect the basic Inf Plt HQ. To create a 4 man HQ for Inf plt by its self is easy enough, however when you add MTR3 into its weapons you suddenly find every plt HQ appearing in the FS tab in game…not good especially when you see its range of 800m (1 hex)!!

By changing the 51mm L9 as above it allows it to be added into the new INF-HQP without the FS tab spam in game, while also better reflecting its actual use and it would be very rare for anyone to group the L9 into a fire support team/group similar to how the US army groups it 60mm, which from what I understand the US 60mm is more akin to the 81mm in terms of equipment/setup and usage.

Thoughts/comments

[battlerbritain]

Hmmm - my instinct is to say that at this scale don't even bother with the 51mm mortar, but if you do try option 3 - treat it as a GL.

[CapnDarwin]

I would go option 3 as well. You really don't want HQ units in the FS tab nor a target for more arty bombardment from CB fire.

[wodin]

Option 3

[Tazak]

Capn Darwin - Just noticed that Royal Marine Section (UK98) contains the MTR3, if you don't use the suggested L9 51mm changes above you might want to remove it incase a scenario designer adds a battalion of Royal Marines (27x UK98 with their MTR3 appearing in the FS tab would be funny [:D])

Also within the helicopter flight section I've spotted a typo in the scout helicopter fight, it lists a HS2 under ‘Composition’ which did not correspond to anything resulting in scenario designers not able to select a flight or sqn of scout helicopters. I believe it should read HS3

[Tazak]

historic version B4

B4 Attached file in this post
B4 change notes:
A. Added Anti-Tank (Airmobile) Infantry Battalion (89+)
B. Revised Airmobile Infantry Battalion (83+) by reducing the number of LAW80 teams (down from 12 to 3 per platoon)
C. Revised a number of ‘crew’ numbers in the units tab (key ones listed below)
1. Harrier reduced to single crew (2 seated variations were training aircraft)
2. MAW/LAW-80 reduced to 2 man teams
3. Milan reduced to 3 man teams
4. HMG reduced to 4 man teams
5. LMG reduced to 2 man teams
6. 2 inch mortar reduced to 2 man team
7. Blowpipe and Javelin teams reduced to 3 man teams
8. Towed & Static Rapier increased to 8 man section
9. 155mm FH-70 How reduced to 8 man
10. 175mm Gun Towed Artillery Gun reduced from 48 down to 12

[CapnDarwin]

Thanks for the info. I need to get over this cold, finish the mod guides, work some update tweaks and then I can update data for the 2.04 update in January.

[Tazak]

Folks,

just noticed a strange issue, one of the infantry was sporting a nuke.....

For some strange reason it appears I left a comma after the weapon loadout for UK91, this has the strange effect of equipping the unit with the last weapon from the weapons tab which in the British weapons tab was the W-70 Nuclear Warhead

i.e. on the units tab UK91 has the following weapons loadout:
SA2*80, ISW6*80, AT3*6, EXP2*16,
but should read
SA2*80, ISW6*80, AT3*6, EXP2*16

sorry for any issues caused, it can be corrected by removing the comma from the file, re-launching the scenario creator, loading the scenario and clicking on 'refresh underlying scenario data', this will update the scenario file with the correct weapons loadout.

EDIT: I've checked all versions and I only made the error in Version B5, I've removed the file and updated it with a B5a on the first post (no changes other than the typo correction)

[CapnDarwin]

Tazak,

I see one thing in your units that may cause unexpected game behavior or crashes. SU Types can only be the ones already defined in the tables. New SUType codes will not be recognized by the code (such as INF-LMG or INF-MMG). You can make new CompIDs to "separate" like items in formations. Such as LMG vs HMGs or similar.

As I update the in-game data with your info I'll let you know if I see any other glitches.

[Tazak]

Damn I thought it was going too well [:)], must admit I've been working on a few scenarios using the data set and not seen any strange 'effects'

Is there anyway to single out certain units within formations without limiting units by SUTag

[CapnDarwin]

The formations read off the CompIDs. Thus if you want to build variant formations you can call the INF-LMG and INF-MMG as you wish. That should be working fine as you have it. The game uses the SUTypes for a number of things in code to determine the type of unit and how it performs. You can also us the SUTag directly in a formation assignment (like UK117A) to force that unit in the formation.

The effects are probably non-issue with the LMG/MMG since most of the code looks for INF only, but the chance is there to be missed if a bad type is used. I will be adding pretty much all of these changes of yours into the 2.03 update for the UK along with the tweaks I have done for certain AD units and also fix the towed rapiers that are showing as self propelled. (whoops).

[Tazak]

Capn Darwin,

Thanks, I'll hold off with a new updated version I'm working as I'm toying with producing a 'locked down' version that provides actual units & their TOE for 1980/1985/1989 for scenario designers.

Although I would like to ask that a change is considered

1. Changed RKT1 WOMBAT from rocket(??) to Recoilless Rifle,
a. reduced effective range to 400 (down from 1200) in line with other weapons (effective range appears to be about 30% of max range for 'tank guns' which is the closest I can relate it to within the British data)
b. changed RKT1 to RCL1 and updated respective units weapon loadouts (UK61, UK173, UK174)
c. changed sound effect to tank gun.wav
d. removed SM, IL from specials
e. changed description and type from rocket to recoilless rifle
2. UK173 FV432 with WOMBAT changes:
a. Changed from SP-GUN to SPAT to reflect it role
3. UK174 WOMBAT Rover changes:
a. Changed availability end date to 1989 as it was still used in the Berlin Bde infantry units as well as some TA infantry Bn although these were mainly UK based/defence
b. Changed from SP-GUN to SPAT to reflect it role

Image taken from: http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost ... k-gun.html

[CapnDarwin]

Fixed all the Wombat, not sure how I messed up the code but nice catch. Only difference I had was Weapon Tag. I changed RKT1 to AT4 to place it with other RCL weapons used in game. Codes updated in all 3 units too. Need to finish updating the rest of the listing this weekend and get is shipped over to Rob for updating with all the scenarios.

[battlerbritain]

One other thing on the Brit data.

Am I right in reading the data correctly in that it says that the Chieftain and Challenger 1 both have 64 rounds of 120mm main gun ammo?

If so that is correct for the Chieftain - it could take 64 rounds if it used the external turret stowage racks to carry an extra 12 rounds. Normal internal max was 52 rounds.

The Challenger 1 had a max internal load of only 42 rounds.

I realise that bringing the Chally1 max dow from64 to 42 rounds could have a big scenario balance impact, so maybe make this an optional change?

Cheers for a great game,

B

[Tazak]

Battlerbritian, you are reading it correct but I haven't got that far down into the weeds yet, do you know what ammo stocks were kept at SQMS and RQMS level

As to game impact I'd say the optional aspect could be emergency resupply option on the game menu which bumps any unit up to 30% if it drops too low

[CapnDarwin]

No doubt I'm off in places or data got copies over wrong as I did with the tracked rapiers. If we have good established info that shows a number is off, I'm less concerned with a 53 should be 51, but 42 to 64 is a big enough error. As for balance a number of scenarios start with less than 100% ammo so you really need to pay attention to your conditions at start.

[Tazak]

Disregard figured it out