Production Convoy Settings Not Impressive

[Omnius]

ORIGINAL: markb50k


Yeah, its just a shot in the dark to see if it works. The thing is that the code may know that you only have a BP agreement so when you select a resource, it knows you arent trying to send the resource to the other country, but the BP that is produced from that resource. From a coding standpoint, I can see why you would want to allow for a single place to specify trade partner at an atomic level. It seems logical that all trade specifications (resource OR build point) should start from the initiating element (e.g. the resource)

markb50k,
Man you're really splitting hairs here. I seriously doubt that the program is going to look back at the supporting resource to check if a Build Point is being sent or not. I really think in this case the Build Point would be the starting element for trading a Build Point trade at an atomic level, why trace back to the resource since that would be extra work and yet more code to go wrong? It truly is a shot in the dark, let me know how your test goes.

Omnius

[Omnius]

Ingtar,
A good suggestion to use the Route map and to switch maps to see convoy pathing and clicking on that show unused convoy points is very helpful. I really do use that and I also check the actual pathing of convoys so I can see what route is being used and if it is using the sea areas I want it to or if it's using some other obtuse route I don't want it to. It really takes some work to straighten out the program's mess of convoy routing at times and the forms are rather useful in sorting out the problems the program creates when it rethinks routing, which is way too often.

Omnius

[markb50k]

Yeah, reading up on it, don't think it will work.

I wasnt taking into account production multiples which pretty much negate the 1:1 relationship between resource and build point. Nevermind.

So basically, unless someone can point me to it, there is no specific way in the GUI to actually determine which BPs get sent. You just have to rely on the code to do it for you. Obviously, at this point, that may be a fool's errand.

[Ingtar]

I agree. Try saving an oil resource that the planner insists is better used in production! I sometimes wish to scream in frustration. ("I know it costs me a build point. I need the oil more!")

[paulderynck]

deleted

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Omnius

Warspite1,
I'm deeply sorry that I totally misunderstood your +1 answer to my convoy routing the Japanese build point dilemma. Please disregard my previous arrogant and ignorant rant about your answer that at the time made no sense whatsoever to me.

I do hope that by complaining about the convoy routing I can help get it improved. It really drives me crazy that I get routing done the way I like and the next time I'm in the production planning screen it totally changes.

Omnius

warspite1

Apology accepted Omnius

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: Omnius

michaelbaldur,
Since it's very early in the Global War scenario that option has most definitely not been chosen. I'm not a total idiot and know that when that option is chosen that Japan no longer sends the BP to the USA.

Obviously you need to improve your reading comprehension, you should try working smart not harder so you don't make ignorant assumptions that someone is totally stupid. Go back and read my recent comments regarding this problem with markb50k, we seem to have figured out there is a problem regarding Japan sending a BP to the USA.

I used to do beta testing a long time ago and I was damned good at it, most likely better than you ever were or are. I appreciate your trying to help but you really insulted me that I hadn't thought of option 13 stopping the BP trade.

Omnius

don´t like your tone. even if you are frustrated with the game. there is no excuse for that

and the work hard is a joke. I a 6 year veteran, and after steve i´m the guy who have spend most time on the game.


so a apology would be appreciated

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: markb50k

Yeah, reading up on it, don't think it will work.

I wasnt taking into account production multiples which pretty much negate the 1:1 relationship between resource and build point. Nevermind.

So basically, unless someone can point me to it, there is no specific way in the GUI to actually determine which BPs get sent. You just have to rely on the code to do it for you. Obviously, at this point, that may be a fool's errand.

Traded build points are sent from one capital to the other capital.

Build points exist in the abstract most of the time. It is only when they are saved that an actual build point is 'created' by the program. Otherwise they are like offensive chits and entry markers: just accounting entries.

[markb50k]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Traded build points are sent from one capital to the other capital.

Build points exist in the abstract most of the time. It is only when they are saved that an actual build point is 'created' by the program. Otherwise they are like offensive chits and entry markers: just accounting entries.

Ok fair enough. So then why would the program not send build points when a path is clear between capitals with available transport? This is the situation in my case.

Or do I just need to wait until production planning final to see the BPs moving to satisfy the trade agreement. As of right now in the middle of an impulse only the saved BPs are showing as being Trade Sent

Thanks

[Omnius]

michaelbaldur,
Sorry I got a bit annoyed with you, but your suggestion was an insult even though I know you intended to be helpful. So I hope you'll apologize for not thinking I had a clue about what I was talking about.

If you look at Shannon's answer a few messages down you'll find out I was correct about there being a problem with Japan sending a Build Point to the USA, it has to be a saved BP - not one in current production. This really should have been made more clear in the documentation and I hope that at least the PDF file manuals get updated to give us the exact method of how to send Japanese build points to the USA.

Looks like I did some good beta testing after purchasing the program, my beta testing skills have not diminished from being able to spot problems with game programs.

Omnius

[Omnius]

Shannon,
I understand your answer but somehow I'm not buying it. I have a problem with shipping Japan's trade agreement Build Point to the USA despite there being a valid convoy chain of Japanese and USA convoy points. However I did not see a problem with the German BP getting sent to the USSR. I still wonder if there's some kind of problem here that allows a current production BP sent from Germany to the USSR automatically from turn 1 yet not from Japan to the USA.

I'll now have to look at the German/USSR trade agreement to double check that Germany is sending it's Build Point to the USSR. I thought I glanced at that number and it looked okay, but now I'll double check it.

This really needs to be fixed so that current production BP's can be traded to other countries without having to first save one before being able to send it. Otherwise the trade agreement is basically worthless since the USA can't enforce Japan sending the BP. That begs the question of why we're not getting a warning from the program that Japan is in violation of the trade agreement.

Is the enforcement programming broken too? Plus if we have to wait until we have a saved Build Point to send then shouldn't you update the PDF manual to tell players of this new method so they don't get frustrated trying to figure out this problem?

Omnius

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: Omnius

michaelbaldur,
Sorry I got a bit annoyed with you, but your suggestion was an insult even though I know you intended to be helpful. So I hope you'll apologize for not thinking I had a clue about what I was talking about.

If you look at Shannon's answer a few messages down you'll find out I was correct about there being a problem with Japan sending a Build Point to the USA, it has to be a saved BP - not one in current production. This really should have been made more clear in the documentation and I hope that at least the PDF file manuals get updated to give us the exact method of how to send Japanese build points to the USA.

Looks like I did some good beta testing after purchasing the program, my beta testing skills have not diminished from being able to spot problems with game programs.

Omnius

being right is not a excuse for using that kind of languages

[markb50k]

Omnius,

I think you are misinterpreting Steve's response. I think he was responding simply to my theory of designating BPs, and saying that it would not be doable since the game, for the most part, treats BPs as abstract numbers most of the time.

Your problem IS a problem, and proof of that is the fact that Germany->Russia works fine and it is moving the 'abstract' BPs not the saved ones. I appreciate Steve even responding to the thread, but honestly, his answer was a response to a tangent of this discussion and he pretty much dodged the big question: "is it a bug and are you doing something about it"

[Nykodemos]

Hi all, My first post...

I've read through (I think) all the posts, and there if there is still a question about how to set up Japanese and American Convoys to get 1 BP to US from Japan (prior to US Entry Actions being taken) I believe I understand the issue you are having.

Japan needs to set up 5 convoys in the Japanese Coast Sea Zone. Setting up 1 Japanese CVP in each sea zone does not help.
Meanwhile, the US needs to set up 5 CVP in each sea zone from there on (Central Pacific, Hawaiian, Mendocino and West Coast). 4 in the Japanese Coast does not help.

Why is the game functioning this way? That is how the rule is in the table-top game. US needs to have the 5 CVP in those sea zones, and Japan needs the 5 CVP in the one sea zone. Why like this? Um... wish I knew specifically. I *think* it has to do with US potentially losing a lot of convoys if Japan DoWs early. Not that that should be what determines a DoW from Japan in my personal opinion.

Based on the time I've played WiFFinal (again, the table-top version)... you should not need to have a saved BP to send. Mind you, I've only just started playing the computer version.

Meanwhile, I'm wrestling with getting Commonwealth resources to my preferred factories... and having my own frustrations. On to search for that solution!

-Nykodemos

[markb50k]

ORIGINAL: Nykodemos

Hi all, My first post...

I've read through (I think) all the posts, and there if there is still a question about how to set up Japanese and American Convoys to get 1 BP to US from Japan (prior to US Entry Actions being taken) I believe I understand the issue you are having.

Japan needs to set up 5 convoys in the Japanese Coast Sea Zone. Setting up 1 Japanese CVP in each sea zone does not help.
Meanwhile, the US needs to set up 5 CVP in each sea zone from there on (Central Pacific, Hawaiian, Mendocino and West Coast). 4 in the Japanese Coast does not help.

Why is the game functioning this way? That is how the rule is in the table-top game. US needs to have the 5 CVP in those sea zones, and Japan needs the 5 CVP in the one sea zone. Why like this? Um... wish I knew specifically. I *think* it has to do with US potentially losing a lot of convoys if Japan DoWs early. Not that that should be what determines a DoW from Japan in my personal opinion.

Based on the time I've played WiFFinal (again, the table-top version)... you should not need to have a saved BP to send. Mind you, I've only just started playing the computer version.

Meanwhile, I'm wrestling with getting Commonwealth resources to my preferred factories... and having my own frustrations. On to search for that solution!

-Nykodemos

I think all are in agreement on the doctrine that needs to be followed to make it work (i.e. 5 CPs etc). What is still at odds is whether there is a bug that when all the proper steps are followed it still does NOT send the BP. I am quite sure there is a bug here.

[Nykodemos]

If you have the 5 CP (er CVP = Carrier Plane... sorry, my Acronym ability is rusty) put in place by Japan in the Japanese Coast, and 5 CP by US in the rest, and you still are not getting the BP? In my experience as a WiFFinal player, that should be a bug.

Hopefully I'm not just beating a dead horse at this point... [X(]

[markb50k]

ORIGINAL: Nykodemos

If you have the 5 CP (er CVP = Carrier Plane... sorry, my Acronym ability is rusty) put in place by Japan in the Japanese Coast, and 5 CP by US in the rest, and you still are not getting the BP? In my experience as a WiFFinal player, that should be a bug.

Hopefully I'm not just beating a dead horse at this point... [X(]

Even if you are, no biggie. Welcome to the board!

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Omnius

michaelbaldur,
Sorry I got a bit annoyed with you, but your suggestion was an insult even though I know you intended to be helpful. So I hope you'll apologize for not thinking I had a clue about what I was talking about.

If you look at Shannon's answer a few messages down you'll find out I was correct about there being a problem with Japan sending a Build Point to the USA, it has to be a saved BP - not one in current production. This really should have been made more clear in the documentation and I hope that at least the PDF file manuals get updated to give us the exact method of how to send Japanese build points to the USA.

Looks like I did some good beta testing after purchasing the program, my beta testing skills have not diminished from being able to spot problems with game programs.

Omnius

Your rudeness is incredible. It's surprising anyone here is bothering to try and assist you.

You think he should apologize? Did you re-read what you wrote to him? Not to mention how many others that offered suggestions. They don't know if you are a Noob or not.

Yeah the production and convoy routing and supply has some problems. We get that.

It's a game. Stop behaving like a spoiled child.

[jesperpehrson]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

ORIGINAL: Omnius

michaelbaldur,
Sorry I got a bit annoyed with you, but your suggestion was an insult even though I know you intended to be helpful. So I hope you'll apologize for not thinking I had a clue about what I was talking about.

If you look at Shannon's answer a few messages down you'll find out I was correct about there being a problem with Japan sending a Build Point to the USA, it has to be a saved BP - not one in current production. This really should have been made more clear in the documentation and I hope that at least the PDF file manuals get updated to give us the exact method of how to send Japanese build points to the USA.

Looks like I did some good beta testing after purchasing the program, my beta testing skills have not diminished from being able to spot problems with game programs.

Omnius

Your rudeness is incredible. It's surprising anyone here is bothering to try and assist you.

You think he should apologize? Did you re-read what you wrote to him? Not to mention how many others that offered suggestions. They don't know if you are a Noob or not.

Yeah the production and convoy routing and supply has some problems. We get that.

It's a game. Stop behaving like a spoiled child.

+1

[Shannon V. OKeets]

The last time I looked at this problem (it was reported by a beta tester with a saved game and instructions on how to reproduce) the BP was not being sent because the US player had set up a convoy next to the Philippines and the program was routing the Philippines resource back to the US for production. That was using the convoys intended for the BP. Setting the Philippines resource to a Default of Idle fixed that and the BP was sent as usual. Removing the convoy from sea area next to the Philippines would have worked too.

Perhaps this is that problem. Perhaps it is something different.

I intend to 'lock/dedicate' the US convoys for the transfer of the US-Japan resources and BP so they can't be usurped for any other reason. The Japanese convoys are already coded to do that. This isn't high on my priority list because there are two work-arounds.

On the other hand, if this is something new, then it needs more of my attention.

EDIT: By the way, using the insert global map on the Production Planning form, you can click on a sea area to filter the list of resources going through the sea area. That helps identify what the convoys in the sea areas are actually doing. You might need to be using the Route Layout - I'm not sure.