IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release

[Omnius]

I like the concept of Netplay where we can play the game in real time with another gamer. It will be really nice when we can have up to 6 people playing one game, then again getting 6 people to be able to play online at the same time can be tough for scheduling.

I like the Netplay concept far better than playing PBEM. I gave up on PBEM play because it's just too easy to cheat by saving and doing reruns of important dice rolls.

Omnius

[Zorachus99]

ORIGINAL: Omnius

I like the concept of Netplay where we can play the game in real time with another gamer. It will be really nice when we can have up to 6 people playing one game, then again getting 6 people to be able to play online at the same time can be tough for scheduling.

I like the Netplay concept far better than playing PBEM. I gave up on PBEM play because it's just too easy to cheat by saving and doing reruns of important dice rolls.

Omnius

Four is very reasonable however!

It is great to play this game with opponents and someone to plot with.

Brings the best out in your play.

[abulbulian]

BWheatley and I have been playing a lot of MWiF Netplay over the past week, or as much as BWheatley's wife will let him [:(]. We both understand the complexity involved in a game like this, however, there's still a lot of frustration when we run across bugs which force us to either restart save (crash), skip a step (i.e. certain bombing missions), or find bizarre workaround to get game to go forward. Here's are some of the issues we've experience so far. Believe documented on forum, but Bwheatley and I would be happy to elaborate on any of them.

Overrunning ships in port - crash
Resolving bombing missions (w/o escort) - crash
Bessarabia claim (allow or disallow) - no effect
Neutrality Pact Screen (German marker placement) - window frozen
partisans - placement on enemy air cause crash after air lost
shatter result taken - defender not removed
non-phasing play can make attacks with phasing units (just trust opponent [:-])

These along with some other mysterious and non-reproducible crashes have made it somewhat painful to get through first turn. Ok, not through it yet. Still need to do production. The really odd thing given all these issues is that I still want to play on. Maybe that's because I'm also a board gamer and enjoy the global strategy war games. Was a play tester for 'A World At War' (board game) and interested to see the how MWiF plays out.

Erik, really hope that the NetPlay issues that still exist are fixed with prompt extreme prejudice. Believe that they will. BWheatley and I are happy to help expedite the process if possible.

My only suggestion at this point would be to see a little more feedback in the Tech Support forum related to what bugs are validated and are going to be fixed. That feedback could help facilitate more documentation, if for say one of the bugs BWheatley and I submitted was not taken seriously. [:(]

Disclaimer: in my posts have had some bouts with negativity due to NetPlay frustrations, but excited for MWiF to be successful and continue to improve

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

BWheatley and I have been playing a lot of MWiF Netplay over the past week, or as much as BWheatley's wife will let him [:(]. We both understand the complexity involved in a game like this, however, there's still a lot of frustration when we run across bugs which force us to either restart save (crash), skip a step (i.e. certain bombing missions), or find bizarre workaround to get game to go forward. Here's are some of the issues we've experience so far. Believe documented on forum, but Bwheatley and I would be happy to elaborate on any of them.

Overrunning ships in port - crash
Resolving bombing missions (w/o escort) - crash
Bessarabia claim (allow or disallow) - no effect
Neutrality Pact Screen (German marker placement) - window frozen
partisans - placement on enemy air cause crash after air lost
shatter result taken - defender not removed
non-phasing play can make attacks with phasing units (just trust opponent [:-])

These along with some other mysterious and non-reproducible crashes have made it somewhat painful to get through first turn. Ok, not through it yet. Still need to do production. The really odd thing given all these issues is that I still want to play on. Maybe that's because I'm also a board gamer and enjoy the global strategy war games. Was a play tester for 'A World At War' (board game) and interested to see the how MWiF plays out.

Erik, really hope that the NetPlay issues that still exist are fixed with prompt extreme prejudice. Believe that they will. BWheatley and I are happy to help expedite the process if possible.

My only suggestion at this point would be to see a little more feedback in the Tech Support forum related to what bugs are validated and are going to be fixed. That feedback could help facilitate more documentation, if for say one of the bugs BWheatley and I submitted was not taken seriously. [:(]

Disclaimer: in my posts have had some bouts with negativity due to NetPlay frustrations, but excited for MWiF to be successful and continue to improve

I've fixed 2 of these NetPlay bugs in the past week: shatter and enemy controlling attacks. I also fixed a major problem with DOW on minors. I've been working on the NetPlay bugs with overruns generating a naval interception and naval combat in general.

It takes me time to respond to individual posts about bugs. That's because to say anything intelligent I need to first understand the problem (which typically requires gathering more information) and then try to reproduce it myself. Only then can I discuss it without simply guessing as to the cause and whether I can fix it. Most of my replies without doing my homework first would be along the lines of 'Interesting', which doesn't do anyone any good.

My progress through emailed reports has been substantial. I've cleared 92% of those in the first 10 days and 93% of those in the next week. But I still have two more weeks to work my way through, where I've got 25% and 35% remaining to be investigated.

Over the past week Paul has created and maintained a spreadsheet of the problems reported in Tech Support - which has been a big help. I asked for and he gave me his list of the top NetPlay problems. I had my own list and I merged the two. We'll weave your list into that mix.

The NetPlay bugs are not related to the processing of the sequence of play, but rather to the information flows between the two computers so both of them 'know' what has happened on the other computer. There are 4 information queues (buffering, etc.) which the program maintains on both computers and those appear to be bug free - since before the game was released. The weird little stuff (e.g., claims, digressions, neutrality pacts) requires special handling in some cases. In many other cases, it executes without any extra code being necessary expressly for NetPlay.

I work on MWIF every day. Most of the massive waves of communications I received after the initial release have abated and I'm getting more "real work" done these days.

Please install each new update - there will be at least one a week for the next couple of weeks - and provide us with feedback on bugs you encounter.

[abulbulian]

Thanks Shannon
I do understand that the process of fixing a bug requires steps and can take a while depending on the blocks in the process. BWheatley and I will continue to provide you with whatever documentation that might be helpful. Nobody wants to rush a fix that could cause some sort of regression. Has there been a date set for release of 1.06? The fixes in that patch already set?

[AxelNL]

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Thanks Shannon
I do understand that the process of fixing a bug requires steps and can take a while depending on the blocks in the process. BWheatley and I will continue to provide you with whatever documentation that might be helpful. Nobody wants to rush a fix that could cause some sort of regression. Has there been a date set for release of 1.06? The fixes in that patch already set?

Perhaps you should apply to be a betatester (if those positions are still open). Looks like you can add quite some value, and we would be able to discuss a bit more freely with you.

[Sabre21]

Both abulbulian and bwheatly were on the WitE beta team and work well as testers and know quite well how to chase down bugs. There are several of us that have tested at one time or another and would like to see this game be as successful as possible. We don't need to be official testers, just ensure we put down as specific data as possible with a savegame attached to your post with step by step instructions on how to duplicate the problem. Remember with netplay, they probably need the same savegames from both players.

Steve has a daunting task, so the more explicit the info, the better for him and his test team.

[abulbulian]

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Both abulbulian and bwheatly were on the WitE beta team and work well as testers and know quite well how to chase down bugs. There are several of us that have tested at one time or another and would like to see this game be as successful as possible. We don't need to be official testers, just ensure we put down as specific data as possible with a savegame attached to your post with step by step instructions on how to duplicate the problem. Remember with netplay, they probably need the same savegames from both players.

Steve has a daunting task, so the more explicit the info, the better for him and his test team.

Thanks Sabre
Yes, Bill and I don't do it for accolades or free stuff. We have always paid full price for games we've tested and do it to support the small community of gamers that want to see computer war games flourish.

Given we're not in the complete loop as MWiF beta-testers, communication will be very important. Which means Bill and I will do our best to document the issues we find with screen-shots and saved games. My guess is Shannon and/or Erik(?) will get back to us if anything else is needed to address the issue.

If a game of this magnitude could get this far with the small resources (consider man hrs for games like CoD), I believe the rest should be downhill. [8D]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Thanks Shannon
I do understand that the process of fixing a bug requires steps and can take a while depending on the blocks in the process. BWheatley and I will continue to provide you with whatever documentation that might be helpful. Nobody wants to rush a fix that could cause some sort of regression. Has there been a date set for release of 1.06? The fixes in that patch already set?

I do so dislike making predictions about releases.[;)] My track record on that score is very sad.[:(]

[abulbulian]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Thanks Shannon
I do understand that the process of fixing a bug requires steps and can take a while depending on the blocks in the process. BWheatley and I will continue to provide you with whatever documentation that might be helpful. Nobody wants to rush a fix that could cause some sort of regression. Has there been a date set for release of 1.06? The fixes in that patch already set?

I do so dislike making predictions about releases.[;)] My track record on that score is very sad.[:(]

understood

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: abulbulian
Erik, really hope that the NetPlay issues that still exist are fixed with prompt extreme prejudice. Believe that they will. BWheatley and I are happy to help expedite the process if possible.

My only suggestion at this point would be to see a little more feedback in the Tech Support forum related to what bugs are validated and are going to be fixed. That feedback could help facilitate more documentation, if for say one of the bugs BWheatley and I submitted was not taken seriously. [:(]

Disclaimer: in my posts have had some bouts with negativity due to NetPlay frustrations, but excited for MWiF to be successful and continue to improve

We are keeping NetPlay as our top priority each week, though progress on other issues has to contine as well. I apologize for the state of NetPlay. We will continue working on it based on your reports and those of the testers until the issues are resolved.

Regards,

- Erik

[ParJ]

Erik/Steve,

I'm sure you're doing whatever you can to sort out and correct the issues, both NetPlay and other bugs. Keep up the good work to improve this game!

What I'm missing is a list of acknowledged bugs and issues, limitations and deviations from the printed and PDF manuals. Either include this in the ReadMe for the updates or summarize it somewhere in this forum (better, more visible). I'm thinking stuff like not being able to play more than 1 person per side, not able to swap unit places the way that it's mentioned in the manual, missing JP trade build point (at least in turn 1, not shown as in page 224 in vol I), undocumented default defaults in production planning, china supply issue and anything else that has been reported and being investigated. Plus some kind of warning that people should not purchase the product right now unless the are willing to participate in testing.

I don't really care if it will take 6 months or a year before I can play Net Play with 3-5 friends and I'll even recommend that they buy the game, but people should know what they are spending their money on right now. That's not clear unless you spend hours to read through the articles here.

[bwheatley]

Believe me shannon. I am sorry i was not active enough with my WIF beta access, before it got revoked, to help this stuff along more. Life got in the way but i would have loved to help get these things fixed before launch day.

I also appreciate the coders life as a developer myself I know it's a lot of work. So I try and temper my frustration with the knowledge that it's hard but it's got to get better. I don't know the full process on why the game was released in the state it is but damn it's a disappointment at times. I hope it's going to be similar to WITE where it gets some love and in a year it's top notch.

Anyway good luck!

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

BWheatley and I have been playing a lot of MWiF Netplay over the past week, or as much as BWheatley's wife will let him [:(]. We both understand the complexity involved in a game like this, however, there's still a lot of frustration when we run across bugs which force us to either restart save (crash), skip a step (i.e. certain bombing missions), or find bizarre workaround to get game to go forward. Here's are some of the issues we've experience so far. Believe documented on forum, but Bwheatley and I would be happy to elaborate on any of them.

Overrunning ships in port - crash
Resolving bombing missions (w/o escort) - crash
Bessarabia claim (allow or disallow) - no effect
Neutrality Pact Screen (German marker placement) - window frozen
partisans - placement on enemy air cause crash after air lost
shatter result taken - defender not removed
non-phasing play can make attacks with phasing units (just trust opponent [:-])

These along with some other mysterious and non-reproducible crashes have made it somewhat painful to get through first turn. Ok, not through it yet. Still need to do production. The really odd thing given all these issues is that I still want to play on. Maybe that's because I'm also a board gamer and enjoy the global strategy war games. Was a play tester for 'A World At War' (board game) and interested to see the how MWiF plays out.

Erik, really hope that the NetPlay issues that still exist are fixed with prompt extreme prejudice. Believe that they will. BWheatley and I are happy to help expedite the process if possible.

My only suggestion at this point would be to see a little more feedback in the Tech Support forum related to what bugs are validated and are going to be fixed. That feedback could help facilitate more documentation, if for say one of the bugs BWheatley and I submitted was not taken seriously. [:(]

Disclaimer: in my posts have had some bouts with negativity due to NetPlay frustrations, but excited for MWiF to be successful and continue to improve

I've fixed 2 of these NetPlay bugs in the past week: shatter and enemy controlling attacks. I also fixed a major problem with DOW on minors. I've been working on the NetPlay bugs with overruns generating a naval interception and naval combat in general.

It takes me time to respond to individual posts about bugs. That's because to say anything intelligent I need to first understand the problem (which typically requires gathering more information) and then try to reproduce it myself. Only then can I discuss it without simply guessing as to the cause and whether I can fix it. Most of my replies without doing my homework first would be along the lines of 'Interesting', which doesn't do anyone any good.

My progress through emailed reports has been substantial. I've cleared 92% of those in the first 10 days and 93% of those in the next week. But I still have two more weeks to work my way through, where I've got 25% and 35% remaining to be investigated.

Over the past week Paul has created and maintained a spreadsheet of the problems reported in Tech Support - which has been a big help. I asked for and he gave me his list of the top NetPlay problems. I had my own list and I merged the two. We'll weave your list into that mix.

The NetPlay bugs are not related to the processing of the sequence of play, but rather to the information flows between the two computers so both of them 'know' what has happened on the other computer. There are 4 information queues (buffering, etc.) which the program maintains on both computers and those appear to be bug free - since before the game was released. The weird little stuff (e.g., claims, digressions, neutrality pacts) requires special handling in some cases. In many other cases, it executes without any extra code being necessary expressly for NetPlay.

I work on MWIF every day. Most of the massive waves of communications I received after the initial release have abated and I'm getting more "real work" done these days.

Please install each new update - there will be at least one a week for the next couple of weeks - and provide us with feedback on bugs you encounter.

[bwheatley]

HAH I can appreciate that. You miss a date and you get crucified or thrown under a bus.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Thanks Shannon
I do understand that the process of fixing a bug requires steps and can take a while depending on the blocks in the process. BWheatley and I will continue to provide you with whatever documentation that might be helpful. Nobody wants to rush a fix that could cause some sort of regression. Has there been a date set for release of 1.06? The fixes in that patch already set?

I do so dislike making predictions about releases.[;)] My track record on that score is very sad.[:(]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

HAH I can appreciate that. You miss a date and you get crucified or thrown under a bus.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Thanks Shannon
I do understand that the process of fixing a bug requires steps and can take a while depending on the blocks in the process. BWheatley and I will continue to provide you with whatever documentation that might be helpful. Nobody wants to rush a fix that could cause some sort of regression. Has there been a date set for release of 1.06? The fixes in that patch already set?

I do so dislike making predictions about releases.[;)] My track record on that score is very sad.[:(]

I've had bleeding palms and tread marks.[:D]