1.07.12 supply bug?

[Peltonx]

I played 30+ games and never had supply issues in north. Sure units are low, but HQ's with nothing in them?

The issue with XXXIX Corp is I made air drops and its got nothing same for units.

Server game Peltonx vs Bozo_the_Clown

[Peltonx]

Same for XXXXVII

This is turn 3 when I opened it. All games in past the HQ's would have 45-50 MP's and units 10-20.

[Peltonx]

Also can you check this battle the odds seem completely not normal.

2 panzer divisions hit by even the best SHC troops generally are lucky to get the old 1v1=2v1 or 3 to 1

4.6 to 1 seem out of wack.

This is not the first counter attack I have lost, but the odds seem odd to say the least.

[Peltonx]

So both the north and center have far less fuel and supplies then normal, not a little less but nothing.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Also can you check this battle the odds seem completely not normal.

How come? I get these results all the time. Don't forget fatigue. There was a lot of combat before your troops were able to cross the river. There they were greeted by my best units.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

Also can you check this battle the odds seem completely not normal.

How come? I get these results all the time. Don't forget fatigue. There was a lot of combat before your troops were able to cross the river. There they were greeted by my best units.

Like I said I have played 30 plus games vs Flaviusx, MT, Kamil, Hoooper, Saper and Bobo to name a few - them are not normal odds. The fact that you won is 100% normal, but the odds are not.

I am guesing its whatever bug is effecting supplies, kinda why the thread is about a supply bug and not combat ratio's

Chances are the supply bug effect's ammo ect ect.

When you open a turn and units have 1 and 2 MP's something is way off.

This is normal MP's in a quick test under 1.07.11 or any game before 1.07.12

[Peltonx]

I thought something might have been off on turn 2 as MP's seemed 10-15 MP's lower then normal.

This is what center NORMALLY LOOKS LIKE.

this is from 1.07.11

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Like I said I have played 30 plus games vs Flaviusx, MT, Kamil, Hoooper, Saper and Bobo to name a few - them are not normal odds.

How can you determine what "normal odds" are? There are so many variables. The most logical explanation would be fatigue because your units had to plow through a field of airborne brigades etc. before they could reach the river. Then they had to attack across the river and move over the river an attack some more.

Curious to see what the answer from tech support is. I guess the game is on hold until we get an answer.

[Peltonx]

I think HQ's are returning supplies or something, because the turn after you do a HQBU the HQ's are empty. Normally they have 200-300 fuel and 1000+ supplies + units topped off the following turn after a HQBU is done.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

Like I said I have played 30 plus games vs Flaviusx, MT, Kamil, Hoooper, Saper and Bobo to name a few - them are not normal odds.

How can you determine what "normal odds" are? There are so many variables. The most logical explanation would be fatigue because your units had to plow through a field of airborne brigades etc. before they could reach the river. Then they had to attack across the river and move over the river an attack some more.

Curious to see what the answer from tech support is. I guess the game is on hold until we get an answer.

Dude the units that crossed the river made 1 attack, I have more then 1 division in the north, looks at the map P

After 30+ games I know what normal is you can whine all you like. I done this opening 30+ times I know for a fact based on data what normal is.

The post is about supplies so stay on topic or start your own thread.

AGN: The units in 30+ games have 10-20 MP's and the Corp HQ I drop fuel to have 30+ MP's
AGC: The units have 10-20 MP's not 2 MP's

Facts and Data Bozo not whining find bugs, I have exp finding allot of bugs.

I know when something is off based on 1000's of hrs of play time.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Any problems like this in the south?

[Peltonx]

Lower then normal Mp's, I have a divisions in same Corp one with 48 Mp's and one with 31.

Also a hole Corp with 30-33 and they are only 19 MP's from railhead.

20% low I say from normal going by my .11 test.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

After 30+ games I know what normal is you can whine all you like. I done this opening 30+ times I know for a fact based on data what normal is.

I'm not whining. I'm just curious why you think it's not "normal" and how you determine what "normal" is. No need to be rude again.

I'm waiting for the answer from tech support. I'm as curious as you.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

After 30+ games I know what normal is you can whine all you like. I done this opening 30+ times I know for a fact based on data what normal is.

I'm not whining. I'm just curious why you think it's not "normal" and how you determine what "normal" is. No need to be rude again.

I'm waiting for the answer from tech support. I'm as curious as you.

Based on allot of exp, it could be by allot of bad rolls vs good rolls you got them odds.

The win is normal, but odds are not.

The real issue is the general lack of fuel and no fuel when the units in the past had 10-20 or more.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

Very nice work Morvael, I got some questions.

ORIGINAL: Andrew Loveridge
3. Formula Change - Improved the formula which decides whether a unit should be motorized or not. By default all armor, mechanized, motorized, SP artillery, HQ and airbase units will be motorized. Support units attached to motorized combat units will be also motorized (such units will be demotorized when attached back to HQ, unless it’s their natural state). Units containing “Motorized “ or “SP “ in their TOE suffix will be also motorized (this is for flavor, to make units like “Motorized Flak Battalion” or “LW Motorized Flak Battalion” or “LW SP Light Flak Battalion” show up as motorized). It may require advancing to the next turn for the motorized status to adjust properly. Previously, support units attached to motorized combat units had requirements like motorized units, but their motorized status was still showing up as non-motorized.

What's the actual impact of this? Does this mean that up to now the pressure on the vehicle pools from tear and wear were substantially lower than it should?

ORIGINAL: Andrew
1. Fixed a bug with some support units attached to HQ units being resupplied nearly for free. For example a support unit had 132 tons of supply added at a cost of just 1 supply dump from the HQ; also all needs below 1 ton (2000lbs) were resupplied for free.
2. Fixed a bug with HQ units reporting their supply needs as fuel needs. When the supply stock was above 100% of supply needs, this generated negative fuel need and reduced global cost of moving supplies in vehicles and fuel.
3. Fixed a bug with support units attached to combat units, and construction units attached to FBD/NKPS units, not reporting their needs to proper HQ unit, causing said HQ to have supply shortages when it shouldn’t.
4. Fixed a bug with support units attached to combat units not being able to return excess fuel.
5. Fixed a bug with support units attached to combat units to always require fuel (even when full), if another support unit created earlier, attached to the same combat unit, required fuel.
6. Fixed a bug with support units attached to combat units to generate higher vehicle need (1/10 of their parent unit vehicles, instead of 1/10 of their own vehicles) and with support units attached to HQs to generate lower vehicle need (0 instead of 1/10 of their own vehicles).
27. Fixed a bug with units not on buildup and having trucks equal to their need not to respond to truck shortage by giving up their vehicles.
36. Hiwis and pilots in airbases and soldiers in damaged elements will now eat.
37. Hiwis will now require trucks to carry them in motorized units.
38. Horses will now eat half of fodder even when stationary, with the other half reserved for paying for movement.
39. Infantry elements in cavalry units will now require horse wagons to carry them.

#2 Looks to me as a quite important thing, that goes a long way to explain why logistics seemed so easy to me. #38 is also quite big, as both the Soviet and the German army rely quite a bit on horse-drawn carriages, this would make generic supply less abundant as well. Has this - and the rest of the fixes which might seem minor but kind of accumulate - made a noticeable difference in the gameplay?

ORIGINAL: Andrew
55. Fixed a bug with secondary (other than in first slot) weapons in ground elements that belong to infantry and mechanized infantry classes having much reduced chance to fire. The idea behind the rule was to limit effectiveness of secondary weapons, like machine guns on tanks and side arms of gun crews, but it doesn’t look realistic when a 10-man squad armed with 8 rifles, a single SMG and a single LMG is severely limited in using that SMG and LMG, which are actually operated by dedicated soldiers.
56. Fixed a bug where large blast weapons (blast 10 and above) were limited from hitting more than one target with a single shot due to ammo expenditure check being made before large blast allowed another hit from that shot (and usually due to rate of fire less than 2, they were already limited to just a single shot at given range).

Are we to expect higher casualty rates in combat? #55 looks like a quite huge thing to me.

[Flaviusx]

Can't say what's going on with the supply but that combat is a completely ordinary one, Pelton. You were attacked with a crushing superiority. Looks like you got hit by 10+ divisions, and your two were in the clear. This counterattack was no joke, the enemy threw practically an entire army at you, with huge numerical superiority across the board in all categories. If it's any consolation, I bet the Soviet armor that got thrown into this attack is beat up and will never be as strong again after it. Those things in 1941 are a one shot deal.

The only slightly surprising thing here is that your air support didn't take more of an edge off the attack.

[Toidi]

The combat is a major ouch... The result was, however, 100% sure. Actually, not sure whether your opp made a wise decision to add so many divisions to the attack, it was a clear overkill - my estimate is that roughly 2/3 of it would be enough for an assured win...

As for odds, they are just odds. Remember, you see the final one only, whereas during the combat it might have been much more modest. You lost a lot of tanks though - but again, enemy massed at least 3 tanks divisions there so I can understand that... Also, 200 vs 320 (when tank divisions) will usually results in something like 1.3:1 (making it 2.3:1 due to rules). I can see why twice the cv will make 4.6:1 odds... On the other hand, the number of men is not that overwhelming (though tanks are) - there must have been some good morale divisions involved (e.g. 200th rifle division is a very strong one). As such, I can see the reason for the overkill... Still, if you encircle the divisions which were counterattacking, it will be a major ouch for the Soviets...

As for the supplies, it seems to me that, unfortunately, there is a bug there clearly... or the supply rules need to be amended...

[morvael]

As you know old code was giving hundred of tons for free, because the support units weren't eating anything. Please show me supply details screen for both the HQ and the Panzer. We'll see what are the numbers there.

[morvael]

The odds look normal to me. Let's focus on the supply. Perhaps using HQBU is the problem, not normal supply.

[morvael]

Perhaps HQBU flag is not cleared and those units don't get any supplies at all next turn. It will be easy to fix. But I need to see supply details screen first.