Using French partisans to land in France

[alexvand]

So I have a French partisan on the coast in France. With what unit can I land on it without an invasion? Or can I?

Vichy France has already been collapsed.

I've tried American, CW, and a Free French territorial, but none of them could land.

Is it even possible?

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: alex_van_d

So I have a French partisan on the coast in France. With what unit can I land on it without an invasion? Or can I?

Vichy France has already been collapsed.

I've tried American, CW, and a Free French territorial, but none of them could land.

Is it even possible?

Only units of the same nationality as the partisan can land in that hex. Since it is a French partisan it must be a unit of French nationality. Unfortunately a French territorial is a minor country unit that has the same nationality as it is from and therefore it is not considered French for this purpose.

Edit: Yes, it is possible but it requires a French (nationality) unit.

[alexvand]

And given that there's a bug preventing us from lend-leasing to Free France we can't build the units necessary to use it.

Guess I have to wait for a bug fix for that.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: alex_van_d

So I have a French partisan on the coast in France. With what unit can I land on it without an invasion? Or can I?

Vichy France has already been collapsed.

I've tried American, CW, and a Free French territorial, but none of them could land.

Is it even possible?

Only units of the same nationality as the partisan can land in that hex. Since it is a French partisan it must be a unit of French nationality. Unfortunately a French territorial is a minor country unit that has the same nationality as it is from and therefore it is not considered French for this purpose.

Edit: Yes, it is possible but it requires a French (nationality) unit.

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf

11.13 Debarking land units
Face-up land units in a sea area (being naval transported ~ see 11.4.5 Naval transport) can debark into friendly controlled coastal hexes in that sea area. They can also debark into hexes occupied by a partisan unit they co-operate with.

Note: This is from the RAW and may differ from the RAC.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: alex_van_d

So I have a French partisan on the coast in France. With what unit can I land on it without an invasion? Or can I?

Vichy France has already been collapsed.

I've tried American, CW, and a Free French territorial, but none of them could land.

Is it even possible?

Only units of the same nationality as the partisan can land in that hex. Since it is a French partisan it must be a unit of French nationality. Unfortunately a French territorial is a minor country unit that has the same nationality as it is from and therefore it is not considered French for this purpose.

Edit: Yes, it is possible but it requires a French (nationality) unit.

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf

11.13 Debarking land units
Face-up land units in a sea area (being naval transported ~ see 11.4.5 Naval transport) can debark into friendly controlled coastal hexes in that sea area. They can also debark into hexes occupied by a partisan unit they co-operate with.

Note: This is from the RAW and may differ from the RAC.

As it often is with RAW you need to look at several places to get a clear picture of the rules.

The two following rules apply as well.

Cut from RAC: 18.1 Who can co-operate
....
Partisans co-operate with units from their own country only. Chinese partisans only co-operate with Chinese communist units.

Cut from RAC: 13.1 Partisans
....
units of the partisan’s nationality (only) can debark, or paradrop, into the hex without having to fight a notional unit;



Edit: I cut those rules from RAC but I am pretty sure that they are identical to RAW.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf

Controlling partisans
Partisans in China are always communist Chinese units. French partisans are controlled by the Free French unless it is completely conquered, after which they are controlled by the Soviets.

Note: This is from the RAW and may differ from the RAC.

Which means if Free France was not created. You could not debark on French partisans because there would be no French units created. Correct?

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf

Controlling partisans
Partisans in China are always communist Chinese units. French partisans are controlled by the Free French unless it is completely conquered, after which they are controlled by the Soviets.

Note: This is from the RAW and may differ from the RAC.

Which means if Free France was not created. You could not debark on French partisans because there would be no French units created. Correct?

In case of a completely conquered France, you are correct, since than there aren't any French land units on the map...

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf

Controlling partisans
Partisans in China are always communist Chinese units. French partisans are controlled by the Free French unless it is completely conquered, after which they are controlled by the Soviets.

Note: This is from the RAW and may differ from the RAC.

Which means if Free France was not created. You could not debark on French partisans because there would be no French units created. Correct?

In case of a completely conquered France, you are correct, since than there aren't any French land units on the map...

France partisans are controlled BY free France or Russia ..

but the are still France partisans

[michaelbaldur]

it is very simple ..send France a few BP ..build a division.

place a partisan on a coastal hex

debark the division. now the hexes changes to France control.

move the partisan.

now you have a France coastal hex here you can freely debark allied units

[Orm]

How about partisan that appear in France before Free France is created? I always thought that the partisans were controlled by France then but this is not what RAW says. RAW is suspiciously quiet about this.

What is your thoughts about this, Paul?

[Centuur]

This is how it has to be played:

If France isn't vichyfied: the partisans are controlled by France.
If France is incompletely conquered: the partisans are controlled by France.
If France is vichyfied and Free France exist: the partisans are controlled by Free France.
If France is vichyfied and Free France doesn't exist: the partisans are controlled by the USSR.
If Free France is incompletely conquered: the partisans are controlled by Free France.
If France is completely conquered: the partisans are controlled by the USSR.

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: Centuur
This is how it has to be played:

If France isn't vichyfied: the partisans are controlled by France.
If France is incompletely conquered: the partisans are controlled by France.
If France is vichyfied and Free France exist: the partisans are controlled by Free France.
If France is vichyfied and Free France doesn't exist: the partisans are controlled by the USSR.
* If Free France is incompletely conquered: the partisans are controlled by Free France.
If France is completely conquered: the partisans are controlled by the USSR.

* The RAW states that "Free France is considered an incompletely conquered major power" upon creation.

I belive this is what you want to say.

If France is vichyfied:
When Free France exists the French partisans are controlled by Free France.
When Free France doesn't exist the French partisans are controlled by the USSR.

If France isn't vichyfied:
When France is completely conquered the French partisans are controlled by the USSR.
Otherwise French partisans are controlled by France.


Which is not in any way supported by the RAW.

[Orm]

I belive this is what you want to say.

If France is vichyfied:
When Free France exists the French partisans are controlled by Free France.
When Free France doesn't exist the French partisans are controlled by the USSR.

If France isn't vichyfied:
When France is completely conquered the French partisans are controlled by the USSR.
Otherwise French partisans are controlled by France.

I would like to say that as well.


Or I would actually prefer the following:
If France exits then the French partisans are controlled by France.
If France does not exist and Free France exists then French partisans are controlled by Free France.
If neither France nor Free France exist then French partisans are controlled by the USSR.

Which is not in any way supported by the RAW.

Indeed. And I find this troubling. I would really like this clarified.

[Extraneous]

I agree but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

See my post

[paulderynck]

This is greatly simplified by realizing the sentence "Note: “France” means Occupied France after a Vichy government has been installed (see 17.1)." is a specific rule for when Vichy is installed - which is telling you that once Vichy exists, you cannot place a French partisan inside it. Whereas "Each of those countries named on the chart on a green background is eligible if it is conquered or any of its hexes are enemy controlled." is the general rule - which is telling you that France can get partisans anytime under the same conditions other countries in green on the chart may get them.

Furthermore, as per the FAQ Q13.7-18 and Q13.7-19, Free France is the successor to France. Thus both an incompletely conquered France and the Free France that is created by Vichyfication are both essentially "Free France". And per FAQ Q17.2-4, once France is liberated than "France" replaces Free France, if it ever existed.

Separate from all that, the partisan rules tell you who controls French partisans, dependent on whether France exists or Free France exists or neither exists.

[Extraneous]

Are you saying that...

If France is vichyfied:
When Free France exists the French partisans are controlled by Free France.
When Free France doesn't exist the French partisans are not generated.
(Because: Q17.2-4 "Free France has to be founded as per the Vichification rules.")

If France isn't vichyfied:
When France is completely conquered the French partisans are controlled by the USSR.
Otherwise French partisans are controlled by France.

[Centuur]

No. He isn't saying that.

He says that: as long as Vichy isn't created, partisans in France are controlled by the French, since than the general rule for partisan control is valid.

If Free France isn't created (when Vichy is declared), France is completely conquered and therefore the USSR controls French partisans (even if Vichy exists...).

[Extraneous]

As I said I am posting weather I am right or wrong.

yes partisans turn up in occupied France irrespective of whether Vichy France is established.

13.1.1 2nd para

Each of those countries named on the chart on a green background is eligible if it is conquered or any of its hexes are enemy controlled.

regards
Harry Rowland
ADG

This is edited. I took off the "Gidday" [:D]

[Majorball68]

Are they going to fix the issue of lending Free France BP so they can at least build some units?

[michaelbaldur]

ORIGINAL: Majorball68

Are they going to fix the issue of lending Free France BP so they can at least build some units?

off cause ... it is on the to-do list. but can´t say when we get to it.

it is not really a high priority