Wild Sheep Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Your Irving losses are why I don't build/field that plane much any more. I just don't see much difference in effect between the Irving and the Tojo on NF CAP, so I use the Tojo. Do you see much difference? I mean, I lose so many in A2A that it hardly matters and I'd rather lose a 1E than a 2E and one that I'm already in production on.

The only 2 that work for me are the Denko and the Randy 'c'. I can't really afford to put any IJN AG's to NF duty, so if I R&D an NF, the Randy is the only one I will do. Until then, I just use Tojo's.

What is your experience so far?

As seen by the total losses to the J1S1-Sa so far it is not too bad. Much better than the previous version without radar. It does get to the bombers, which is surprising considering the amount of speed differential. Shooting them down outright is not as frequent but damaging them happens virtually every contact.

I don't yet have the Randy 'c' but as you say I'm hoping this will be the best of the NF. The Denko looks great but is too far off in spite of my size 30 R n D factory. Probably won't arrive until about 9/45. Another wasted investment, but the hope was to try everything.

For me, against an opponent who sends out night bombing missions with the B-29s almost exclusively, and who always masses them, I can't have enough NF. I would have twice as many groups if I could! I would se most available airframes for NF that have decent armament. I'm still mad I can' t use the Nick Id NF.

As for using a day fighter on night Cap it's only a desperation measure early. They seem to be effective in slowing the strikes but not in shooting anything down, or damaging them, but lose often 30-50% of planes in the air during the strikes. Not sustainable for me. At least with Irvings (and other mediocre NF) I get almost a 1:1 loss ratio against the B-29s. Considering the state of remaining LI there is nothing I need more than more NF, and I might even try in desperation a few day fighter groups now to see what they do. Especially in manchuria where he's now using the B-29B.

[erstad]

I'd also be interested to know something of the Aztez games that went into 46, and I believe all of the way to the end, but the info on the Japanese side isn't there as his opponents didn't do AARs.

For aztez/erstad, around 2M supply as of 5/27/46. Which was "somewhat adequate". 2M sounds like a ton but by the time you add up minimum supply requirements for bases there's not a lot of excess. I had some local shortages because there wasn't enough to keep margin at all the bases and I spent a certain amount of time managing/fretting about supply, but I wasn't scraping the bottom of the rice barrel.

I tend to be modest in things like my industry expansion because I typically am in it for the long haul (particularly with aztez; we know our games are going to '46). But as you note, one of the challenges is guessing how things done in 42/43/44 are going to affect 45/46 given the paucity of documented games that get that far.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

As for using a day fighter on night Cap it's only a desperation measure early. They seem to be effective in slowing the strikes but not in shooting anything down, or damaging them, but lose often 30-50% of planes in the air during the strikes. Not sustainable for me. At least with Irvings (and other mediocre NF) I get almost a 1:1 loss ratio against the B-29s. Considering the state of remaining LI there is nothing I need more than more NF, and I might even try in desperation a few day fighter groups now to see what they do. Especially in manchuria where he's now using the B-29B.

Interesting ... I haven't seen that bad of losses with my Tojo's on NF CAP duty ... so maybe I am lucky or more likely it is because my opponent (Andy AI) uses a LOT of night bombing, but he doesn't mass them. He does however send them everywhere and at 7K - 9K elevation where the hit counts are high along with the damage unless I can disrupt the bomb runs ... so I have to have, even in mid-42 +20 fighter groups dedicated to NF duty .... a big drain for me and hurts my pilot training program.

[FeurerKrieg]

Why can't you use the Nick d?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Why can't you use the Nick d?

I'm out of Ha-31 engines. I simply didn't realize many of the FB groups would upgrade to NF, so I didn't allocate any engine building for this model.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: erstad

I'd also be interested to know something of the Aztez games that went into 46, and I believe all of the way to the end, but the info on the Japanese side isn't there as his opponents didn't do AARs.

For aztez/erstad, around 2M supply as of 5/27/46. Which was "somewhat adequate". 2M sounds like a ton but by the time you add up minimum supply requirements for bases there's not a lot of excess. I had some local shortages because there wasn't enough to keep margin at all the bases and I spent a certain amount of time managing/fretting about supply, but I wasn't scraping the bottom of the rice barrel.

I tend to be modest in things like my industry expansion because I typically am in it for the long haul (particularly with aztez; we know our games are going to '46). But as you note, one of the challenges is guessing how things done in 42/43/44 are going to affect 45/46 given the paucity of documented games that get that far.

Hey erstad. Thanks for the info.

Did aztez have a strat bombing campaign against the DEI and/or the Home Islands? When did he cut off the oil flow fro the DEI?

Due to strat bombing I'm about where you were with supply in 46 more than a year earlier.

[FeurerKrieg]

I see - I made my own excel sheet to track all the upgrades and future engine needs. That way I know which engines I can shut off producion (to save HI) and which I can leave on to build a surplus for later on. Tracker has the same info, but I find building the sheet myself helps me understand it all much better. Plus it is easier to modify my sheet based on the aircraft production changes I make.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

I see - I made my own excel sheet to track all the upgrades and future engine needs. That way I know which engines I can shut off producion (to save HI) and which I can leave on to build a surplus for later on. Tracker has the same info, but I find building the sheet myself helps me understand it all much better. Plus it is easier to modify my sheet based on the aircraft production changes I make.

I actually was pretty well planned on the engines, which is why they are all used up! [:)]

I didn't know I'd want so many of ALL kinds of NF and NF groups at that point, or that the upgrades for the FB groups going to NF would need the Nick Id before the Randy Ic. It's just the first time through it all.

[FeurerKrieg]

And I thank you - because it will make me look more carefully at the timing of the Nick d and the Randy Ic.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

And I thank you - because it will make me look more carefully at the timing of the Nick d and the Randy Ic.

It's not that I need the Nick Id to get to the Randy Ic, but I simply can't use those FB groups as NF until the Randy Ic which is still a month or two away.

[obvert]

Not sure if Jocke wrote anything, but the game is on hold after he hurt his back pretty badly. He has been on pain killers and not really able to sit much, so it's pretty impossible to play the game.

Back stuff is hard. Once you have trouble there you never know when it'll hit. My dad used to crawl from the bed to the bathroom even in the prime of his physically strong years when he had tweaked his back.

Here's hoping Jocke has good painkillers and a speedy recovery.

[witpqs]

I don't recall him writing anything. And he just passed the exam for his license, with lots physical in that line of work. Ouch! I've made that crawl and it isn't fun. [:(]

[obvert]

[font="Times New Roman"]11 - 14 April 1945[/font]
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Jocke's back is apparently better, and we've been sending turns for a few days again. Not much big to report, but I'll fall behind irrevocably if I don't say something!
[:)]
[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]SUBS: [/font] The Es I've sent out just a few hexes from the Kyushu ports do get to some Allied subs and one is sunk by the Tigrante, but the resulting attack most likely takes the sub out as well. I haven't used any of the remaining IJN subs for some time. About ten are still floating, and they will be used for home islands defense.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]DEI:[/font] The Allies egt to Palembang and attack, getting a 1:1 against the naval guard there, attacking with a full division and some tanks. The forts began at level 9, so will take a while to pare down. The Allies still march slowly down the Malayan peninsula as well.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]STRAT BOMBING:[/font] The B-29Bs take out HI at Port Arthur, one of the few places left with fuel. I'll move some NF around the area in case these try other spots.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]CHINA: [/font] The Allies finally get a 1:1 near Paoshan after a full ground bombing campaign using what appears to be all of the operational 4E groups for several weeks. The IJA troops will crumble soon, but at least are hitting back a little. Tsuyung with level 6 forts will be the next holdout, but only a brigade is there now and supply is scarce. Everything up here will remain until pushed out, even without supply. I only care about stalling.

In the rest of China the Allied forward force goes for Kukong. I have 1600AV there, so that will hold for now. The main force is still moving toward Wuchow on yellow roads. Nice and slow. I've begun evacuating the coastal regions. Canton will try to hold out, as will Kukong, until pushed back. Not much else to stop the push.

The Allies sweep Liuchow and get about 3:1 against defenders there, but few pilots are lost. I'll move them back now though, so it'll be open to obliteration if the interest in the mountain troops ever abates.

[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"]HOME ISLANDS: [/font] Supply is creeping very slowly upward, but not fast enough. It makes no sense to have TT pilots and torpedo equipped plans right now as none of my Western bases can support them.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 11, 45
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Ground combat at 77,57 (near Wuchow)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 2118 troops, 0 guns, 292 vehicles, Assault Value = 166

Defending force 10516 troops, 86 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 259

Allied adjusted assault: 75

Japanese adjusted defense: 1111

Allied assault odds: 1 to 14

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
532 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled

Allied ground losses:
79 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
18th Cavalry Regiment
Guides Cavalry Regiment
3rd Cavalry Regiment

Defending units:
17th Ind.Mixed Brigade
69th Division

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 12, 45
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Night Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 9

No Allied losses

Heavy Industry hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 36 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Night Air attack on Kagoshima , at 102,60

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 6

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

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Ground combat at 67,44 (near Paoshan)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 45927 troops, 873 guns, 539 vehicles, Assault Value = 1306

Defending force 27073 troops, 345 guns, 147 vehicles, Assault Value = 528

Allied adjusted assault: 869

Japanese adjusted defense: 754

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1317 casualties reported
Squads: 17 destroyed, 64 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 9 disabled
Guns lost 20 (1 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
398 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 60 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 12 (1 destroyed, 11 disabled)

Assaulting units:
7th Indian Division
23rd Indian Division
25th Indian Division
8th New Chinese Corps
117th RAF Base Force
104th RAF Base Force
1st Burma Auxiliary AA Regiment
56th Heavy Regiment
23rd AA Bde
88th Medium Regiment
2nd West African AA Regiment
4th West African AA Regiment
3rd West African AA Regiment
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment

Defending units:
91st Infantry Brigade
104th Division
40th Division
37th Division
1st Army

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Ground combat at 77,57 (near Wuchow)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 2079 troops, 0 guns, 292 vehicles, Assault Value = 158

Defending force 10151 troops, 86 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 224

Allied adjusted assault: 82

Japanese adjusted defense: 583

Allied assault odds: 1 to 7

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker: supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
279 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 42 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
189 casualties reported
Squads: 21 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 69 (3 destroyed, 66 disabled)

Assaulting units:
18th Cavalry Regiment
Guides Cavalry Regiment
3rd Cavalry Regiment

Defending units:
17th Ind.Mixed Brigade
69th Division

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 13, 45
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Sub attack near Koshiki-jima Retto at 99,60

Japanese Ships
E No.30, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
E No.48

Allied Ships
SS Tigrante, hits 16, heavy damage

SS Tigrante launches 2 torpedoes at E No.30
E No.48 fails to find sub, continues to search...
E No.48 attacking submerged sub ....

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Morning Air attack on Liuchow , at 74,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 15
N1K2-J George x 26
Ki-84r Frank x 79

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 76
Thunderbolt II x 10
F4U-1D Corsair x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 3 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt I: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
32 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet

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Morning Air attack on Liuchow , at 74,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 58 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 7
N1K2-J George x 21
Ki-84r Frank x 61

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 42
Thunderbolt II x 10
F4U-1A Corsair x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 3 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt I: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
41 x F4U-1A Corsair sweeping at 32000 feet

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Morning Air attack on Liuchow , at 74,55

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 1
N1K2-J George x 10
Ki-84r Frank x 38

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 44
P-51D Mustang x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt I: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x P-51D Mustang sweeping at 32000 feet
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 14, 45
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Ground combat at 67,44 (near Paoshan)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 45712 troops, 872 guns, 539 vehicles, Assault Value = 1287

Defending force 24993 troops, 344 guns, 144 vehicles, Assault Value = 397

Allied adjusted assault: 551

Japanese adjusted defense: 547

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
642 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 89 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 7 (2 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
768 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 84 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 24 disabled
Guns lost 16 (1 destroyed, 15 disabled)

Assaulting units:
23rd Indian Division
7th Indian Division
25th Indian Division
8th New Chinese Corps
117th RAF Base Force
3rd West African AA Regiment
23rd AA Bde
1st Burma Auxiliary AA Regiment
56th Heavy Regiment
2nd West African AA Regiment
4th West African AA Regiment
88th Medium Regiment
104th RAF Base Force
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment

Defending units:
40th Division
104th Division
91st Infantry Brigade
37th Division
1st Army

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/font]

Reinforcements:

[font="Trebuchet MS"]74th Sentai arrives at Taihoku
91st Shinbu-tai arrives at Osaka/Kyoto
92nd Shinbu-tai arrives at Osaka/Kyoto
7th JAAF Base Force arrives at Tokyo
56th JNAF AF Unit arrives at Tokyo
E No.158 arrives at Tokyo
94th Shinbu-tai arrives at Keijo
95th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
98th Shinbu-tai arrives at Keijo
Maizuru 4th SNLF arrives at Tokyo
2nd Base Force arrives at Tokyo
173rd JAAF AF Bn arrives at Tokyo
94th Shinbu-tai arrives at Fusan
98th Shinbu-tai arrives at Fusan
S-402 Hikotai arrives at Taihoku
53rd Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
56th Shinbu-tai arrives at Utsonomiya
144th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tsu
11th Machine Canno AA Battalion arrives at Osaka/Kyoto
12th Machine Canno AA Battalion arrives at Nagoya
106th Machine Canno AA Battalion arrives at Nagoya
40th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion arrives at Oita
32nd RF Gun Battalion arrives at Keijo
39th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion arrives at Kochi
44th Ind. Hvy.Art. Battalion arrives at Kagoshima
38th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion arrives at Nagoya
41st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion arrives at Nagoya
42nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion arrives at Chiba
43rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion arrives at Oita
45th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion arrives at Osaka/Kyoto
30th RF Gun Battalion arrives at Tsitsihar
31st RF Gun Battalion arrives at Mishan
29th RF Gun Battalion arrives at Liaoyuan
103rd Machine Canno AA Battalion arrives at Tokyo
104th Machine Canno AA Battalion arrives at Tokyo
105th Machine Canno AA Battalion arrives at Tokyo
33rd RF Gun Battalion arrives at Sapporo
23rd Machine Canno AA Battalion arrives at Sapporo
25th JAAF AF Bn arrives at Tokyo
31st Shinbu-tai arrives at Changchun
100th Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
101st Shinbu-tai arrives at Tokyo
60th JNAF AF Unit arrives at Tokyo[/font]

Losses:

[font="Trebuchet MS"]Loss of E No.30 on Apr 13, 1945 is admitted[/font]

Ships Sunk:

[font="Trebuchet MS"]YMS-85 is reported to have been sunk near Manado on Sep 09, 1944[/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[font="Trebuchet MS"]Ours ([:(]) against theirs ([X(]). A Type 97 ShinhoTo Chi-Ha and a Sherman. Not hard to understand why Allied armor does pretty well in the late game especially. [/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[font="Trebuchet MS"]Ours ([:(]) against theirs ([X(]). A Type 97 ShinhoTo Chi-Ha and a Sherman. Not hard to understand why Allied armor does pretty well in the late game especially. [/font]
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, wait until the SOV armor gets a hold of you. VERY hard to stop. Be sure your primary and secondary MLR's are set up ...

[SqzMyLemon]

Just a thought. Do you think it would be feasible to use xAK's to store supply out of range of attack and periodically unload some when you need it? I'm wondering if that might be a good use for all those hulks in the late game, sort of a floating supply reserve that won't suffer spoilage or loss to ground bombing. Of course you'd have to avoid getting them sunk eventually.

Hey Pax, how much of a stockpile in the armament/vehicle pools do you think you need for the late game. I know Mike Solli shoots for 100k and then simply maintains it, is that enough for the late war. What are yours at now Erik?

[PaxMondo]

Joseph,

Once the SOV enter, I have not been able to keep up with ARM or VEH ... I was typically suffering +100 device losses every day. That would be at least 1200 ARM pts/day and a lot of days it was a lot higher. Think Burma when you are trying to hold, except instead of 6 - 9 ID's involved, you have like 25 ID's involved. Now throw in the reinforcements you get.

If you think you will get past the SOV activation, I don't think you can ever have too many ARM pts. Once the SOV activate, you will burn through 100K ARM in a month or less if you are lucky. Meaning, you need to be really good at getting replacements into your LCU's fast. You need every trick you can come up with. You also are going to need a lot of AC. Fighters and Helen's ... lots of them. This is just for the SOV side of the war. Let not forget the USA pounding along as well.

When I say I hate Burma and the Marshalls, etc, its all about force conservation. I know i can't get through '45 if I have left very many units stranded somewhere. It is so hard to figure out when to pull back to keep units from getting isolated. In particular, you can't afford to lose a single support unit. IJ doesn't have enough as it is and to have some stranded out in the DEI cut-off ... engr, arty, AT they are all crucial to hold the lines. If I have them all, I have almost as many as the allies combined. Granted, no where near the fire power, but at least I can match the numbers. Then it is about air superiority and defending gives great advantages.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Erik, this image would be good inspiration for a model diorama. I have both kits, hmmm...

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

If you think you will get past the SOV activation, I don't think you can ever have too many ARM pts.

How many PBEM grand campaign games would reach Soviet activation before Japan capitulates though, and at that stage would it matter trying to stem the Russian hordes? Yet another dilemma for Japan. [:(]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

If you think you will get past the SOV activation, I don't think you can ever have too many ARM pts.

How many PBEM grand campaign games would reach Soviet activation before Japan capitulates though, and at that stage would it matter trying to stem the Russian hordes? Yet another dilemma for Japan. [:(]

Yes.

Keep the ARM points flowing, but even more importantly keep th vehicle points coming. You will never have enough. Make more!!!

In this game I will be glad to make to the historical VJ Day with some fighting ability. That will be a history for me if it happens. Three months to go!

The Russians are my last thought now, and although I have 15,000 AV in Manchuria, it won't matter much if there is no supply. The MLR has long been planned o be quite far in toward Korea. It will be geared toward stalling, but without stacking limits, all he has to do is put 4000 T-34s in one hex with about 3000 big Russian arty pieces and 20 divisions, and there is nothing that would hold.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: obvert

Erik, this image would be good inspiration for a model diorama. I have both kits, hmmm...

Awesome. That would be a nice one.

I was just amazed by the size and strength difference just visually here.