ORIGINAL: Numdydar
Unless the japanese player really messes up, they can easily get an AV in '43 just with China alone, against an AI or human. It is just a question of focus. China is not 'sexy' and is more like WWI than WWII for both sides. Plus it take FOREVER to get the Japanese into any type of shape to do major operations in China, months and months.
The beauty of China from a Japanese point of view is a) the Allies are very limited on any effective response and b) very short supply lines. It is expesive in PP costs to take units out of Manchuria, one of the few HRs I agree with, plus it will restrict gains elsewhere, like Oz and India.
As stated before, the VP gains from troop losses is pretty amazing. If you win a major battle against the Chinese they can lose 15K+ of troops. Try that against the US and see if you can do that [:)]
Even if you want to totally ignore China, at a minimum, you need to clear a path of Roads/RRs between Singaphore and Shanghi. Oil/supplies WILL flow (slowly for sure) between these two point if a path exists. I would also recomend capturing Sian also because of the Oil there too.
But if you want to completely overrun China, plan for a long and grueling battle that could take you 12-18 months to accomplish. But if you want to 'win' as Japan, it is certainly the easiest way to do it, imho [:)]
I disagree that taking China gives Japan an "easy" AV in 1943 or any time.
In my two 1942 PBEM games without HRs China has gone in radically different directions. In one I evacced China, gave up bases easily, and took the army to Burma where it is tying down a vast number of IJA troops. I still hold Chungking and Lanchow; that's it. The VP ratio is about 1: 1.5.
In the other game Cliff had read my AAR [:)] He was masterful at closing off the railroads, getting key hexside control, and generally bashing me in China. I had multiple 5-figure battle losses. At this point in early April I hold only Chungking, Chengtu, Sining, and the three N-S bases in the west leading up to Paoshan. That's it. A few straggler units in the bush that will die soon, and a huge stack at Chungking.
He also used the amphib bonus to the hilt, taking not only every large island he needs but dozens of dot hexes too. He has all the phase one objectives except PBang. He has all of northern Oz. He has half of the Aleutians. He has most of the South Pacific except Suva, which is under siege. All of the Marshalls and Gilberts except Canton. And the VP ratio is about 1: 2.4. Back of the envelope, he takes the rest of China and Pbang he goes over 1:3. The rest is hard. He can do it, but it's hard. And he has to do it without the bonus and in the face of steadily strengthening Allied power. I think he thinks he can. Even if he doesn't, I'm operating as if he is going for it. Who wouldn't?
China is no better or worse a Japanese objective than other options. Allied players sometimes forget a few things IMO:
1) The VP ratio rule. Killing Chinese devices is much less productive than killing US or Brit or Aussie devices. Losing 10,000 Chinese is a pretty minor VP hit.
2) The Chungking resurrection rule. 1/3 back for free. No VPs, no access tot he pools. Free. Which lowers the effective VP coup from killing them the first time a lot more.
3) Large Chinese replacement pools.
4) Garrison reqs. Not that arduous in China, but not nothing if you take the whole thing.
5) Time. LCUs in China aren't somewhere else.
6) A bit later, some very nice strat bombing targets in western China are open to attack from Burma. Supplies dragged across China to the west lose a lot to waste. If the LI can be killed in the west it puts more pressure on industrial China in the east.
Losing all of China is no fun, true. And AV can be achieved IF the allied player gives away his navy too. I've seen that happen in AARs. I just don't understand players who offer up 200-300 merchants in the first 90 days. Get the ships out of the DEI and away. Far away. Similarly, just because Japan is attacking by air doesn't mean you have to fight there. Let him sweep open air.
Gotta run. But losing China, while no fun and a pressure point for sure, needn't be fatal.
