Command Decisions: Yeomen vs. Samurai RA 6.4

[Mike McCreery]

If you ask for advice you need to be able to accept it.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: moore4807

Bullwinkle,

Your wish is my command...[;)]





AND yes, this is a current snapshot - so I can't have the naval attack as you pointed out from my game with LarryF [:-] [:D]

But here you have ordered a Sweep . . .

If you click "Naval Attack" for a naval attack the Select Target button goes away. But fighters CAN attack ships in a Naval attack. They use whatever their normal bomb load is, if any. You just can't order a specific target.

Edit: Also, in this case, you didn't have any percentage left over for either Naval or LRCAP. You're at 50 + 30 + 20 already in the allocations.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: moore4807

My vent is over and thanks for reading it... Umm We still DO need advice... any chance????, please?[:D][:D][:D]

Well . . .

An ARR is a funny animal as I found out. If you do one you will get advice, good, bad, and indifferent. A lot of it will be true so far as the giver knows, but he doesn't know everything or even much. Just what you post.

If you want this to be a war diary and for no one to post, say so and the community will respect that. Readership will probably decline, but that's the trade-off. If you want advice you have to let it be posted. You don't have to take it or even read it. But I've found, even when it's not spot on for my game, it often makes me look at something near it I hadn't thought about. We can get so into the weeds on loading tankers and worrying about mine inventories we forget the forest.

To my way of thinking you guys have set up just about the hardest game possible. You're playing x2 against one unified opponent who doesn't have to compromise with himself. You have one very inexperienced player running the side of the map where most of the action is going to be in 1942 when you can lose the game if you're not careful. You're playing a JFB mega-mod which makes the IJN much more powerful than even Scen 2. You're playing the guy who wrote the mod and who knows every nook and cranny of it. He's also played it several times in PBEM.

And to top it off you guys have imposed a bunch of HRs, unilaterally so far as I can tell (my former comment about the PPs to shift command hats being "abusive" was based on my thinking J3 had asked for it.)

About the only way you could make it harder would be to send John a screenshot of your map every turn.

Anyway, some thoughts.

[moore4807]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

If you ask for advice you need to be able to accept it.

Wargmr - Yes but what value is there for a player who has not played as the Allies before and is engaged with one of the better players on this forum???

What we were getting before was tactical advice = avoid this - do that - J3 usually does this - which is certainly constructive criticism, while what I read on the past page is not what I consider constructive - "your losing too many ships, your giving him an autovictory" where's the advice there??? That's what I was objecting to.

My blunder with the Enterprise was going after two large invasion fleets J3 has sailing southeast of Johnston Is. I didn't want to tangle with his carriers if at all possible, but that obviously didn't work out. I will protect my remaining CV's @ Pearl and use them much more judiciously. (remember Big E did a raid on the Aleutians that surprised J3?)

Larry needs to understand the big picture and there were several people here giving him advice, and he was making progress... He isn't perfect yet and this may be the training he needs to get there, but the spitwads from the back of the classroom aren't going to help here!

It's definitely an opinion difference here and while I do respect your right to voice that as advice, it's also my right to disagree.

[moore4807]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Well . . .

An ARR is a funny animal as I found out. If you do one you will get advice, good, bad, and indifferent. A lot of it will be true so far as the giver knows, but he doesn't know everything or even much. Just what you post.

If you want this to be a war diary and for no one to post, say so and the community will respect that. Readership will probably decline, but that's the trade-off. If you want advice you have to let it be posted. You don't have to take it or even read it. But I've found, even when it's not spot on for my game, it often makes me look at something near it I hadn't thought about. We can get so into the weeds on loading tankers and worrying about mine inventories we forget the forest.

To my way of thinking you guys have set up just about the hardest game possible. You're playing x2 against one unified opponent who doesn't have to compromise with himself. You have one very inexperienced player running the side of the map where most of the action is going to be in 1942 when you can lose the game if you're not careful. You're playing a JFB mega-mod which makes the IJN much more powerful than even Scen 2. You're playing the guy who wrote the mod and who knows every nook and cranny of it. He's also played it several times in PBEM.

And to top it off you guys have imposed a bunch of HRs, unilaterally so far as I can tell (my former comment about the PPs to shift command hats being "abusive" was based on my thinking J3 had asked for it.)

About the only way you could make I harder would be to send John a screenshot of your map every turn.

Anyway, some thoughts.

I do want advice and everyone to input to this AAR, there have been people reading it that say they have learned something, which is great!

I understand what your saying and completely agree with your sentiments, I guess I got my Irish up because we have repeatedly posted that were "newbies" of varying levels, and then all of a sudden 4-5 posts read like we're supposed to be playing @ CanoeRebel levels! (at least how I read it) It's just not gonna happen this week! [:D]

We did away with the HR about freely swapping forces w/o PP's... I've sent Larry 3 P-39 groups and a couple of P-40 groups to Cape Town to help stem the tide there...

Good thoughts and thanks for the input, maybe it was just me... I just hope everybody keeps reading and "advising" [:'(]
It's very boring without input on the game...

[moore4807]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

But here you have ordered a Sweep . . .

If you click "Naval Attack" for a naval attack the Select Target button goes away. But fighters CAN attack ships in a Naval attack. They use whatever their normal bomb load is, if any. You just can't order a specific target.

Edit: Also, in this case, you didn't have any percentage left over for either Naval or LRCAP. You're at 50 + 30 + 20 already in the allocations.

You sharp eyed devil! I was cheating and just grabbed a fighter group because I saw the single sub TF off PH...

I always used the LRCAP because it showed what TF# you were chasing and wrote it down in my trusty notebook... I found the A.I. and players rarely change TF #'s unless they are getting disbanded/repaired, so if I see that TF again I have a pretty good idea of who/what it is.

Also is there any difference you know of in the bombload of a LRCAP and a Nav bombing? I thought they were the same, primarily due to distance (fuel vs. bombs) & staying within normal range was the best option.

[JocMeister]

The point I was trying to make is that you don´t have to do anything besides staying out of J3 "banzai charges" for now. Don´t do anything fancy. Just set up a chain of search from PH all the way down to OZ. Move ships 10-15 hexes BEHIND the search. Let J3 burn insane amounts of fuel for nothing for a couple of months. You don´t need to do more then that. He will get impatient and do something rash.

Tactics is all fine and dandy but I think you have to sort out the bigger picture or you are in real danger of J3 getting a AV. You ARE throwing away ships for nothing. Every ship you lose for no ship sunk in return is a wasted ship and one step closer to AV. Accidents are unavoidable but a bunch a people have now told you that you need to watch your losses. You can either listen to that or don´t. If I were you I would listen. Aztez has finished more GC then anyone I know of. Its not "CR levels". Just stop getting ships sunk for nothing and play more carefully.

If you don´t want advice and have this as a diary just say so. But if you want advice you are going to hear stuff from time to time that you don´t like. Or agree on.

[moore4807]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

The point I was trying to make is that you don´t have to do anything besides staying out of J3 "banzai charges" for now. Don´t do anything fancy. Just set up a chain of search from PH all the way down to OZ. Move ships 10-15 hexes BEHIND the search. Let J3 burn insane amounts of fuel for nothing for a couple of months. You don´t need to do more then that. He will get impatient and do something rash.

Joc,
This is fine and good advice

Tactics is all fine and dandy but I think you have to sort out the bigger picture or you are in real danger of J3 getting a AV. You ARE throwing away ships for nothing. Every ship you lose for no ship sunk in return is a wasted ship and one step closer to AV. Accidents are unavoidable but a bunch a people have now told you that you need to watch your losses. You can either listen to that or don´t. If I were you I would listen. Aztez has finished more GC then anyone I know of. Its not "CR levels". Just stop getting ships sunk for nothing and play more carefully.

Here is the point I'm trying to make and you are reiterating what I'm complaining about...

Let me try a different scenario... If you were standing in front of a 5th grader and a college student and told each one to read "War and Peace", would your expectation levels the same for the two people? Of course not!
Would you criticize the 5th grader the same as the college student for the level of understanding? NO!!!
Would you spend MUCH more time with the 5th grader trying to make sure he understood words/concepts he likely had not seen before? YES!

Now for my grand exaggeration...
Larry is a first time Allied player who agreed to bite off more than he could chew because he is a decently good player who exclusively played the Japanese side to date? Sure.
Has he shown he needs more seasoning? Sure.
Has he offered to quit and let me take over? Twice by my count.

BUT whats the purpose in quitting now? He is learning the Allied side (a bit more publically than most I admit) and going against one of the better players is my fault because I was already playing Larry when John3rd offered the game - some quick negotiations and we were off playing, did I know the extent of Larry's Allied tactical ignorance? No, but I'll stick with him all the same, thank you

You folks are a gold mine of information, you are MOST DEFINITELY a jaded group and it shows on the AAR's (not that I'm any better) There is no step levels here, its strictly voluntary consumption and the big dogs do like to eat!

If you don´t want advice and have this as a diary just say so. But if you want advice you are going to hear stuff from time to time that you don´t like. Or agree on.

I agree and posts like this happen almost all the time even among the giants of this game (CR vs J3, soaking AKL's) as an example off the top of my head.
Yet I dutifully read CR as I thought he was an aggressive player and J3 because he has a crusher style of play...

I'm not in that league yet, although I want to be badly - but the only way to get there is to put your balls in play and get after em!!!

So really no harm no foul - and you folks are right, suck it up, just understand why I feel the need to defend Larry for something he did not do knowingly himself.

[Encircled]

How are your search arcs getting on?

With the loss of the Line Islands, thats a lot of ocean that you can't cover that well, which means any ships sailing in it are going to be at risk

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: moore4807

Good thoughts and thanks for the input, maybe it was just me... I just hope everybody keeps reading and "advising" [:'(]
It's very boring without input on the game...

I took the posts you had a problem with to boil down to this: don't try to fight everywhere or even much of anywhere the first 120 days. If he wants Johnson I. is it worth anything to try to stop him? Everything you do before the amphib bonus expires has to pass the "so what?" test. Most often the best Allied move is to get out of the way. That's what folks are saying.

Remember, if he takes it he owns it. He has to supply it and defend it later. J3 has rarely ever gotten to that part of his games. He loves the bashing. Let him bash some. You will survive it so long as you don't throw your navy away. Later you get your licks in.

I well know the feeling an Allied player has in the first months. I'm in them now in my game with Cliff. Just slog on, one day at a time. It gets better.

[moore4807]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

How are your search arcs getting on?

With the loss of the Line Islands, thats a lot of ocean that you can't cover that well, which means any ships sailing in it are going to be at risk

What a great question...

What search arcs? - I just lost 3 PBY groups and some support ships... Ohh Say Can You See??? LOL! Everything is from Pearl Harbor right now...

I see S.F. is +950,000 in supplies already, so my first belief is to start deliveries either to Port Stanley then to CapeTown to Perth/Colombo (again Larry's call)

Conversely I can go for the southern French route to Tahiti, but that guarantees refueling somewhere and John's search planes will be eyes for his SCTF's down there until I can clear them out... but patience is urged, and needed, before wasting any more ships in combat... (see? I DO Listen [:D])

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: moore4807

Also is there any difference you know of in the bombload of a LRCAP and a Nav bombing? I thought they were the same, primarily due to distance (fuel vs. bombs) & staying within normal range was the best option.

A LRCAP is a Long Range Combat AIR Patrol. Air-to-air. No bombs. They're fighters hunting airplanes. A LRCAP mission will never attack ships, even to strafe. If you want that you have to order a Naval Attack mission and hope they fly.

[aztez]

This will be the final "advice" for now and was just actually trying to be helpful.

Your opponent is aggressive. He has been since day one I have been involved within this fine forum.

Now having said that meant that he will feast with the TF's you are giving him. He does not need to burn fuel and effort for his gains.

Make him burn fuel and sweat. Sail your convoys safer routes.

Cannot comment on the spefific details since none of the readers can in these forums.

Simply.. draw up an general plan what you want to achieve in 1942.. don't go "banzai" with the allied fleets unless you are sure where his carriers are at least.

This RA mod where the carrier fleet is even stronger than stock so that means extra careful steps initially.

Also deciede on some lines of defenses where you will throw even kitchen sinks at him if he dares to come close. That does not mean you are not going to be flexible but there has to be some plan.

Sorry you feel that "don't throw ships away" for nothing was not an "advice". Actually it was trying to be helpful.

At least listen to Bullwinkle.. what he said that you are up againts it is true.

Good fighting and the game will teach you things... what you can get here are opinions but still it is you who are playing the game. Don't remember that either.

Good luck..! [:)]

[Mike McCreery]

Wargmr - Yes but

Really?

[Encircled]

To be honest, I wouldn't even send convoys from the West Coast to Oz at the moment.

Once you have coverage of the region with Catalinas then it might be worth it, though I'm not sure where your bases are going to be for that.

It looks like the CT-Perth route is the only way to go, but I think its a given that once the DEI is secure (and its not far of that now if the Pacific is anything to go by), then that route will be compromised.

I'm not sure what the best way is to be honest!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: moore4807

I see S.F. is +950,000 in supplies already, so my first belief is to start deliveries either to Port Stanley then to CapeTown to Perth/Colombo (again Larry's call)

CT needs supplies, but not ever from SF. Send them in one jump from East Coast. That base is the Number 1 Allied supply generator in the whole game. Millions and millions and millions. If you don't want to hand-hold just set up CS convoys EC to CT and back empty.

SF faces the Pacific. Supplying that is its job. EC is your friend for CT. After May 1943 EC to Aden works well too. Also UK to Aden.

Port Stanley has uses if you're tricky, but you can also ignore it the whole war and do fine. Just send a load down there so the LCU doesn't die of starvation and forget it.

If you want to discuss tricks we can. But getting there is pretty slow, and then you have to come on map from South America. Double slow. But it can be a nice surprise for Japan if done at the right time.

[moore4807]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: moore4807

Also is there any difference you know of in the bombload of a LRCAP and a Nav bombing? I thought they were the same, primarily due to distance (fuel vs. bombs) & staying within normal range was the best option.

A LRCAP is a Long Range Combat AIR Patrol. Air-to-air. No bombs. They're fighters hunting airplanes. A LRCAP mission will never attack ships, even to strafe. If you want that you have to order a Naval Attack mission and hope they fly.

OK I hear you but now I'm thinking wtpqs is right, there WAS a bug in the older RA version (5.5?) because I set P-39's and P-40's to LRCAP at 100ft/1000'ft and they did bomb detected subs... again NOT with the current version (+ we have a HR against me doing it) but if you have a sandbox setup just put a jap sub (detected) and assign the above fighters to 80% LRCAP to the detected sub TF. They might not attack now like you say, but if it's still there and if it's in thier normal flight range... methinks you may be surprised...

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: moore4807

OK I hear you but now I'm thinking wtpqs is right, there WAS a bug in the older RA version (5.5?) because I set P-39's and P-40's to LRCAP at 100ft/1000'ft and they did bomb detected subs... again NOT with the current version (+ we have a HR against me doing it) but if you have a sandbox setup just put a jap sub (detected) and assign the above fighters to 80% LRCAP to the detected sub TF. They might not attack now like you say, but if it's still there and if it's in thier normal flight range... methinks you may be surprised...

I have never seen an LRCAP mission engage a ship of any kind. I have not sandboxed it. I don't do sandboxes much. But I will look at the load-out for an LRCAP mission at various altitudes. They don't carry bombs though unless I'm drunk right now. [:)]

FWIW, RA can't change mission performance or what the various mission do. That's in the EXE file no modder has access to. RA is an Editor product. Data only.

[JocMeister]

I have never said anyone should quit. Learn by the mistakes but stop getting ships sunk for no gain. We were all complete noobs at one point. But if it wasn´t for the advice I was given early on in my AAR I would still be banging my head somewhere in New Guinea most likely. You might not think getting a couple of ships sunk here and there matters. But it does. Every single VP counts in 42 and in your situation suffering a AV defeat is a very real danger.

I can tell you right now (from own experience) that "the only way to get there is to put your balls in play and get after em!!!" is exactly the wrong way to do it in your situation. You can´t afford a "learning by doing" because that will give J3 that AV he so badly want. You have set yourselves up for a extremely hard challenge and need to adjust accordingly. You need to sit down the both of you and make up a strategic plan on how to survive 42. Listening to advice given to you by players who have played for a very long time is a good start. If you continue like this its very unlikely you will see 1943.

Look at the VPs and the map. Look at high multiplier bases both allied and Japanese, where are they? Account for LCU losses. Start building defensive lines. Set up a SAFE LOC. Build up bases and stop bleeding VPs.

I´m going to stop nagging at you now. [:)] But I still urge the both of you to adjust your play if you want to see 43 and onward.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

To be honest, I wouldn't even send convoys from the West Coast to Oz at the moment.

Once you have coverage of the region with Catalinas then it might be worth it, though I'm not sure where your bases are going to be for that.

It looks like the CT-Perth route is the only way to go, but I think its a given that once the DEI is secure (and its not far of that now if the Pacific is anything to go by), then that route will be compromised.

I'm not sure what the best way is to be honest!

The objective in both cases is to get fuel and supplies to OZ. Once there they flow well from either left or right coast.

Going on-map exposes convoys to attack, accumulates damage, burns fuel on the non-productive return leg, and takes up precious long-range escorts needed for combat TFs.

Off-map has none of those negatives.

Can Japan close the CT to Oz route? Yes, eventually and a little bit. Huge investments in fuel and damage and assets for him to do that. When/if a raider TF is found the Allied player has a menu of short-term responses, including spinning and heading back to the wormhole to wait the IJN's fuel out. The Allies can also immediately waypoint like crazy as soon as a TF emerges from the wormhole. I can afford to go a LOT farther south on my CT-Perth fuel budget than Japan can operating from Java or Sumatra or Cocos or DG.

Like everything it's move-counter-move. Japan sinks some ships, but most get through. Meanwhile his navy is out past the cheap-seats in the alley by the bars.