No longer an asset..

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JudgeDredd
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by JudgeDredd »

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Wow if only Labour were back in power so military spending would be great again,lol.A bit of selective memory going on there.
They certainly weren't the Armed Forces best buddies. Look at the contracts they screwed up.

I pointed out 3 episodes I recall in my life where the armed forces were basically demobbed en-masse...and each time the Tories were in power. It's also a particular sore point with me that they were the government in power when some of my friends were receiving their P45 whilst on Active Service in a war zone.

For the record, and to clarify, I am as much a Labour lover as I am a Tory lover or a Liberal lover.

I vaguely remember the despair the 70's brought my family in Glasgow but I definitely remember the 80's and 90's as those were more my impressionable years.

Sorry that that is distasteful to some of you - but that's how it was for me.
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z1812
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by z1812 »

The UK will continue to be an asset to the United States for many years to come because of it's geographic location, and therefore it's strategic usefulness, not to mentioned their shared language.
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baloo7777
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by baloo7777 »

ORIGINAL: jday305
Just my opinion and nothing more but the US will continue to view the UK as a military partner in the future. We will have to as the US's military is also becoming a shell of its former might and will need the UK to help bolster its depleted strenght.

+1

Both my son-in-laws in USN...both agree that the RN is a well respected highly professional force, not to be lightly dismissed.
JRR
shaddock
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by shaddock »

I think everyone is missing out on one big reason for all the military spending past, present, and future.
Is it the opinion of most, that Russia (the old Soviet Union) could NEVER fall back to their former communist aggressive ways?
I, for one, could certainly envision a future, not far from now where such a thing might happen.

Tis better to have and never need than to need and not have!

The US and UK are tied very deeply in very many ways. It would take a lot to break that union.
It would be a sad day indeed were that ever come to pass.
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Twotribes
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by Twotribes »

The current US Administration does not care about any ties to the UK. They have snubbed the UK more then once. And we have 3 more years to go.
Favoritism is alive and well here.
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Jevhaddah
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by Jevhaddah »

What we need is a damn good Alien invasion, that'l sort the man/woman persons from the boy/girl persons...

Sorry had to may snakwbites...

Cheers

Jev
I am really quite mad yoo know!
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Boomer78
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by Boomer78 »

“Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations...entangling alliances with none”

― Thomas Jefferson

I suppose some people think that the Declaration of Independence was written with disappearing ink.

"Fly, god dammit it fly! God damn cheap Japanese flying packs!"
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Jim D Burns
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by Jim D Burns »

Is it the opinion of most, that Russia (the old Soviet Union) could NEVER fall back to their former communist aggressive ways?

With a leader like Putin it would be a mistake to think there isn’t much he wouldn’t do to regain dominance in Eastern Europe again. As long as he can maintain his power through Russia’s current system of government, he has shown he’s not going to try and grab control permanently (at least not yet). But if his power is threatened, I have no doubt he’d revert to communism in a heartbeat if it would allow him to maintain control. The man is evil.

As to the armed forces, it seems the world goes in cycles. Wars are fought and people value their ability to defend themselves and they remain strong for a while, but then time passes. Peaceniks and liberals rail on about the tragedy of defense spending instead of giving stuff to the poor and countries slowly disarm. Then along comes some evil bastard who notices how weak the world is and he goes for broke and millions die. It seems humanity is destined to never learn from the past.

The real tragedy of the world situation today over the past is countries around the globe have come to rely on the US almost totally for defense. Professional militaries are almost non-existent in the world today and the ability to fight in an emergency if needed is questionable. What was it we found out during the Libya uprisings, non-US NATO forces only had 6 days worth of ammunition stockpiled or some ridiculously tiny number of days? It basically revealed how defenseless they are if the US isn’t there to do the heavy lifting.

If the US military gets defunded the way the liberals want to defund it, the world will be ripe for the picking. If that happens the only thing that might buy enough time to rearm is nuclear deterrent. Get rid of that and you’re headed into slavery or worse guaranteed.

Jim
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Max 86
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by Max 86 »

"Peace through Strength"

"Prepare for war, Pray for Peace"

No problem Chief!
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Hertston
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by Hertston »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So Lady Thatcher was wrong for removing the deterrent that led to the Falklands, but we can give up our only weapon against future nutters that can wipe us out? Right....

Neither nuclear weapons nor anything else can be relied upon to deter 'nutters' as those nutters by definition are likely to act irrationally. Seen from some particular religious viewpoints, it might even be considered rational to provoke a nuclear strike by launching one. Therefore... the only way a nuclear deterrent can prevent a nuclear attack on the UK is a 100% successful first strike on an assessed threat, with the associated consequences.

Sorry mate, but regardless of which bunch might be in power, that scenario is not acceptable to me. Neither is wasting 100 billion plus on something far better spent on conventional defence, healthcare, tax cuts or whatever else your ideological heart might desire. The whole nuclear thing is a nonsense for the UK in the 21st century. It's nothing to do with the efficacy or otherwise of any 'deterrent', and everything to do with staying in the club that includes a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.

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warspite1
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Hertston
ORIGINAL: warspite1

So Lady Thatcher was wrong for removing the deterrent that led to the Falklands, but we can give up our only weapon against future nutters that can wipe us out? Right....

Neither nuclear weapons nor anything else can be relied upon to deter 'nutters' as those nutters by definition are likely to act irrationally. Seen from some particular religious viewpoints, it might even be considered rational to provoke a nuclear strike by launching one. Therefore... the only way a nuclear deterrent can prevent a nuclear attack on the UK is a 100% successful first strike on an assessed threat, with the associated consequences.

Sorry mate, but regardless of which bunch might be in power, that scenario is not acceptable to me. Neither is wasting 100 billion plus on something far better spent on conventional defence, healthcare, tax cuts or whatever else your ideological heart might desire. The whole nuclear thing is a nonsense for the UK in the 21st century. It's nothing to do with the efficacy or otherwise of any 'deterrent', and everything to do with staying in the club that includes a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.

warspite1

I did not mean nutters in that sense - after all Hitler was a nutter [:)]

But fair enough this is one of those subjects that polarises opinion. I will never believe other than the need to keep the deterrent but I respect your counter view.

Edit: Spelling its nutters not butters [8|]
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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nate25
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by nate25 »

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
Is it the opinion of most, that Russia (the old Soviet Union) could NEVER fall back to their former communist aggressive ways?

With a leader like Putin it would be a mistake to think there isn’t much he wouldn’t do to regain dominance in Eastern Europe again. As long as he can maintain his power through Russia’s current system of government, he has shown he’s not going to try and grab control permanently (at least not yet). But if his power is threatened, I have no doubt he’d revert to communism in a heartbeat if it would allow him to maintain control. The man is evil.

As to the armed forces, it seems the world goes in cycles. Wars are fought and people value their ability to defend themselves and they remain strong for a while, but then time passes. Peaceniks and liberals rail on about the tragedy of defense spending instead of giving stuff to the poor and countries slowly disarm. Then along comes some evil bastard who notices how weak the world is and he goes for broke and millions die. It seems humanity is destined to never learn from the past.

The real tragedy of the world situation today over the past is countries around the globe have come to rely on the US almost totally for defense. Professional militaries are almost non-existent in the world today and the ability to fight in an emergency if needed is questionable. What was it we found out during the Libya uprisings, non-US NATO forces only had 6 days worth of ammunition stockpiled or some ridiculously tiny number of days? It basically revealed how defenseless they are if the US isn’t there to do the heavy lifting.

If the US military gets defunded the way the liberals want to defund it, the world will be ripe for the picking. If that happens the only thing that might buy enough time to rearm is nuclear deterrent. Get rid of that and you’re headed into slavery or worse guaranteed.

Jim

IMHO, if you think the Russians have done anymore than change their flag and the badge on their caps, you are very niave.
I have a subtle and cunning plan.
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jday305
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by jday305 »

When the Chinese, Russians, Indians, Pakastan and North Korea have nukes, the UK and US need that deterrent. I'm sorry but I don't trust any of them. If the UK and US doesn't have nukes then we are at the mercy of any of these countries. All of these countries have visions of greater glory and would probably use or threaten the use of nukes to get it. How do we counter the threat of nukes without deterrent? Negotiate? Look how well its worked out for the current American administration.
RebelYell

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Hertston
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by Hertston »

The Russians may have designs of extended power, if not sovereignty, over the former Soviet states. The Chinese probably do in respect of much of the South China Sea. As far as I'm aware, India and Pakistani terratorial ambitions are restricted to bordering chunks of each other. And as already implied, Kim Jong-un is a complete headcase that can't be relied upon to be rationally 'deterred' anyway.

The latter apart, possibly, there isn't the slightest bit of evidence any of them have any intention to threaten or use nukes in search of 'greater glory' - whatever that means. Certainly no more evidence, in most of the world's eyes, than the US doing it. As far as the UK is concerned, I'm about as worried about the ambitions for 'greater glory' of that lot as I am about an invasion from Mars.

Talking of which ..... Alien base on the Moon?

I rest my case. Unless it should turn out to be Kim Jong-un's secret vacation retreat, anyway. [;)] Of course, if anyone should now argue we should keep nuclear weapons with the additional requirement for lunar capable launchers I would have to concede the point. [:D]



JWW
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by JWW »

ORIGINAL: USS Wyoming

When the US gets a new president, we will reignite our kinship with the UK militarily, strategically and diplomatically. The current president has low regard for the UK and as soon as he's gone-relations will improve.

This
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Boomer78
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by Boomer78 »

ORIGINAL: JW

ORIGINAL: USS Wyoming

When the US gets a new president, we will reignite our kinship with the UK militarily, strategically and diplomatically. The current president has low regard for the UK and as soon as he's gone-relations will improve.

This

Speak for yourself. The next time I see an American bow to the Queen I think I'll make sure to vomit red, white and blue.

That says nothing about the British people themselves... says quite a bit about my thoughts on the British government, which shouldn't be trusted any further than we could throw 'em.
"Fly, god dammit it fly! God damn cheap Japanese flying packs!"
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warspite1
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

ORIGINAL: JW

ORIGINAL: USS Wyoming

When the US gets a new president, we will reignite our kinship with the UK militarily, strategically and diplomatically. The current president has low regard for the UK and as soon as he's gone-relations will improve.

This

Speak for yourself. The next time I see an American bow to the Queen I think I'll make sure to vomit red, white and blue.

That says nothing about the British people themselves... says quite a bit about my thoughts on the British government, which shouldn't be trusted any further than we could throw 'em.
warspite1

Why? What is showing a bit of respect for a great lady that deserves it got to do with the British Government?
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
gradenko2k
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by gradenko2k »

The UK's spearheading of a no-go on military intervention in Syria played a big part in having the US hold off on the same. That probably worked out better in the long tun than the two going along just because of any "special relationship"
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Boomer78
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by Boomer78 »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

ORIGINAL: JW




This

Speak for yourself. The next time I see an American bow to the Queen I think I'll make sure to vomit red, white and blue.

That says nothing about the British people themselves... says quite a bit about my thoughts on the British government, which shouldn't be trusted any further than we could throw 'em.
warspite1

Why? What is showing a bit of respect for a great lady that deserves it got to do with the British Government?

Oh, come now, Warspite. Whatever happened to that working class revolutionary that the English are so well known for? 'God Save the Queen' had one good thing going for it... it was a song written by the Sex Pistols.

I'll be right there with Johnny Rotten... taking a dump in her crown.
"Fly, god dammit it fly! God damn cheap Japanese flying packs!"
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warspite1
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RE: No longer an asset..

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Boomer78




Speak for yourself. The next time I see an American bow to the Queen I think I'll make sure to vomit red, white and blue.

That says nothing about the British people themselves... says quite a bit about my thoughts on the British government, which shouldn't be trusted any further than we could throw 'em.
warspite1

Why? What is showing a bit of respect for a great lady that deserves it got to do with the British Government?

Oh, come now, Warspite. Whatever happened to that working class revolutionary that the English are so well known for? 'God Save the Queen' had one good thing going for it... it was a song written by the Sex Pistols.

I'll be right there with Johnny Rotten... taking a dump in her crown.
warspite1

Really? How pleasant...

But as I said, what has the Queen got to do with the British Government?
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
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