A Lemon rises in the East: SqzMyLemon (J) vs. JocMeister (A)

[Lokasenna]

The slow leakage implies, to me, that you have replacements and/or factory repairs occurring. If it were a bunch of convoys, you would trend up for several days and then it would drop by more than 1-2k on a single day.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Besides checking to see if too many airframe and engine factories are repairing, double check your "CS Convoys" to see if they drop off Resources and return with Supplies. I've done it in the past, so I know it can be overlooked. [:(]

Glad to see you posting Mike. [8D]

I thought you'd decided to follow the Allies this time and had abandoned me? [:D]

I only have two CS convoys operating between Hokkaido and Honshu so I will check when I get the turn back from Jocke. I don't think that is the problem. but it doesn't hurt to rule it out.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The slow leakage implies, to me, that you have replacements and/or factory repairs occurring. If it were a bunch of convoys, you would trend up for several days and then it would drop by more than 1-2k on a single day.

It's definitely a combination of something. R&D factories repairing at a faster rate as certain airframes move closer to production is definitely a factor. I've been getting help via PM and have tried a number of things, but so far no love. I turned off all repairs and replacements for one day and still lost supply. It's been suggested that perhaps as more LCU's and air units arrive my inherent supply expenditure for combat forces in Japan is causing the increase so I started looking into things.

Any non-restricted LCU is moved out of Japan almost within days of it arriving in the OOB and almost all starting AA and aviation support units have already been re-deployed. The number of restricted LCU's hasn't increased that much so I don't think they are responsible. There are only a few small LCU's that are rebuilding since being destroyed earlier so that is definitely going to use some supply, but this consistently?

I've filled out most of my air units to max to facilitate training, but it was pointed out that will increase my supply usage. I've begun to downsize these air units or move them completely out of Japan if un-restricted. I've also suspended all air training by setting units to 'stand down' in an effort to stop supply being used for sorties.

When I get the turn back, I will go through everything in Japan again. I will go base by base turning everything off. I must start from a blank template in Japan in order to see where my supply is going. My worst fear is that even with everything turned off it will continue to drop. If that is the case I don't know what else I can do. All I know is that prior to turn 347 I was gaining supply daily. Nothing changed on my end in terms of production that I hadn't already been doing previously at that point in time. It's the consistency of the loss that has me stumped. You'd think there would be situations where either gain or loss would be recorded depending on what had taken replacements or what factories had repaired on any given day. If it's purely R&D then I'll just have to weather the storm until this round of factory repairs runs it's course.

It's far too early to see this kind of drop in supply levels in Japan considering the first real influx of LCU's doesn't occur for another 6 months yet.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Insano

this supply situation is quite troubling. Did you check tracker to see if there is some spoilage occurring somewhere?

Hi insano,

Most supply is concentrated in the larger bases to facilitate repair of factories. The smaller bases where spoilage would be an issue have very low amounts. I don't think spoilage on this scale is the problem. To answer your earlier post it's not a lack of oil either. If I was out of oil in 1942 then I'd clearly lose my head well before this.

[SqzMyLemon]

I've had zero success interdicting Allied transports in China by setting LRCAP missions over the remaining Chinese bases. This indicates to me that Jocke is airlifting supply directly to troops on the ground. What is the best way to intercept these missions? If I just set LRCAP with no target indicated will that be good enough or should I be locating concentrations of Chinese LCU's with recon and targeting those? The Allies are definitely supporting the Chinese in some way as Ops losses of transports occur daily.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I've had zero success interdicting Allied transports in China by setting LRCAP missions over the remaining Chinese bases. This indicates to me that Jocke is airlifting supply directly to troops on the ground. What is the best way to intercept these missions? If I just set LRCAP with no target indicated will that be good enough or should I be locating concentrations of Chinese LCU's with recon and targeting those? The Allies are definitely supporting the Chinese in some way as Ops losses of transports occur daily.

You need to set a target hex for LRCAP to work.

[SqzMyLemon]

China:

Supply recovered quickly after the last deliberate attack against the enemy blocking the road to Kunming so I thought a follow up assault on the heels of the last one would yield dividends. Nope. For a force that apparently is low on supply the Chinese sure can hold when they need to in 3x terrain. AAR follows:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 70,48 (near Kunming)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 32013 troops, 342 guns, 147 vehicles, Assault Value = 864

Defending force 21300 troops, 101 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 588

Japanese adjusted assault: 414

Allied adjusted defense: 709

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2739 casualties reported
Squads: 41 destroyed, 161 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 19 (5 destroyed, 14 disabled)
Vehicles lost 10 (2 destroyed, 8 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
601 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 23 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
15th Division
13th Division
60th Division
19th Tank Regiment
23rd Army
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
21st Mortar Battalion
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
1st Mortar Battalion
11th Army
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
40th Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
54th Chinese Corps
7th War Area
7th Group Army
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment

Production:

J2M2 Jack advances R&D to 4/43.

Well, I turned off all but 4 factories repairing and still lost a net 200 supply. That means with little to no factory expansion, no base expansions, no replacements for any LCU's and all air units grounded (stood down and not training) I don't have enough supply generating capacity in the Home Islands. Is this true? Something is seriously wrong here if so. As I've been saying, up until a certain point I was gaining from 5-8k supply per day and, in some cases over 10k, in Japan. Now I can't get a positive gain in over 40 days. WTF?

The amount of troops in Japan and Hokkaido will only be increasing due to reinforcements over the next 6 months. If I can't add to the supply stockpile I'm doomed. I had a low of just over 500k supply in Japan at one point and grew it back to 1.5 million over the course of 1942 until I hit late November. In less than a month I've lost over 200k supply. I have no idea what changed, but even after shutting everything down I'm still losing supply. I'll have to leave everything shut off until the bleeding stops. Fun times...

It now appears I'll simply run out of supply in the Home Islands while doing nothing. Great.

[SqzMyLemon]

Production:

B6N1 Jill advances R&D to 2/43.

Supply continues to fall. There are only two production factories repairing in Japan, all remaining production and research factories have 'repair' turned off. Japan is essentially shut down yet still bleeds supply daily. I don't know what else I can do.

The plan to airlift the 52nd, 53rd and 54th Divisions to bases in the Kuriles is also not working. The divisions are under Eastern and Central HQ's which are subordinate to General Defence HQ, yet the units do not appear as an airlift option for transport to the bases that have been changed to General Defence HQ command.

I'm extremely frustrated with these developments. To learn that Japan can't even sustain itself supply wise when the entire country is shut down is ridiculous. As I'm unaware of what changed in November to start this spiral, I'm clueless as to the fix. As long as supply continues to drop in Japan there is zero incentive to do anything. I can't ship supply from Japan without increasing the rate at which I run out so performing any kind of combat operations will be completely compromised. This sucks.

[Amoral]

What's your daily supply production on Kyushu? Is it the same now as it was in November?

[witpqs]

I do wish that supply usage and movements (and other resources also) were dropped into a file each turn do that the data could be analyzed.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
Well, I turned off all but 4 factories repairing and still lost a net 200 supply. That means with little to no factory expansion, no base expansions, no replacements for any LCU's and all air units grounded (stood down and not training) I don't have enough supply generating capacity in the Home Islands. Is this true? Something is seriously wrong here if so. As I've been saying, up until a certain point I was gaining from 5-8k supply per day and, in some cases over 10k, in Japan. Now I can't get a positive gain in over 40 days. WTF?

If those 4 factories repaired (you don't say so, but I suspect yes), then you have a net increase of almost 4000/day. So, yes you can but you can't repair factories ...

For the rest of the supply ... yes, I would have another 2 - 4K/day, I'd have to look at the LCU's details to figure it out. However, it is exactly quantifiable.

Japan cannot do everything that we as players want to .... her economy is simply not big enough ... not a by a long shot. Historically, they did not have pilot training programs, massive factory expansions, massive troup replacements etc. because they simply did not have the material to do it. Historically, units went into battle short handed, undersupplied, and with obsolete equipment (like Nates in '44). Samurai spirit was supposed to carry the day. So, in game when we try to do things to the US standard, we run out of supply.

Anyway, let your economy run another 2 - 3 days like it is and then let's see how your supply is.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

If those 4 factories repaired (you don't say so, but I suspect yes), then you have a net increase of almost 4000/day. So, yes you can but you can't repair factories ...

Anyway, let your economy run another 2 - 3 days like it is and then let's see how your supply is.

Two of the factories were R&D that I missed turning off and they did not repair. The other two did as they are production factories so that was 2k supply used.

I've since turned off the two R&D factories, but am letting the production go ahead and repair. Last turn I still lost 1100 supply. Which means even if those factories didn't repair I'd only have gained 900 supply. I was banking 5-8k/day only a month ago so what changed?

I can only operate by what I see. Did I overspend in R&D, definitely, but when watching my supply recover over the course of 1942 I think it was realistic to expect a recovery since I wasn't changing anything further. I'd already set my repairs and they were humming along while still adding positively to the supply stockpile. What changed? I have no idea, but it seems extremely odd that it just stopped. It was like a switch was turned off and no explanation as to why.

I feel like I've been a thrown a curveball when for 11 months the game's been feeding me nothing but fastballs. I haven't messed with HI, LI or anything in the Home Islands. It gets the fuel, oil and resources needed yet something has changed that is now using more supply than previously. I have no idea what.

I am keeping the same settings as you suggest. Nothing other than two production factories are repairing. There are no flights, no replacements, no base expansions or exporting of supply. Other than the daily supply needs of the LCU's in Japan, there is nothing else drawing supply excepting those two factories mentioned previously.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Production:

B6N1 Jill advances R&D to 2/43.

Supply continues to fall. There are only two production factories repairing in Japan, all remaining production and research factories have 'repair' turned off. Japan is essentially shut down yet still bleeds supply daily. I don't know what else I can do.

The plan to airlift the 52nd, 53rd and 54th Divisions to bases in the Kuriles is also not working. The divisions are under Eastern and Central HQ's which are subordinate to General Defence HQ, yet the units do not appear as an airlift option for transport to the bases that have been changed to General Defence HQ command.

I'm extremely frustrated with these developments. To learn that Japan can't even sustain itself supply wise when the entire country is shut down is ridiculous. As I'm unaware of what changed in November to start this spiral, I'm clueless as to the fix. As long as supply continues to drop in Japan there is zero incentive to do anything. I can't ship supply from Japan without increasing the rate at which I run out so performing any kind of combat operations will be completely compromised. This sucks.

I'm going to show my ignorance again. Please forgive me.

Aren't you playing DBB? Doesn't that truncate the supply derived from refinery operations? Could this shortfall (assuming I'm not smoking crack about my base assumptions) be due to the lack of supply produced by Kyushu / Honshu refineries?

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Aren't you playing DBB? Doesn't that truncate the supply derived from refinery operations? Could this shortfall (assuming I'm not smoking crack about my base assumptions) be due to the lack of supply produced by Kyushu / Honshu refineries?

Not to my knowledge. BabesLite doesn't alter the economy in any way. Refineries still produce fuel.

The issue isn't really a lack of supply. The issue is why was the daily supply produced in Japan sufficient to sustain all my factory repairs, aircraft training and LCU replenishment 40 days ago and still generate extra supply to be stockpiled, but now can't even sustain two factories repairing when everything else is turned off? What changed so drastically in terms of supply use to send the stockpile into freefall? Tracker says Japan produces 20k of supply/day and I was banking 5-8k/day while only consuming about 12-15k of supply daily a month ago. When I began to notice that supply was decreasing by 5k/day for example, that now meant I was consuming 25k supply per day and eating into the stockpile. That's quite an increase in supply consumption, but yet I don't understand where that change is occurring.

The only thing that has changed is more airframes are able to take advantage of the R&D engine bonus. Does R&D acceleration somehow consume supply as it does engines? That's the only thing I can think of that might be using the supply, nothing else has changed from previous conditions that allowed supply to be stockpiled.

[Lokasenna]

This may be a stupid question, but is any of your industry failing to produce? If you have stockpiling of Resources turned on somewhere, for example.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

This may be a stupid question, but is any of your industry failing to produce? If you have stockpiling of Resources turned on somewhere, for example.

Not at all. I'm not stockpiling anything in Japan and the only industry failing is HI in China/Manchuria due to lack of fuel reaching the bases. All HI, LI and refineries in Japan are producing at full capacity and all repair is set to no.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

This may be a stupid question, but is any of your industry failing to produce? If you have stockpiling of Resources turned on somewhere, for example.

Not at all. I'm not stockpiling anything in Japan and the only industry failing is HI in China/Manchuria due to lack of fuel reaching the bases. All HI, LI and refineries in Japan are producing at full capacity and all repair is set to no.

Alright.

I think your next step is to go granular. Go to Bases in Tracker, filter the region to Japan.

Then go through and look at the resource history of each base. That should at least give you some idea of where supply is being spent. It'll take a little while, though.

[SqzMyLemon]

I might have figured out what the problem with supply is. I won't know until I get the next turn back.

[obvert]

I've been following. Just has been as mysterious to me as it is to you. Haven't had any ideas to add, but I hope you have got it sussed. [;)]

[SqzMyLemon]

Another quiet turn, but Allied submarines are popping up everywhere and launching attacks that have resulted in duds so far. That's not going to happen so often now that 1943 is just around the corner. My naval ASW is starting to get some hits in when enemy submarines are operating in shallow water which is occurring quite often.

Japanese submarines continue to suffer bad luck. SS I-8 duds on an xAKL north of Fiji [8|]. I've had my share of duds despite superior torpedoes.

This is a big turn. An important TF must slip unnoticed through an Allied submarine net which if discovered could cause me much grief. However, if I'm unlucky and spotted, it pales in comparison to not having supply in Japan. If I can't start stockpiling supply again soon this game will be over by 1944.