What's Up With The BEF?

[GaPete_slith]

I found one other thread on this but the answers proved to be less than satisfactory so I shall make a new one. Why is it that the British are not allowed to move in to France (at least on the first turn). So far, I've managed to get Gort landed on the second turn but, no other CW troops will land there. I've tried transports and disembarks from the North Sea and the Med. The Error bar says something about foreign troop commitment limits. Huh? Now I don't have my physical copy yet so I don't have all the rule books but, I have been over the PDF's. I can't find a single rule limiting troops deployments. In fact the only place I can find the term Foreign Troop Commitments is in some rules on Vichy France. It makes me wonder if this is not a rule but a bug. If there is something I'm missing here, I'm all ears.

[markb50k]

see pg 141 of the Rules_As_Coded.pdf

Gort has to land first, then up to his reorg value in units can join him.

[Klydon]

Also, if you had a transport carry Gort directly to the mainland (IE, the transport is stacked with Gort in France) the transport also counts against the limit of units the CW may have in France. Trying to have another transport dock with another land unit won't be allowed as it counts as 2 more units and would be over Gort's command rating.

The best way (not necessarily the safest) to land the BEF is pick up the land units and keep the transports at sea in the North Sea. Take a land move after that and you can land Gort and 2 other ground units all in the same turn. The Germans may try to take a wack at the transports, but if they are guarded fairly well, the Germans likely won't be successful.

[Orm]

CW and France do not co-operate as you can read in 18.1 and 18.2 handles the foreign HQ rule but the main rule that applies to BEF I cut in below. I do recommend that you read up on 18.1 and 18.2 since it has great impact on the game.



Cut from RAC:
11.11 Land movement
....
11.11.5 Active major powers
You can move a land unit controlled by an active major power into any hex controlled by:
• that major power and its aligned minors; or
• another active major power on the same side (or its controlled minor countries); or
• a major power or minor country it is at war with.
There are some exceptions:
• units can’t enter the home country of a non co-operating major power on the same side unless they satisfy the
foreign troop commitment rules (see 18.2); and
• minor country units can’t enter a hex controlled by another minor country aligned with their side unless they
satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules.
• units cannot enter a country controlled by another power on their side without permission of the owner.

[joshuamnave]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Also, if you had a transport carry Gort directly to the mainland (IE, the transport is stacked with Gort in France) the transport also counts against the limit of units the CW may have in France. Trying to have another transport dock with another land unit won't be allowed as it counts as 2 more units and would be over Gort's command rating.

The best way (not necessarily the safest) to land the BEF is pick up the land units and keep the transports at sea in the North Sea. Take a land move after that and you can land Gort and 2 other ground units all in the same turn. The Germans may try to take a wack at the transports, but if they are guarded fairly well, the Germans likely won't be successful.

The safer way to do the same thing is to move the transports to Bay of Biscay. The drawback is that the BEF has to land on the west coast of France, and then rail to the front. But unless Germany breaks through Belgium in Sep/Oct, that's not a huge issue. The German fleet can't move from the north sea to bay of Biscay, so it has to go around Faroe's, both coming and going. That puts them in a low sea box and makes them susceptible to multiple interception attempts.

[Courtenay]

However, moving to the North Sea gives the Allies the option of shipping the BEF to Rotterdam if the Germans try an early attack on the Netherlands.

Of course, the Germans can respond by trying an invasion of Rotterdam, but that might be intercepted, and the Germans are forced to use a combined when they wanted to use a land.

There are many trade offs in WiF; it is usually not obvious what the best play is.

[GaPete_slith]

Thanks for the help guys. Actually most of that I had found in the other post but none of it seemed to work. I think I finally figured out what the problem was though. It must count the air units against the limit as well. I had forgotten about them.

[paulderynck]

All units are counted if they end the step in France. Land units cannot even enter a hex if they need FTC to do so. Air units can do so, as long as they leave once the mission is complete. FREX FTRs in the UK can intercept a German paradrop on CW units (not French units though because of the cooperation rules) - even though the FTRs are over the "FTC level"

Another example is an Air Transport bringing a CW Inf Div or Mtn unit into France when the FTC is at "Max minus 1" and then the Air Transport returns to the UK.

[joshuamnave]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

However, moving to the North Sea gives the Allies the option of shipping the BEF to Rotterdam if the Germans try an early attack on the Netherlands.

Of course, the Germans can respond by trying an invasion of Rotterdam, but that might be intercepted, and the Germans are forced to use a combined when they wanted to use a land.

There are many trade offs in WiF; it is usually not obvious what the best play is.

And the tradeoff for landing units in Rotterdam for the British is keeping them in supply. It means using one of their precious starting CP's in the North Sea (assuming overseas supply rule), where it is subject to attack by the German Nav bomber as well as the fleet or subs. Put the BEF out of supply, and that's a few dead ground units that the UK can ill afford to rebuild early in the game. Indeed, a series of tradeoffs!

[paulderynck]

In contested waters, with LOS, better to use a TRS and CVs to keep supply in place. Go to a high box to start with, slide down one at turn end, then slide down again and pick up reinforcements (or evacuate). At the low end of the sea box numbers, you can add in FTR support.