Command HQ prep

[jay102]

Do Command HQs really need prepare for an enemy base first to offer the assault bonus there?

In the Downfall scenario, the whole V US Amphibi Corp( including 3 marine divisions, 1 Corp HQ, 1 amphib HQ, several Arty, Arm and Eng) have all perfectly prepared for Kanoya for 50 points on day 1, however the Southwest Pacific HQ(the nearest Command HQ sit at Okinawa) has nothing prepared. I think the designer has no reason to leave it unprepared if the assault bonus is tied to Command HQ's prep level.

Another thought makes me skeptic about the Command HQ prep is, with it in mind, player can do some very unrealistic behaviour like concentrating all Command HQ(with different target prepared) to front line base. I guess designers probably won't like see that.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: jay102

Do Command HQs really need prepare for an enemy base first to offer the assault bonus there?

In the Downfall scenario, the whole V US Amphibi Corp( including 3 marine divisions, 1 Corp HQ, 1 amphib HQ, several Arty, Arm and Eng) have all perfectly prepared for Kanoya for 50 points on day 1, however the Southwest Pacific HQ(the nearest Command HQ sit at Okinawa) has nothing prepared. I think the designer has no reason to leave it unprepared if the assault bonus is tied to Command HQ's prep level.

Another thought makes me skeptic about the Command HQ prep is, with it in mind, player can do some very unrealistic behaviour like concentrating all Command HQ to one front line base. I guess designers probably won't like see that.

My understanding is that multiple HQs of the same type don't confer stacking bonuses.

I think the Command HQ bonus can go above and beyond the corps or army HQ bonus to assault value, but you can't have multiple Command HQs each giving a bonus. Or multiple corps/army HQs (whichever gives the bonus...is it both?).

At least that's my understanding.

[jay102]

I think you may misunderstood.I'm not talking about stacking bonus from multiple Command HQs. I mean whether a Command HQ need prepare for an enemey base first(pass the prep check) to grant the additional 90% assault bonus above the bonus from Corp/Army HQ.

[Lokasenna]

Ah, I thought you were asking two questions. I meant to be answering the one here:

Another thought makes me skeptic about the Command HQ prep is, with it in mind, player can do some very unrealistic behaviour like concentrating all Command HQ to one front line base. I guess designers probably won't like see that.

As to whether a Command HQ needs prep... I've always just assumed that it does. Maybe that's only for defending, though - that's all prep does for local LCUs, I think. I haven't checked this section of the manual in some time.

[Capt Hornblower]

Although divining the intent of the designers from the content of the manual can be fraught with danger [;)], I interpret the HEADQUARTERS and OBJECTIVES subsections of the GROUND UNITS section of the manual to mean that the primary utility of the unit OBJECTIVE button is to prepare combat units and their immediately involved headquarters for assaulting (or defending) particular hexes. Command HQs within 2x their command radius impart a bonus (explicitly mentioned in the manual), but there is no explicit statement to the effect that a Command HQ must have the objective hex designated in order for the bonus to be awarded. (In fact, I would find such a requirement to be counterintuitive, since Command (i.e., Theater) HQs should quite often be involved in planning multiple operations simultaneously.)

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: jay102

Do Command HQs really need prepare for an enemy base first to offer the assault bonus there?

In the Downfall scenario, the whole V US Amphibi Corp( including 3 marine divisions, 1 Corp HQ, 1 amphib HQ, several Arty, Arm and Eng) have all perfectly prepared for Kanoya for 50 points on day 1, however the Southwest Pacific HQ(the nearest Command HQ sit at Okinawa) has nothing prepared. I think the designer has no reason to leave it unprepared if the assault bonus is tied to Command HQ's prep level.

Another thought makes me skeptic about the Command HQ prep is, with it in mind, player can do some very unrealistic behaviour like concentrating all Command HQ(with different target prepared) to front line base. I guess designers probably won't like see that.

Your assumptions are incorrect.

For a LCU to get the combat bonus, it and the HQs must have the same objective.

Patch 1 (from 2009) makes it very clear.

77. Gameplay Change: When calculating the bonus for land unit planning for a target, the land unit and its HQs (corps and command) must be planning for same target to get the full HQ bonuses.

Otherwise there would be far too many gamey loopholes.

Alfred

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: jay102

Do Command HQs really need prepare for an enemy base first to offer the assault bonus there?

In the Downfall scenario, the whole V US Amphibi Corp( including 3 marine divisions, 1 Corp HQ, 1 amphib HQ, several Arty, Arm and Eng) have all perfectly prepared for Kanoya for 50 points on day 1, however the Southwest Pacific HQ(the nearest Command HQ sit at Okinawa) has nothing prepared. I think the designer has no reason to leave it unprepared if the assault bonus is tied to Command HQ's prep level.

Another thought makes me skeptic about the Command HQ prep is, with it in mind, player can do some very unrealistic behaviour like concentrating all Command HQ(with different target prepared) to front line base. I guess designers probably won't like see that.

Your assumptions are incorrect.

For a LCU to get the combat bonus, it and the HQs must have the same objective.

Patch 1 (from 2009) makes it very clear.

77. Gameplay Change: When calculating the bonus for land unit planning for a target, the land unit and its HQs (corps and command) must be planning for same target to get the full HQ bonuses.

Otherwise there would be far too many gamey loopholes.

Alfred

From this I've always assumed that it does not matter how many prep points the HQ has to receive this bonus. But the manual implies PPs do matter?

[JocMeister]

As I understands it the more PP the greater chance for the HQ to pass its check(s?)?

Both the Command and Corp HQ has to pass their checks to pass in order for the 90% bonus to apply. Having 20 PP for a target would give you a significant lower chance to pass those checks than if you had 100PP. If both HQ only have 20 PPs for a target I would assume chances for both to pass their checks would be slim. I have failed the check on occasions despite a 100/100 prepp.

That at least how it was explained to me. Sounds reasonable!

[jay102]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

As I understands it the more PP the greater chance for the HQ to pass its check(s?)?

Both the Command and Corp HQ has to pass their checks to pass in order for the 90% bonus to apply. Having 20 PP for a target would give you a significant lower chance to pass those checks than if you had 100PP. If both HQ only have 20 PPs for a target I would assume chances for both to pass their checks would be slim. I have failed the check on occasions despite a 100/100 prepp.

That at least how it was explained to me. Sounds reasonable!

Patch 1 (from 2009) makes it very clear.

77. Gameplay Change: When calculating the bonus for land unit planning for a target, the land unit and its HQs (corps and command) must be planning for same target to get the full HQ bonuses.

According to Alfred's explanation, a failed check despite a 100/100 may caused by the mismatched command hierachy. LCUs may only get full bonuses when its own corp/command HQs have prepared for the same target and passed the check. This could sound reasonable.[8|]

[guytipton41]

ORIGINAL: jay102

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

As I understands it the more PP the greater chance for the HQ to pass its check(s?)?

Both the Command and Corp HQ has to pass their checks to pass in order for the 90% bonus to apply. Having 20 PP for a target would give you a significant lower chance to pass those checks than if you had 100PP. If both HQ only have 20 PPs for a target I would assume chances for both to pass their checks would be slim. I have failed the check on occasions despite a 100/100 prepp.

That at least how it was explained to me. Sounds reasonable!

Patch 1 (from 2009) makes it very clear.

77. Gameplay Change: When calculating the bonus for land unit planning for a target, the land unit and its HQs (corps and command) must be planning for same target to get the full HQ bonuses.

According to Alfred's explanation, a failed check despite a 100/100 may caused by the mismatched command hierachy. LCUs may only get full bonuses when its own corp/command HQs have prepared for the same target and passed the check. This could sound reasonable.[8|]

Hi Folks

If I was writing the code I would not have made the bonus a sure thing. I would have started out with a simple chance - like half - that the good effect would occur. Then the other variable would be taken into account. After a few dozen test runs I would look at the distribution of combat results and tweak the initial value if the results didn't look good. There is no real-world data that could be used to calibrate this algo - you wind up with gut feel. So don't over think the problem!

Cheers
Guy

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: jay102
According to Alfred's explanation, a failed check despite a 100/100 may caused by the mismatched command hierachy. LCUs may only get full bonuses when its own corp/command HQs have prepared for the same target and passed the check. This could sound reasonable.[8|]

If that is indeed what Alfred means that does not match my own experience with the game.

From my experience as long as you have a Command/HQ combo prepped you can get the bonus regardless of to what HQs the troops are attached to. I have received the bonus on countless occasions with a grand mismatch of troops attached to a myriad of diffrent HQs. Its the Command/Corp combo that matters. The only thing that matters for the LCUs is that they are prepped for the same target as the HQ combo.

[SqzMyLemon]

I've always wondered if the 90% bonus applies only to the attacker or does the defender get a similar bonus when fully prepped for defending a base?

[Alfred]

Answers to the follow up questions.
 
1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.
 
2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.
 
3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.
 
4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread
 
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective&#2223504
 
which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.
 
5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:
 
for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value
 
 
The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.
 
Alfred

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Answers to the follow up questions.

1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.

2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.

3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.

4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective&#2223504

which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.

5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:

for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value


The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.

Alfred

I'm assuming from this that Army HQ are treated as Corps HQ.

[LoBaron]

I love your precise and clear explanations, Alfred.

On thing to add, as I think this is misinterpreted very often:

The bonus/malus display in the combat report is per unit. If a single unit in th ehex receives the HQ bonus it is listed, even if there are 5 other units in the hex who did not receive the bonus.
(this is very similar to others such as supply (-). If just a single unit in a hex is out of supply, for whatever reason, the CR shows the supply (-). This is important to keep in mind when drawing conclusions about battle results with large numbers of units involved.)

[Gaspote]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Answers to the follow up questions.

1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.

2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.

3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.

4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective�

which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.

5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:

for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value


The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.

Alfred

I'm not sure to understand correctly so I ask with an example.

25th Army HQ and all of these ground units are 100% prep for Singapore. Southern Army is 100% prep for Singapore.

A) If Southern Army is in 1x range of command. Does it act like a Corps so the bonus will be 10+10+90 (Army+Corps+Command) ?

B) If Southern Army is in 2x range of command. It won't act like a Corps so does the bonus is of 10% (just Army because there are no Corps in range) ?

C) If a SNLF of combined fleet 100% prep for Singapore is following 25th Army's HQ in case A. Does it will get a bonus ?

D) If allies counter-attack in case A, Does the bonus of Command HQ will be take into account (in case of defense) ?

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Answers to the follow up questions.

1.  The change log #77 from patch 1 was worded clumsily.  It is not to be inferred that the Chain of Command must be followed.  The "its HQs" was meant to mean the applicable HQs which are within range of the LCU and intended to assist.

2.  Defenders can also gain the combat bonus.  This means that when defending a base, even units with no attacking assault value devices should still have the base as their objective because when defending support type squads are counted as having an assault value of 1/10 for odds calculations.

3.  Being 100% prepped for an objective is not in itself a 100% guarantee that the combat bonuses will be present.  Leader ratings also modify the availability and quantum of combat bonuses received.  A Command HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 90%.  A Corps HQ can give a combat bonus within the range of 0% to 10%.  Having both Command and Corps HQs within range and at 100% prepped value, can give a combat bonus within the range 0% to 100%.

4.  In determining whether the HQs may provide a combat bonus, both the level and target of the HQ objective is checked.  See BigJ62's last post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2223071&mpage=1&key=objective?

which is the only reference from a dev I have ever tracked down which expands on what the manual states on page 178.

5.  In practical terms, where time is not critical, the desirable prepped thresholds are:

for an atoll invasion - 100%, although anything above 80% might be OK if the landing troops have minimal disruption and the defenders are badly disrupted/fatigued etc
for land combat not in base - anything as objectives do not apply outside of base hexes
for land combat in a base - ideally 100% but anything above 50% will probably be of some value


The closer to 100% prepped for LCU and applicable HQs, the better it is.  However any level below 30 is almost guaranteed to be of no value.

Alfred

I'm assuming from this that Army HQ are treated as Corps HQ.

Correct.

Alfred

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

... I'm not sure to understand correctly so I ask with an example.

25th Army HQ and all of these ground units are 100% prep for Singapore. Southern Army is 100% prep for Singapore.

A) If Southern Army is in 1x range of command. Does it act like a Corps so the bonus will be 10+10+90 (Army+Corps+Command) ?

B) If Southern Army is in 2x range of command. It won't act like a Corps so does the bonus is of 10% (just Army because there are no Corps in range) ?

C) If a SNLF of combined fleet 100% prep for Singapore is following 25th Army's HQ in case A. Does it will get a bonus ?

D) If allies counter-attack in case A, Does the bonus of Command HQ will be take into account (in case of defense) ?

1. LCU looks to see if a Corps HQ is in range. If a Corps HQ is found, proceed to points 2-6 below. If no Corps HQ is found, proceed to points 7-8 below



2. If Corps HQ is within range, the level and target of the Corps HQ is checked and a combat bonus within the range 0-10% may be given.

3. If more than one Corps HQ is within range, the levels and targets of the additional Corps HQs are not checked.

4. If a Corps HQ within range was found, the LCU then sees if a Command HQ is within 2x range.

5. If Command HQ is within 2x range, the level and target of the Command HQ is checked and an additional combat bonus within the range 0-90% may be given.

6. If more than one Command HQ is within 2x range, the levels and targets of the additional Command HQs are not checked.



7. If no Corps HQ is found by the LCU, it then looks to see if a Command HQ is in 1x range.

8. If a Command HQ is within 1x range, the level and target of the Command HQ is checked and a combat bonus within the range 0-10% may be given.



9. The combat bonus applies to combat conducted inside the named base.

10. An Army HQ = a Corps HQ. The only difference is that a Corps HQ usually has only a one hex range whereas an Army HQ might have a range of up to five hexes.


A LCU may therefore receive assistance from:

(a) one Corps HQ only, or
(b) one Corps HQ and one Command HQ, or
(c) one Command HQ only

Alfred

[EHansen]

I would like to ask about 2 & 3 and by extension 5 & 6.
If I have two Corps HQ within range with different targets, does the LCU
check the second if the first has a target that is different than the LCU?

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: EHansen

I would like to ask about 2 & 3 and by extension 5 & 6.
If I have two Corps HQ within range with different targets, does the LCU
check the second if the first has a target that is different than the LCU?

Answered directly in post #6.

Alfred