Serious wargame?

[USSLockwood]

I am interested in this game but I am concerned about reports of Tiger tanks at Stalingrad, to say nothing of vampires and werewolves. Is
this a East front simulation or a 'beer and pretzels' game? A fast and fun game has it's place, it's just not what I'm looking for.

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: doktor

I am interested in this game but I am concerned about reports of Tiger tanks at Stalingrad, to say nothing of vampires and werewolves. Is
this a East front simulation or a 'beer and pretzels' game? A fast and fun game has it's place, it's just not what I'm looking for.

This is not a simulation. It's a fast paced squad level tactical combat game. There are some fun units in the campaigns as Mark Walker, the creator, is also a writer and likes to tell a story.

The Tiger tanks only show up in the stand alone scenarios that take place at other times/places than Stalingrad. The campaigns are based in and around Stalingrad.

It's more than beer & pretzels but not a bullet counting simulation.

[Erik Rutins]

Just as a note - Tigers are not in Stalingrad, but they are in the game. The game outside the campaigns covers more ground than just Stalingrad, it's Eastern Front mid-war based.

There are also some optional scenarios and fun units - you are not required to play with these, they are effectively easter eggs put in by the development team for fun and because Mark also makes some great games that are not purely historical.

In short, if you want a historical wargame, here it is, but historical does not preclude fun or fast-paced.

Regards,

- Erik

[markhwalker]

What?! Werewolves? There aren't any werewolves in this game. Not.a.single.one. You're thinking of the "Monster" scenario that I designed for the board game.

[fentum]

ORIGINAL: markhwalker

What?! Werewolves? There aren't any werewolves in this game. Not.a.single.one. You're thinking of the "Monster" scenario that I designed for the board game.

But there ARE vampires, right????

[:@]

[Erik Rutins]

We can neither confirm nor deny that.

[markhwalker]

But there ARE vampires, right????

Only if you want there to be. [:)] I mean, come on, who has ever heard of a Romanian vampire. Oh yeah, there was that whole Impaler thing.

[fentum]

ORIGINAL: doktor

I am interested in this game but I am concerned about reports of Tiger tanks at Stalingrad, to say nothing of vampires and werewolves. Is
this a East front simulation or a 'beer and pretzels' game? A fast and fun game has it's place, it's just not what I'm looking for.

Herr Doktor,

Es tut mir leid.

I may have been guilty of introducing elements of folklore into the forums.

THIS IS A PROPER WARGAME.

There exists a LnL boardgame called All Things Zombie, but I am referencing that for fun. I believe that there may be one or two unusual units in the PC counter mix, but you can ignore them.

THIS IS A PROPER WARGAME.

Regards,

Fentum

[chemkid]

.

[z1812]

I consider myself a serious wargamer. Just having bought the game 2 days ago I have finished the tutorials and I like what I see so far. There are some elements I am unsure of and will have to gain a better understanding of before forming a proper opinion.

However at this scale, already the detail I see is more than what is available in any other board type PC game. For instance the ability to button or unbutton a tank. To turn the tank turret. To set up and exchange crewed weapons. Heroic action and the like.

If the scenarios play out as I hope they will, then I will be quite satisfied............even if there is no area fire

[JD Smith43]

This is a good wargame. Much like THE BOARDGAME WHICH MUST NOT BE MENTIONED it has the capability to get up a broad range of scenarios. Hopefully future expansions will add more nations, maps, and options.

[ioticus]

I really like the LnL system and have played the board game a few times. I like my PC board game ports to be 100% copies of the rules of the board game with no changes. Is this a 100% port with no mechanics changes?

[Tom Proudfoot]

We should make a list at some point. It's not much:

- Snipers are placed by the scenario, not interruption moves by player
- New flanking fire modifier

That's all I remember. Barthheart can probably remind me if there are any others. [;)]

[Barthheart]

ORIGINAL: Tom Proudfoot

We should make a list at some point. It's not much:

- Snipers are placed by the scenario, not interruption moves by player
- New flanking fire modifier

That's all I remember. Barthheart can probably remind me if there are any others. [;)]

Hidden units - enemy units that none of your units have an LoS to are not shown on the map.

[jzardos]

IMO, to be brief. This game is AWESOME!! Being able to play out of the box without any major issues! Oh let's not forget the fantastic graphics and incredible (never ending) fun factor. Best money I have spent on game in years.

[ioticus]

If that's all the changes there are it doesn't sound too bad. I still wish there were an option to get a 100% board game experience though.

[Hrothgar]

I realize that one who is familiar with the board game may have developed an attachment to the way things work there. However, from everything I understand, the changes are minimal. Why would one want to be able to see enemy units which are not visible to one's own? The change to the sniper implementation certainly can't have much impact. So, that leaves flanking fire. This is surely a welcome decision, and, like the hidden units, simply taking advantage of the different possibilities of computer games.

I would think that any LnL veteran would feel right at home with this game.

[SilliusSodus]

ORIGINAL: ioticus

If that's all the changes there are it doesn't sound too bad. I still wish there were an option to get a 100% board game experience though.

As another fan of the board game I do share the sentiment. However this is extremely close to the board game. I don't think any fan of the board game would be disappointed definitely worth getting

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: doktor
Is this a East front simulation or a 'beer and pretzels' game? A fast and fun game has it's place, it's just not what I'm looking for.

This game is certainly fast and fun, and not a simulation. I'm on the fence as to whether I consider it a "real wargame", but it certainly has a lot of nice touches.

As far as mechanics, each player takes turns moving/firing/laying smoke, etc. and I'm not yet sure if I'm a fan of this mechanic, as once a unit fires against one unit, it is helpless against following units. But it definitely makes for some interesting decisions!

And no dig on the devs (its actually intended as a complement), while the mechanics are very different from ASL, and it is much simpler than ASL, it is also similar in many ways and provides many of the same thrills.

[Grotius]

I suppose there is a spectrum from "beer and pretzels" to "hardcore grognard sim". This is closer to the grognard end of the spectrum, in my opinion, even if it's not as hardcore as some titles. It "feels" more like ASL or Combat Commander than Panzer Corps, at least to me.

As the previous poster mentioned, turn-based gameplay tends to make for a chesslike experience. On a pure gameplay level, I love that experience -- I prefer it to the real-time model, even if real-time is more "realistic." Besides, a good turn-based engine can represent reality pretty well. Moreover, LnL a platform for further scenario and campaign development, and in that respect (as in others) it does call to mind ASL or Combat Commander.