Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

Do you ever own the skies in this game? It seems that the enemy has endless numbers of aircraft, too.

I'm pretty good with upgrading, but unless you can build lots of Panthers/Tigers- it's going to be difficult to beat the Russian tanks. Tigers in '43 cost over 1200 prestige each.

I do space out upgrades.

I don't agree that the air war is secondary in the East. Are you playing vanilla PzC or DLC Grand Campaign? The Russians usually have 24+ aircraft each scenario.

I have played both versions, along with many of the mods, to completion. Eventually I own the air but sometimes it take more than a few turns.

While the air war in the East cannot be ignored it's the tanks that will settle it there. In the West the air war is much different. In Normandy there are about 20 allied units at start so you better have more than a few fighters or else you will be wiped out quick.

In the East 5-6 fighter units can usually get you by. You need to be selective on the order you try to take out the Russians. I try to eliminate their fighters first then go for their FB then their bombers. In the West I try to have 8-10 fighters/fighter bombers. The FB can finish off wounded Allied fighters and then go to ground attack later in the mission if necessary. They are also not bad against straight bombers especially with experience and a hero or two. In the West it pays to have the best fighters, preferably with many stars and heroes. In the East I find the FW's are good a lot longer. I typically don't go for the better planes until late 44/early 45 on the East Front.

When the KT is available you should begin to upgrade in order to have almost an all KT/Panthers tank force. You may have a few PZ IV's but they can't be the bulk of your tanks units even on the West Front.

I rarely use Tiger I's as you get no break when you upgrade from any earlier tank and no to go to the KT. It's not that I don't like the Tiger I, it's the cost I hate. My favorite SE unit is a Tiger I . I begin to upgrade my PZ III's to Panthers as soon as I can and they end up as G's. I use my PZ IV's to go to KT if possible. It's expensive but not as expensive as going to Tiger then KT.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

How is air superiority achieved? I don't think the number of allied aircraft ever diminishes regardless of how many I destroy through the campaign.

You can eventually wipe out the allied air force. The key is to kill a unit, not just knock it down to 1 point.

[joe6778]

Hmmm...I'm missing something then, because I do wipe out as many fighters as possible. I weaken them with my overstrength FW190s and finish them off with overstrength ME109Gs or FBs. I then destroy all their bombers, but by the next scenario, they're all back.

I usually have about 8-10 fighters, mostly FW190s, a couple of ME109Gs, plus 2 Stuka tank busters, 2 strat bombers, and an ME110G.

If actions I took in one scenario, like wiping out their air units, carried over into following scenarios, then I would like the game better. I reached East '44, and I don't see that happening.

[RandomAttack]

What James said. I usually have about 6 fighters and 2-3 tac bombers. Set traps for them (just out of LOS, so they fly into you-- if you are lucky you will kill a couple in ambush). I've heard different strategies, but I always go for enemy fighters first-- and complete the kills! I would rather eliminate 2-3 than just damage 5-6 (you will then have to fight them again after they reinforce...) Then their bombers are all sitting ducks. You almost always have a few turns between "waves". I ALWAYS get air superiority at some point-- not to say the "spawning" waves don't get their shots in, but it's manageable.

You are right-- AI losses don't carry over. The briefings give hints at how much enemy air to expect.

[joe6778]

Sorry- I don't see this happening in my own experience. Six fighters??? I have over that and I do exactly what you suggest. After destroying their first wave of air units, the second and third waves come.

These tactics works in the DLC Grand Campaigns '39-'42, but starting in '43 I get my clock cleaned.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

Hmmm...I'm missing something then, because I do wipe out as many fighters as possible. I weaken them with my overstrength FW190s and finish them off with overstrength ME109Gs or FBs. I then destroy all their bombers, but by the next scenario, they're all back.

I usually have about 8-10 fighters, mostly FW190s, a couple of ME109Gs, plus 2 Stuka tank busters, 2 strat bombers, and an ME110G.

If actions I took in one scenario, like wiping out their air units, carried over into following scenarios, then I would like the game better. I reached East '44, and I don't see that happening.

Oh I thought you meant in a particular scenario. Yes they always come back. They are like a bad penny, with cannons!

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

Sorry- I don't see this happening in my own experience. Six fighters??? I have over that and I do exactly what you suggest. After destroying their first wave of air units, the second and third waves come.

These tactics works in the DLC Grand Campaigns '39-'42, but starting in '43 I get my clock cleaned.

You can do it, just be patient and realize you will take some lumps from their air units initially. You can also use AA units if you need to, they are much cheaper than fighters and if they are 88's have the added value of tank killers after the air war is decided.

In the West 6 air units is not enough, even in Italy. In the East you can certainly own the air.

If the Russian is using his prestige on his fighters then he's not using it on his tanks so it's what you want!

[joe6778]

The air war is only a part of my problem with this game- the sheer number of enemy units is staggering. Artillery and air units protecting other units only get one shot. After that, my units are attacked three and sometimes more times until they're crippled or destroyed. I'll be thinking that after destroying so many of the enemy that I'm making a dent in their force, and then I check the map (after surrendering) and there are still many more units surrounding objectives.

Like I said, I'm doing all of the things that have been suggested here, but I'm getting killed (and frustrated) on Colonel and can't believe people have won on higher difficulties.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

The air war is only a part of my problem with this game- the sheer number of enemy units is staggering. Artillery and air units protecting other units only get one shot. After that, my units are attacked three and sometimes more times until they're crippled or destroyed. I'll be thinking that after destroying so many of the enemy that I'm making a dent in their force, and then I check the map (after surrendering) and there are still many more units surrounding objectives.

Like I said, I'm doing all of the things that have been suggested here, but I'm getting killed (and frustrated) on Colonel and can't believe people have won on higher difficulties.

Try adjusting where you start. If you are defending it's usually not necessary to start right up front, maybe deploy farther back. Make the AI move to you if you can. That way his force isn't so concentrated and you can take them out piecemeal. Never be afraid to retreat, you can usually go back later.

If you are attacking try to go slow and steady. You have enough time in most of the later scenarios to get a marginal victory.

Which ones in particular give you the most trouble?

[joe6778]

I have tried that. I stayed put after setting up and waited for the attack. I was able to ambush some and I took some damage, but the final outcome is the same; when I advance on my objectives, I get crippled by more enemy (sometimes coming from off map as in Syracuse 42/43 West).

The last scenario I played that made me move away from playing again was Kursk.

Like I said, I have made it once to East '44. But I'm getting blasted on Colonel and I can't believe others can win on higher difficulties- it's the numbers!

If I'm the attacker against a force at 2:1 or 1:1 odds, that's challenging. If I'm attacking a force at 1:2 or 1:3 odds, that's suicidal and that's DLC after '43.

[James Ward]

Kursk is definitely a slow but steady scenario. There is more time than you think. Don't spread your forces out to much or try to advance on to wide of a front. Only go for the main VP's, ignore all the others. In the south I found that massing on the east edge of the map and curling down to the west gave me the best chance. If you have slots a bridge engineer can help get across the river once you are also advancing from the NW. In the North stay concentrated until you breach the line then fan out and create two battle groups to go for the VP hexes. Stay concentrated and take out as many of the big tanks as you can as quickly as possible.

You should win the air war pretty easy if you have good fighters. Then use a Strat bomber to deplete ammo any artillery you can and suppress where you need to take. This is one scenario where you want a decent amount of artillery. Towed is best as it has more shots but SP works too. If you managed to get a range hero then try to place that unit to cover as many spots as possible even if it mean giving up a turn of fire to move it to the best location. Again, do not rush this scenario. You have time and you don't have to conquer the map, just go for the VP's.

Is Syracuse the invasion of Sicily? If so then this is one where you need air power. You need to at least gain an advantage if you can't win out right air ownership. A few Strats here can go a long way too. Just remember to try and escort them, move them first and then try to position fighter next to them after the fighter (hopefully) get an attack in on a weakend allied plane before they move. Strats will do a number on the allied ships and any LC venturing around the island. A slow retreat works best, understanding that every Italian will die so try to have them take something with them. Give up the west side but the longer any Italians live the more allied troops will go there so get somewhere and wait. The allies will find you. Defend until their fate is sealed them go out in a blaze of glory.

Hold your Germans ground units out of the fight as long as possible and try to create some bottlenecks where you can rotate a new unit in but really clog up the allied advance. You may even want to purchase a few AA units even though they will probably die in the scenario. They are pretty cheap and can give that little extra help in the air war. There isn't a lot of maneuver room or good terrain for armor so the Strats can help out with the Allied infantry if there are no naval units to hit. Wear them down. Hit the armor in terrain. Wear them down. The goal is to just outlast the allies not defeat them. It is not unusual to lose core units in this one. Sometimes it happens.

[joe6778]

In the Kursk scenario, I'm able to take the NW objective pretty easily, but then I get attacked by a very large force from the NE of my position.
If I start with units east across the river, I'm attacked by a large force from the north. I have even setup and stayed west of the river and used a bridge engineer to cross parallel to the air field midmap, but my units crossing are overwhelmed by yet another large force before they can establish a bridgehead. When my main force reached the center of the map, I saw that the remaining objectives were defended by heavy entrenchments and many units. I still needed to take three or four objectives. So I quit out of frustration.

The West scenario I mean may not be called Syracuse. It's the one where I have to evacuate 18 units to the mainland from Sicily. I can't use too many air units because they count toward my force limit and I don't have many ground units over 18. I did come within three or four evacuated units of winning after three tries.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

In the Kursk scenario, I'm able to take the NW objective pretty easily, but then I get attacked by a very large force from the NE of my position.
If I start with units east across the river, I'm attacked by a large force from the north. I have even setup and stayed west of the river and used a bridge engineer to cross parallel to the air field midmap, but my units crossing are overwhelmed by yet another large force before they can establish a bridgehead. When my main force reached the center of the map, I saw that the remaining objectives were defended by heavy entrenchments and many units. I still needed to take three or four objectives. So I quit out of frustration.

The West scenario I mean may not be called Syracuse. It's the one where I have to evacuate 18 units to the mainland from Sicily. I can't use too many air units because they count toward my force limit and I don't have many ground units over 18. I did come within three or four evacuated units of winning after three tries.

IIRC in Kursk there are big concentrations of forces near the main VPs. You are going to hit the big groups no matter where to go but if you advance steadily you will be able to beat them each pretty fast. You should gain air control pretty quick. If you have decent Tac this is a good scenario to use them in. Strats can also be put to good use. This is also a good scenario to go Eng heavy if you have them.

In the North I try to breach a 5-6 hex opening with Art, Eng and Inf including the bridge then move armor through to form a perimeter. I don't usually attack with the armor up there on the first turn unless it is to kill a unit or I find a good target of opportunity. The idea is to position forces to gain maneuver room then next turn. The next few turns are spent breaking open the front and getting ready to split my forces and eliminating every armor I can in the center of the map. I try to stay concentrated in the center until it is pretty cleared out.

The Russians won't usually move Inf out of their trenches so you can ignore them, just don't give them a target of opportunity, like Art or they will come out. Just punch a hole in the line and move through, don't try to kill all the Inf in the trenches.

In the South I go through the trench line and woods then capture the bridge. It takes a few turns. Then take the city and air field and I split my forces, one N'ish and the other W'ish. If I am very successful with the group going N or the North front does well I will sometimes bring units back S through the start area and try to get some units across the river near the VP and not slog through the entrenchments. The VP in the SW near the river is almost always the last one I get and it's always near the last turn.

It helps if you have a few Panthers for this one. They move fast, have a good number of shots and can take out any of the Russian tanks. Elephants are tempting but slow and only have a few shots but if you have AT in your core you may want to upgrade a few. I have ever only had 1-2 of them in my core.

[Zovs]

I played the original PG games way back in the old DOS days, don't know if that is an edge or not. But Over the last few years I purchased PC, all the DLC's, AK and the new AG and have it all running with the latest updates.

Since I only 'tinker' with it, I play on Col., but I dont' have the problems you describe. My strategies are basically to use my fighters to take out the AI's fighters first, and then go after his FB. I use my artillery to soften up and remove his fort levels and then I use engineers if I have them (or purchase at least one) and infantry backed by artillery to take out enemy strong points. You have to use tanks to take out artillery and sometimes his AAA, but Infantry does better on taking out his AAA. You have to have that support going (art, infy, tanks, air) sometimes in or near the same hexes to have support. Then you can take out positions and move on, all at the same time as moving as quickly as possible.

[joe6778]

I, too, have been playing PzG and PzC for many years.

I don't know what you mean that you're not having the same "problems that I describe". What I'm saying is that tactics can only go so far in this game when you go up against forces two or three times as large as yours.

I play on Colonel mostly, and I'm overwhelmed by enemy units starting in '43. I have no way to upload the battlefield to describe what I mean, but after three tries on Kursk, I'm getting decimated again- I lost three core units including a SE unit, and haven't even taken an objective yet. I surrendered to see what enemy forces were left, and the number of units I'm up against is laughable.

I've been trying to follow the advice I've received here and other sites, but I'm slowly losing interest in continuing the DLC Grand Campaign. It's too frustrating and I obviously suck at it.

I like a challenging game otherwise I can quickly lose interest and become bored. But I also hate the feeling that it's a lost cause and a waste of my time.

I would rather the scenarios represented more evenly matched battles instead of well known German debacles like Kursk and Stalingrad, because even if you achieve a DV, the course of the war for Germany isn't affected.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

I, too, have been playing PzG and PzC for many years.

I don't know what you mean that you're not having the same "problems that I describe". What I'm saying is that tactics can only go so far in this game when you go up against forces two or three times as large as yours.

I play on Colonel mostly, and I'm overwhelmed by enemy units starting in '43. I have no way to upload the battlefield to describe what I mean, but after three tries on Kursk, I'm getting decimated again- I lost three core units including a SE unit, and haven't even taken an objective yet. I surrendered to see what enemy forces were left, and the number of units I'm up against is laughable.

I've been trying to follow the advice I've received here and other sites, but I'm slowly losing interest in continuing the DLC Grand Campaign. It's too frustrating and I obviously suck at it.

I like a challenging game otherwise I can quickly lose interest and become bored. But I also hate the feeling that it's a lost cause and a waste of my time.

I would rather the scenarios represented more evenly matched battles instead of well known German debacles like Kursk and Stalingrad, because even if you achieve a DV, the course of the war for Germany isn't affected.

The DLC's are much different than the standard campaign so some of the techniques that work in the standard campaign do work quite as well with the DLC campaigns. The basic principals hold but you usually have a larger core and the enemy has WAY more units than the standard campaign.

I have only played the East Front DLC's to completion on Colonel and General but could not make it through at any higher level. While I got through them it was much harder and there were some battles that I am not sure I would have won if I had immediately played them over, I had good fortune in them.

The DLC's either can be won on the higher levels or there are a LOT of BS'ers, which I find unlikely. I am not one of them but I do believe it is possible so don't give up.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: joe6778

I, too, have been playing PzG and PzC for many years.

I don't know what you mean that you're not having the same "problems that I describe". What I'm saying is that tactics can only go so far in this game when you go up against forces two or three times as large as yours.

I play on Colonel mostly, and I'm overwhelmed by enemy units starting in '43. I have no way to upload the battlefield to describe what I mean, but after three tries on Kursk, I'm getting decimated again- I lost three core units including a SE unit, and haven't even taken an objective yet. I surrendered to see what enemy forces were left, and the number of units I'm up against is laughable.

I've been trying to follow the advice I've received here and other sites, but I'm slowly losing interest in continuing the DLC Grand Campaign. It's too frustrating and I obviously suck at it.

I like a challenging game otherwise I can quickly lose interest and become bored. But I also hate the feeling that it's a lost cause and a waste of my time.

I would rather the scenarios represented more evenly matched battles instead of well known German debacles like Kursk and Stalingrad, because even if you achieve a DV, the course of the war for Germany isn't affected.

Have you checked the forums over at Slitherine for tips? It is a lot more active than the Matrix forums for Panzer Corp with lots of advice and AAR's.

[rodney727]

Now you know how the Germans felt. They never Ever held the advantage that the Russians had in Ww2. It was never an even match. This is why I love this game. It's using your forces better than the AI, it can be done. Even in the original PG it took me several tries to beat at the highest levels but I did it. Become the general and lead your units and don't let your units lead you.

ORIGINAL: joe6778

I, too, have been playing PzG and PzC for many years.

I don't know what you mean that you're not having the same "problems that I describe". What I'm saying is that tactics can only go so far in this game when you go up against forces two or three times as large as yours.

I play on Colonel mostly, and I'm overwhelmed by enemy units starting in '43. I have no way to upload the battlefield to describe what I mean, but after three tries on Kursk, I'm getting decimated again- I lost three core units including a SE unit, and haven't even taken an objective yet. I surrendered to see what enemy forces were left, and the number of units I'm up against is laughable.

I've been trying to follow the advice I've received here and other sites, but I'm slowly losing interest in continuing the DLC Grand Campaign. It's too frustrating and I obviously suck at it.

I like a challenging game otherwise I can quickly lose interest and become bored. But I also hate the feeling that it's a lost cause and a waste of my time.

I would rather the scenarios represented more evenly matched battles instead of well known German debacles like Kursk and Stalingrad, because even if you achieve a DV, the course of the war for Germany isn't affected.

[joe6778]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

ORIGINAL: joe6778

I, too, have been playing PzG and PzC for many years.

I don't know what you mean that you're not having the same "problems that I describe". What I'm saying is that tactics can only go so far in this game when you go up against forces two or three times as large as yours.

I play on Colonel mostly, and I'm overwhelmed by enemy units starting in '43. I have no way to upload the battlefield to describe what I mean, but after three tries on Kursk, I'm getting decimated again- I lost three core units including a SE unit, and haven't even taken an objective yet. I surrendered to see what enemy forces were left, and the number of units I'm up against is laughable.

I've been trying to follow the advice I've received here and other sites, but I'm slowly losing interest in continuing the DLC Grand Campaign. It's too frustrating and I obviously suck at it.

I like a challenging game otherwise I can quickly lose interest and become bored. But I also hate the feeling that it's a lost cause and a waste of my time.

I would rather the scenarios represented more evenly matched battles instead of well known German debacles like Kursk and Stalingrad, because even if you achieve a DV, the course of the war for Germany isn't affected.

The DLC's are much different than the standard campaign so some of the techniques that work in the standard campaign do work quite as well with the DLC campaigns. The basic principals hold but you usually have a larger core and the enemy has WAY more units than the standard campaign.

I have only played the East Front DLC's to completion on Colonel and General but could not make it through at any higher level. While I got through them it was much harder and there were some battles that I am not sure I would have won if I had immediately played them over, I had good fortune in them.

The DLC's either can be won on the higher levels or there are a LOT of BS'ers, which I find unlikely. I am not one of them but I do believe it is possible so don't give up.

I've beaten vanilla PzC a couple of times on Colonel. I thought the original game was too short. My complaint is with DLC Grand Campaign after '42.

Obviously, the Grand Campaign follows history pretty well- the Germans lost the war. But I don't want to be thrown into situations that are frustrating or hopeless- what's the fun in that? If there's a legitimate way to win, I would like to pursue it.

It's just that it's eluding me so far, and I can't believe it's possible to win on higher levels; that's the jist of this thread. I'll have to check out the AARs to see how it's done.

Otherwise I may have to play on a lower difficulty, which feels like cheating.

[joe6778]

I tried Kursk again. I mainly worked my way up the eastern river and took the two objectives: the NE city east of the river and the city west of there. Then I swung around to the west to take the airfield objective, but by then I only had a couple of turns left.

I wish I had a tally of the planes I shot down, but they still kept coming. There must have been a total of 30 enemy planes altogether.

Anyway, it ended up as a loss.

I hate this @#$%^& Campaign. [:@]