Size Matters

[kool_kat]

Hey Berto and the JTCS Community: [8D]

IMHO, it's time to stop adding more "gasoline" to the "Size Matters" fire.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions? [&:]

Let's stop ridiculing both players and game developers who have different viewpoints here and at the Blitz on the bottom icon menu.

I've stated my view of the icon menu on the Blitz Forums. I also appreciate Berto's response and indication of a future icon button size toggle. Thank you for responding to this concern! [:)]

In the end, it really does not matter which side can make the most posts or marshal the most evidence to drive home their points. Why? Because, while we are all getting worked up, we are losing sight of the bigger picture here.

JTCS v2.0 represents the most significant development and investment into the CS game platform in the past 5+ years! Berto and the Matrix Team have breathed new life into an ageless and classic game system... and I am grateful for all the dedication, and hard work that has made JTCS v2.0 possible! So, a hearty and sincere "THANK YOU VERY MUCH" from a "middle-aged" gamer who first cut his teeth on East Front II way back in 1998! Looking forward to enjoying many hours with the "new gal"! [;)]

But, I have a growing concern that this "Size Matters" disagreement may mushroom into another EA no holds barred fight that will only serve to divide the JTCS Community. And that would be a real shame and pity. [:(]

Berto and the other development folks have shown a willingness to listen and respond to players' input. There's been a LOT of civil and constructive dialogue between Matrix and players. That's a good thing and bodes well for the JTCS Community going forward. Maybe a little less criticism and a little more applause are in order? Just a thought.

So, for me. I've said my piece. I plan to do more playing... and less posting! [;)]

[R_TEAM]

Hi,

mmhhh ... what can i say .... both sides have not at all bad arguments ....
I would for the side who say "the icons are to small" not only say "i dont need ANY change on my all time favorite game ....." is the only point, but an not small maybe ....
But it is an valid point too - that the icons are getting realy tiny on nowdays screen sizes - and IF you have an Game from 2000 - who was programmed with an very small variance in the screen size (and 1280H was this time "enourmous"...) and make the even small (again - on nowdays screen sizes) icons - much smaler .... you should not surprised if this get a little rant ....

And yes - it is no secret that popular old games availabe to buy, that have an very tiny UI for nowdays screen sizes.
But the diff is - this games have (IMHO) from the beginning so tiny sizes - so what would the point here to complain ?
Complain over the developer from the past , decades ago , that he not see in the future screens with 1900+ hight ... ??

So i musst say - i see here an valid point - for me not so big - but for other maybe ....

The solution ..... mmmhhhh ... sorry - it is no "easy" fast solution available ...
The "best" would be an full sizable GUI (mostly done as OpenGL overlay or DirectX if you get no value on portability...) who no one can complain, as every user can now have all pices of the UI on the size HE want .... but this come an complete new engine realy close - so it is unlikely this will ever happen ...

An solution i found "doable" is an more intelligent Ui - who only display the icons that make "sense" with the actual selected unit(s) - besides an basis set of every time visible icons ...

I hope my long text is not to horrible (english is not my native language ..)

Regards
R-TEAM

[berto]

[:D]

[junk2drive]

Amazing what you can do.

I'll stick with the new one.

[LoneWulf63]

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

There are a few old ladies around that have a meltdown every time there has been a change from the Talonsoft version of the game. Don't let them get you down or let them get under your skin. Some people don't/won't visit this forum until the changes come and some won't leave the blitz. Although you pre posted this over there too.

Oh well, they can keep at 1.00 or 02 or 03 or 04 or TS.

Let's move on please.

Junk. Screw you. You condescending piece of crap.

Yes, Berto the buttons are too small. There were those that stated early on that you do not need every hot key button on the lower tool bar. But, you put them there anyway and accused the players of wanting it all.
Lose have the buttons and don't force players to have to look at the eye exploding tiny ones you put there.
Please, also be less smug. We are customers. Don't piss off the customers.

RR

I have told my friends on the Dev Team that I would no longer post any comments on the public MCS forums. However, the more I have thought about what you said to Junk and how you attack others, the more peeved I get. So without further ado, let me say this. Mr. RR, do you think that the forum rules don't apply to you? I think you do. Did Junk insult you directly? No, he did not. How many hours of research, bug fixing, program editing, graphic design or OOB/Map/Scenario design have you contributed to these games? None, from what I can tell. Remember this. These updates/patches/games are being developed for the many not the few like you. If you don't like the new patch (which is FREE), don't use it. Do us all a favor. Go back over to the Blitz and stay there. And btw, I don't give a tinker's damn if you respond to this post or what you think about me or anyone else for that matter. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[berto]

Yes, believe it or not, somebody asked for this too!



[:D] [:D]

[LoneWulf63]

I wonder who?

[berto]

A veteran player who has memorized the hot keys, has no use for the toolbar, and would appreciate a larger map space.

We Aim to Please! [:)]

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: resinslinger

ORIGINAL: MrRoadrunner

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

There are a few old ladies around that have a meltdown every time there has been a change from the Talonsoft version of the game. Don't let them get you down or let them get under your skin. Some people don't/won't visit this forum until the changes come and some won't leave the blitz. Although you pre posted this over there too.

Oh well, they can keep at 1.00 or 02 or 03 or 04 or TS.

Let's move on please.

Junk. Screw you. You condescending piece of crap.

Yes, Berto the buttons are too small. There were those that stated early on that you do not need every hot key button on the lower tool bar. But, you put them there anyway and accused the players of wanting it all.
Lose have the buttons and don't force players to have to look at the eye exploding tiny ones you put there.
Please, also be less smug. We are customers. Don't piss off the customers.

RR

I have told my friends on the Dev Team that I would no longer post any comments on the public MCS forums. However, the more I have thought about what you said to Junk and how you attack others, the more peeved I get. So without further ado, let me say this. Mr. RR, do you think that the forum rules don't apply to you? I think you do. Did Junk insult you directly? No, he did not. How many hours of research, bug fixing, program editing, graphic design or OOB/Map/Scenario design have you contributed to these games? None, from what I can tell. Remember this. These updates/patches/games are being developed for the many not the few like you. If you don't like the new patch (which is FREE), don't use it. Do us all a favor. Go back over to the Blitz and stay there. And btw, I don't give a tinker's damn if you respond to this post or what you think about me or anyone else for that matter. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

You can all get in a circle and do what you have to do.
I am a customer. My product was changed.
I expressed my viewpoint and was ridiculed. Anyone selling a product to a customer at least needs to show some respect to that customer.

You want both worlds?

You can blow your opinion out your arse for all I care. In the end you are, and always state, (you are) a member of the team.

I could care less whether you wish to respond or not. You do not want debate you want to belittle and dictate. You and your little buddies (especially your cowardly friend Huib) can stuff your comments and "+'s" where the sun don't shine.

Did you ever think that the changes would not be "accepted" and there would be push back?
As designers and developers, members of team, it should be up to you to bite your tongues and fix the problems, or ignore things and move on.

Get in my face you will get push back from me. I have that right to expression.

And, to all, I know the consequences of my words within the rules of the forum. I am willing to express myself bluntly and directly with those rules in mind.
You should take care to be cognoscente of your words too?

RR

[junk2drive]

Spending $35 in 2007 doesn't pay the light bill today. Customers are those that spent money recently for a product that they have the right to expect it to work as described on the product page. Seven years later a free update doesn't suit you then don't install it and move on.

[noissy]

No complaints over at the Wargamers Club for Gentlemen.
Yeah the icons are something you need to check out and
get familiar with but, no big deal. I applaud the developers
of the new patch for their' time and efforts and personally,
(it doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet) I look forward
to seeing how the A1 works now. (It could be useful whilst awaiting turns).
Anyway, the patch is free, the work has been done by a dedicated bunch of
guys, plenty of chances for players to put up their input whilst it was under
development so, forget the insults guys, you did a great job!
I guess some guys will never change with their insulting manners, just ignore
them and their comments. - The reason the Wargamers Club for Gentlemen was set up
and doesn't tolerate such behaviour. Forgive the plug but, there are alternative
places to play your games and enjoy polite discussion!

[Crossroads]

Cheers Peter,

Good to hear things are going well with your wargaming club, and thanks for your thanks too!

[noissy]

Cheers! Some scoffed when I set the club up but, three years later,
still going strong.
Anyway, yeah, the patch is welcome and look forward to getting to grips
with the changes. Well done guys for breathing new life into the game.
Onwards and upwards !!!

[berto]

Still more...

One instance of EF, with the new Large Toolbar, superimposed on another instance of EF, with the Standard Toolbar. Screen resolution is 1920x1080.



You look at that, and you might think: Always favor the Large Toolbar! Why bother with Standard?

Here's why (toolbar button graphics have since changed slightly from what you see below in the next two screenshots):

ORIGINAL: berto

ORIGINAL: berto

So why would anybody choose the Standard Toolbar? Again, with lower res monitors (and as we add new buttons in future), there is a greater likelihood of ugly toolbar auto-wrap.

Here is a screenshot of the new engine EXE, with Large Toolbar, on my maxed-out 1280x1024 Windows 8.1 display:



By contrast, the Standard Toolbar fits nicely in the horizontal display space, without auto-wrap.

A good number of players still have max resolution of 1280x1024 or less. I could see not a few of them opting for the Standard Toolbar -- which at 1280x1024 looks very nice indeed, not small at all.

Remember: The auto-wrap problem will only get worse, as more buttons are added to future toolbars for future games.

ORIGINAL: berto

Here is the same setup, maxed-out 1280x1024 res on Windows 8.1, but with the Standard Toolbar:



The buttons are nicely sized, not too small at all. IMO.

The first screen shot above is close to the final product, but further tweaks are possible.

If you think the so-called "Large Toolbar" is still too small, well ... try the Classic Toolbar if you prefer.

So how soon will we make this all available? Soon, as in: within a very few weeks. At least that is our hope.

[junk2drive]

Actually I would rather have the large ones with two rows.

And hotkeys 6 7 8 9 or 7 8 9 0 so that I can turn them on and off maybe.

[tide1530]

I like them Berto. They work for me.

[BadElvin]

Sales and revenue at Matrix Games must be outpacing the rest of the economy, granted the small icons don't bother me, but I cannot see where Matrix can afford to piss-off a group of loyal and dedicated customers. Take their suggestions and be polite but do not degrade or belittle their opinions. Customers may not always be right but they are customers.

[e_barkmann]

good job Berto

cheers

[MrRoadrunner]

ORIGINAL: noissy
No complaints over at the Wargamers Club for Gentlemen.
- The reason the Wargamers Club for Gentlemen was set up
and doesn't tolerate such behaviour. Forgive the plug but, there are alternative
places to play your games and enjoy polite discussion!

Peter, it is good to see your club is doing well.

Have you ever seen the movie Demolition Man? This line applies, in many ways; "Be Well".

RR

[Arkady]

Berto [&o]