1.4.2 PATCH

[operating]

Orm says;
Gas not yet used in our game.

I play the Entente in this game and I consider Bulgaria not entering the war as a game-breaker. No fun at all. When I noticed it I considered surrendering at once. Only reason I didn't is because I plan to DOW Bulgaria instead. I just hope that the penalty for that is not to great.

_____________________________

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment."

If I am reading this right: "The winning side wants to surrender"[&:]??? Sounds like Bulgaria has seen enough not to want getting pressed into a meat grinder. If your desire is to be a "Good Sport", I doubt there is a penalty for Declaring War on Bulgaria, also, it might not effect Italy, Romania or Portugal from entering. The only way to know for sure is to play (experiment) it out in SP. It's the maddening thing about MP not having saved games, however, that is for everyone's protection (tendency for some to go over to the Dark Side).

As to Warspite's question: I have to wonder if his NM has a correlation to Bulgaria's status. Hopefully a moderator, like Johnny Bravo speaks up on this, while Kirk is on Vacation.

<edit>

In my SP 1914 scenario, it's May 1915 Italy has just entered. Declared war on Bulgaria, saw no penalties diplomatically

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: operating

Orm says;
Gas not yet used in our game.

I play the Entente in this game and I consider Bulgaria not entering the war as a game-breaker. No fun at all. When I noticed it I considered surrendering at once. Only reason I didn't is because I plan to DOW Bulgaria instead. I just hope that the penalty for that is not to great.

_____________________________

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment."

If I am reading this right: "The winning side wants to surrender"[&:]??? Sounds like Bulgaria has seen enough not to want getting pressed into a meat grinder. If your desire is to be a "Good Sport", I doubt there is a penalty for Declaring War on Bulgaria, also, it might not effect Italy, Romania or Portugal from entering. The only way to know for sure is to play (experiment) it out in SP. It's the maddening thing about MP not having saved games, however, that is for everyone's protection (tendency for some to go over to the Dark Side).

As to Warspite's question: I have to wonder if his NM has a correlation to Bulgaria's status. Hopefully a moderator, like Johnny Bravo speaks up on this, while Kirk is on Vacation.

warspite1

Operating the point I am trying to make is, I don't care what the reason is, and I certainly don't care if its lack of NM. I think the concept is wrong.

Let's say that is the reason.

The game is barely 4 months old - its early in the new year 1915. If the German NM affects Bulgaria then what the games designers are saying is - if ever the Germans get a bad start - quit playing. As I say, where is the fun trying to turn around a difficult game?

If it is the use of Poison Gas then how does that work? So In order to delay Italy and get Bulgaria, Germany does not research a key technology? And what is the quid pro quo i.e. what persuades the Allies that they should not want to research poison gas or do they get that "gratis"?

Thanks for your help in clarifying.

[Orm]

What does NM mean?

----

I have done slightly better than historically. Russia launched a a strong offence towards Königsberg and managed to capture the city before the German reinforcements arrived. Other than that I think the lines are close to historical. Germany have launched a counter offence and they will soon liberate Königsberg.

Germany were historically prepared to lose this region to Russia in order to succeed versus the attack on France. I doubt that losing this city would have affected the Bulgarian position historically.

And in the game it certainly should not. Capture Konigsberg and win the game would be the result if this is the case. I consider Bulgaria cancelling the countdown a game breaking bug taking the fun out of the game. Thankfully I can get around it by declaring war on Bulgaria around the date that they would have entered the war.

Note that I am not sure that Königsberg is the reason for that the countdown stopped. I actually doubt it because the countdown for Bulgaria continued even after Königsberg was captured. But it is the only thing that I can think of because other than that the game follows history fairly close.

I want to win on the battlefield. Not by capturing a city that I can't hold!

[operating]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: operating

Orm says;
Gas not yet used in our game.

I play the Entente in this game and I consider Bulgaria not entering the war as a game-breaker. No fun at all. When I noticed it I considered surrendering at once. Only reason I didn't is because I plan to DOW Bulgaria instead. I just hope that the penalty for that is not to great.

_____________________________

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment."

If I am reading this right: "The winning side wants to surrender"[&:]??? Sounds like Bulgaria has seen enough not to want getting pressed into a meat grinder. If your desire is to be a "Good Sport", I doubt there is a penalty for Declaring War on Bulgaria, also, it might not effect Italy, Romania or Portugal from entering. The only way to know for sure is to play (experiment) it out in SP. It's the maddening thing about MP not having saved games, however, that is for everyone's protection (tendency for some to go over to the Dark Side).

As to Warspite's question: I have to wonder if his NM has a correlation to Bulgaria's status. Hopefully a moderator, like Johnny Bravo speaks up on this, while Kirk is on Vacation.

warspite1

Operating the point I am trying to make is, I don't care what the reason is, and I certainly don't care if its lack of NM. I think the concept is wrong.

Let's say that is the reason.

The game is barely 4 months old - its early in the new year 1915. If the German NM affects Bulgaria then what the games designers are saying is - if ever the Germans get a bad start - quit playing. As I say, where is the fun trying to turn around a difficult game?

If it is the use of Poison Gas then how does that work? So In order to delay Italy and get Bulgaria, Germany does not research a key technology? And what is the quid pro quo i.e. what persuades the Allies that they should not want to research poison gas or do they get that "gratis"?

Thanks for your help in clarifying.

In SP I do delay upgrading to poison gas, letting the AI use it first, every time I use it first, Italy enters sooner (as well as Romania and Portugal) and I believe Bulgaria stalls. Historically, I don't know the answer, I just know the repercussions in the game. There must of been research done to justify in game effects.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: operating

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: operating


If I am reading this right: "The winning side wants to surrender"[&:]??? Sounds like Bulgaria has seen enough not to want getting pressed into a meat grinder. If your desire is to be a "Good Sport", I doubt there is a penalty for Declaring War on Bulgaria, also, it might not effect Italy, Romania or Portugal from entering. The only way to know for sure is to play (experiment) it out in SP. It's the maddening thing about MP not having saved games, however, that is for everyone's protection (tendency for some to go over to the Dark Side).

As to Warspite's question: I have to wonder if his NM has a correlation to Bulgaria's status. Hopefully a moderator, like Johnny Bravo speaks up on this, while Kirk is on Vacation.

warspite1

Operating the point I am trying to make is, I don't care what the reason is, and I certainly don't care if its lack of NM. I think the concept is wrong.

Let's say that is the reason.

The game is barely 4 months old - its early in the new year 1915. If the German NM affects Bulgaria then what the games designers are saying is - if ever the Germans get a bad start - quit playing. As I say, where is the fun trying to turn around a difficult game?

If it is the use of Poison Gas then how does that work? So In order to delay Italy and get Bulgaria, Germany does not research a key technology? And what is the quid pro quo i.e. what persuades the Allies that they should not want to research poison gas or do they get that "gratis"?

Thanks for your help in clarifying.

In SP I do delay upgrading to poison gas, letting the AI use it first, every time I use it first, Italy enters sooner (as well as Romania and Portugal) and I believe Bulgaria stalls. Historically, I don't know the answer, I just know the repercussions in the game. There must of been research done to justify in game effects.

The effects of using gas first is interesting but has no relevance in regards of Bulgaria since poison gas has not been used in our game.

[operating]

NM; National Morale, check it out on Management window. A combination of troop (MP) loss, cities won/loss, and opponent/ally surrenders, naval win/losses (especially BBs). Not sure if CP recaptures Koenisburg if it will restore NM %ages, however, Entente will lose NM % when it happens (I'm pretty sure about that).

[operating]

If it is the use of Poison Gas then how does that work? So In order to delay Italy and get Bulgaria, Germany does not research a key technology? And what is the quid pro quo i.e. what persuades the Allies that they should not want to research poison gas or do they get that "gratis"?

No, You continue to research artillery, let it progress in every category, except RR gun (which is lame). Wait for the opportunity after the other side makes a mistake using poison gas before upgrading. OK, you do take some initial losses, getting up to speed, but you win diplomatically.

[operating]

Warspite says
The game is barely 4 months old - its early in the new year 1915. If the German NM affects Bulgaria then what the games designers are saying is - if ever the Germans get a bad start - quit playing. As I say, where is the fun trying to turn around a difficult game?

If it is the use of Poison Gas then how does that work? So In order to delay Italy and get Bulgaria, Germany does not research a key technology? And what is the quid pro quo i.e. what persuades the Allies that they should not want to research poison gas or do they get that "gratis"?

Thanks for your help in clarifying.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.

This is the diplomat picture end of my turn 26.

[operating]

AI uses poison gas turn 26.

[operating]

Turn 27: Romania and Portugal appear in the diplomatic window on the march to war at 20+, instead of 25+, more than likely because of AI's use of poison gas, the same would hold true for an MP match.

<edit>
I would have done a better post if I knew how to get more than 1 SS in a post.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: operating

If it is the use of Poison Gas then how does that work? So In order to delay Italy and get Bulgaria, Germany does not research a key technology? And what is the quid pro quo i.e. what persuades the Allies that they should not want to research poison gas or do they get that "gratis"?

No, You continue to research artillery, let it progress in every category, except RR gun (which is lame). Wait for the opportunity after the other side makes a mistake using poison gas before upgrading. OK, you do take some initial losses, getting up to speed, but you win diplomatically.

warspite1

So in WWI Bulgaria joined the war on the side of the Central Powers after the Germans first used Chlorine gas, they joined the war after the Schliefffen Plan had gone wrong and the Germans were stalled in the west, they joined after the Austro-Hungarians had made a total mess of the war. But this is ignored and once again, CTGW is mucking about with Bulgarian entry?

Sorry but to me this makes no sense.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: operating

Warspite says
The game is barely 4 months old - its early in the new year 1915. If the German NM affects Bulgaria then what the games designers are saying is - if ever the Germans get a bad start - quit playing. As I say, where is the fun trying to turn around a difficult game?

If it is the use of Poison Gas then how does that work? So In order to delay Italy and get Bulgaria, Germany does not research a key technology? And what is the quid pro quo i.e. what persuades the Allies that they should not want to research poison gas or do they get that "gratis"?

Thanks for your help in clarifying.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.

This is the diplomat picture end of my turn 26.

And the Bulgarian entry into the war had been halted a long time ago in this game!

Edit: And this was long before poison gas was used!!!

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: operating

If it is the use of Poison Gas then how does that work? So In order to delay Italy and get Bulgaria, Germany does not research a key technology? And what is the quid pro quo i.e. what persuades the Allies that they should not want to research poison gas or do they get that "gratis"?

No, You continue to research artillery, let it progress in every category, except RR gun (which is lame). Wait for the opportunity after the other side makes a mistake using poison gas before upgrading. OK, you do take some initial losses, getting up to speed, but you win diplomatically.

warspite1

So in WWI Bulgaria joined the war on the side of the Central Powers after the Germans first used Chlorine gas, they joined the war after the Schliefffen Plan had gone wrong and the Germans were stalled in the west, they joined after the Austro-Hungarians had made a total mess of the war. But this is ignored and once again, CTGW is mucking about with Bulgarian entry?

Sorry but to me this makes no sense.

It, sadly, makes sense. The game is broken. Bulgarian entry is bugged. To me this game is now unplayable.

[operating]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: operating



No, You continue to research artillery, let it progress in every category, except RR gun (which is lame). Wait for the opportunity after the other side makes a mistake using poison gas before upgrading. OK, you do take some initial losses, getting up to speed, but you win diplomatically.

warspite1

So in WWI Bulgaria joined the war on the side of the Central Powers after the Germans first used Chlorine gas, they joined the war after the Schliefffen Plan had gone wrong and the Germans were stalled in the west, they joined after the Austro-Hungarians had made a total mess of the war. But this is ignored and once again, CTGW is mucking about with Bulgarian entry?

Sorry but to me this makes no sense.

It, sadly, makes sense. The game is broken. Bulgarian entry is bugged. To me this game is now unplayable.

The diplomatic picture resets, when each side receives surrenders. Bulgaria goes on the march to war when Serbia surrenders and , or when Serbia and Italy surrenders and don't forget usually by this time Belgium has surrendered. Looking at Orm's SS, CP has not accomplished a whole heck of a lot, which does not make it very enticing for a potential ally. Don't forget; that Bulgaria's PP is about 4-8, with 1 RR. Have not played MP in some time, where the dynamics are so different from SP, so I have to wonder if the goal posts could be changed for an MP match that runs on SP thinking?

[warspite1]

Such a shame. When this game came out it was a little revelation. Yes the treatment of the naval war was pretty poor and there were one or two things that needed amending - e.g. it was impossible to have the US enter, but overall, the game was stable, relatively bug-free and bags of fun. With some work it could only get better.... or so I thought.

What on earth has happened? There was the total disaster of Russia going into melt down if the Germans said Boo! and Romania not coming into the war as a result. Then it was decided that Bulgaria should never come into the war, and now that has been revised and she can come in, provided the Germans don't get a bad start or research advanced technology to help them get over the bad start??

Oh well. Time to put away again. At least I had my monies worth in the first six months of its release.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: operating

The diplomatic picture resets, when each side receives surrenders. Bulgaria goes on the march to war when Serbia surrenders and , or when Serbia and Italy surrenders and don't forget usually by this time Belgium has surrendered. Looking at Orm's SS, CP has not accomplished a whole heck of a lot, which does not make it very enticing for a potential ally. Don't forget; that Bulgaria's PP is about 4-8, with 1 RR. Have not played MP in some time, where the dynamics are so different from SP, so I have to wonder if the goal posts could be changed for an MP match that runs on SP thinking?

Neither Belgium, Italy nor Serbia had surrendered, historically, when Bulgaria entered the war.

CP in my game is very close to the historical success of the Central Powers.

So at this point I agree with Warspite1; "Oh well. Time to put away again".

[operating]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Such a shame. When this game came out it was a little revelation. Yes the treatment of the naval war was pretty poor and there were one or two things that needed amending - e.g. it was impossible to have the US enter, but overall, the game was stable, relatively bug-free and bags of fun. With some work it could only get better.... or so I thought.

What on earth has happened? There was the total disaster of Russia going into melt down if the Germans said Boo! and Romania not coming into the war as a result. Then it was decided that Bulgaria should never come into the war, and now that has been revised and she can come in, provided the Germans don't get a bad start or research advanced technology to help them get over the bad start??

Oh well. Time to put away again. At least I had my monies worth in the first six months of its release.

Have you swapped sides with Orm, and received the same results?

[operating]

Orm says;
Neither Belgium, Italy nor Serbia had surrendered, historically, when Bulgaria entered the war.

CP in my game is very close to the historical success of the Central Powers.

I find your revelation very interesting, I hope the Powers to be, take note of this.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: operating

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Such a shame. When this game came out it was a little revelation. Yes the treatment of the naval war was pretty poor and there were one or two things that needed amending - e.g. it was impossible to have the US enter, but overall, the game was stable, relatively bug-free and bags of fun. With some work it could only get better.... or so I thought.

What on earth has happened? There was the total disaster of Russia going into melt down if the Germans said Boo! and Romania not coming into the war as a result. Then it was decided that Bulgaria should never come into the war, and now that has been revised and she can come in, provided the Germans don't get a bad start or research advanced technology to help them get over the bad start??

Oh well. Time to put away again. At least I had my monies worth in the first six months of its release.

Have you swapped sides with Orm, and received the same results?

warspite1

In our other game, where I am the Entente, the Germans are doing better then historically - holding a line north of Paris, pushing into Russia and have broken the Serbian front line.

In this instance Bulgaria is on track to come into the game - as expected.

[operating]

warspite1

In our other game, where I am the Entente, the Germans are doing better then historically - holding a line north of Paris, pushing into Russia and have broken the Serbian front line.

In this instance Bulgaria is on track to come into the game - as expected.

Can you remember how Italy and others were reacting to these events? Historically and in game, Italy enters May 1915 (which you already knew). Unless there are influences to alter that. Italy was reluctant to join a war against it's former Allies. Do you have any suggestions on the diplomatic picture about the game?