GJ (Allies) - Mr.Kane (Japan) - The allies declare their defeat

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Yeah, I just watched a show in which pilots described the P-51D as "the perfect plane." I also remember a documentary on modern air racing and one of the most common planes used in racing is a restored P-51 due to its excellent combo of speed and maneuverability. By all accounts it was the ultimate air superiority fighter of the pre-jet age.

GJ, have you tried a game with Symon's air mod yet? I hear good things but haven't tried it myself yet.

Hi Crib,

yes, we did try it during the first couple of months of 1944... to be honest I was the one who asked for a re-change back to stock data.
With Symon's air mod, his N1K2 and J2M3 were fast as hell, comparable to the KI-84r... faster than anything the allied had but the P-47D...which meant that I was being swept to oblivion, not only by Franks (remember we were back in early 1944, when the KI-83 wasn't online yet) but also by hordes of Georges and Jacks... who touched the speed of 404 mhp...

This is an example.
My pilots are crack ones (in allied standards): exp avg is 70+.
Layered CAP. 1944 allied Radar. Weather good.

Morning Air attack on Sabang , at 44,70

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 49 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 45

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 54
P-38F Lightning x 21
P-38H Lightning x 41
P-40K Warhawk x 41
P-40N5 Warhawk x 83
P-40N26 Warhawk x 13
F4U-1 Corsair x 15
F6F-3 Hellcat x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 2 destroyed
P-38F Lightning: 3 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 9 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 7 destroyed
P-40N26 Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
22 x N1K2-J George sweeping at 20000 feet *

CAP engaged:
VMF-222 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 22000 and 24000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
VMF-311 with F4U-1 Corsair (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
No.81 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 36770 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 36000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
No.152 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 36770 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
No.155 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 36770 , scrambling fighters between 19000 and 24000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
No.615 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 36770 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
20th TRS with P-40N26 Warhawk (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
8th FG/35th FS with P-38F Lightning (0 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 34500 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 34500.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
8th FG/36th FS with P-38H Lightning (0 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 35440 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 35440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
23rd FG/74th FS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 17 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
80th FG/88th FS with P-40K Warhawk (0 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 24000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
80th FG/89th FS with P-40K Warhawk (0 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
80th FG/90th FS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 16 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
348th FG/341st FS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
80th FG/459th FS with P-38H Lightning (0 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 35440 , scrambling fighters between 21000 and 35440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
311th FBG/528th FBS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 15 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Sabang , at 44,70

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 18 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 45

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 50
P-38F Lightning x 17
P-38H Lightning x 41
P-40K Warhawk x 27
P-40N5 Warhawk x 71
P-40N26 Warhawk x 12
F4U-1 Corsair x 12
F6F-3 Hellcat x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38H Lightning: 2 destroyed
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40N26 Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x N1K2-J George sweeping at 20000 feet *

CAP engaged:
VMF-222 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 17000 and 21260.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
VMF-311 with F4U-1 Corsair (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 19307.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
No.81 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 36770 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 14 minutes
No.152 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 7 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 36770 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
No.155 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (3 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 36770 , scrambling fighters between 16000 and 36770.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
No.615 Sqn RAF with Spitfire VIII (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 36770 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 24 minutes
20th TRS with P-40N26 Warhawk (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 26000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
8th FG/35th FS with P-38F Lightning (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 8 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 34500 , scrambling fighters between 18000 and 34500.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
8th FG/36th FS with P-38H Lightning (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 35440 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 35440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
80th FG/89th FS with P-40K Warhawk (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 24000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
80th FG/90th FS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 22000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
348th FG/341st FS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 24000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
80th FG/459th FS with P-38H Lightning (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 35440 , scrambling fighters between 14288 and 35440.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes
311th FBG/528th FBS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 14000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
23rd FG/74th FS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 17 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 23000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes
80th FG/88th FS with P-40K Warhawk (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 24000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes



Lost 52 planes for 8 N1K2....

So...the problem wasn't really solved. It was possibly worsened[:(]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Yeah, I just watched a show in which pilots described the P-51D as "the perfect plane." I also remember a documentary on modern air racing and one of the most common planes used in racing is a restored P-51 due to its excellent combo of speed and maneuverability. By all accounts it was the ultimate air superiority fighter of the pre-jet age.

GJ, have you tried a game with Symon's air mod yet? I hear good things but haven't tried it myself yet.

Hi Crib,

yes, we did try it during the first couple of months of 1944... to be honest I was the one who asked for a re-change back to stock data.
With Symon's air mod, his N1K2 and J2M3 were fast as hell, comparable to the KI-84r... faster than anything the allied had but the P-47D...which meant that I was being swept to oblivion, not only by Franks (remember we were back in early 1944, when the KI-83 wasn't online yet) but also by hordes of Georges and Jacks... who touched the speed of 404 mhp...

So...the problem wasn't really solved. It was possibly worsened[:(]

Weren't you also using an altitude HR though? If not that seems like a counter-productive change in capabilities.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I concur with Cribtop.

I admit I've mostly been skimming your AAR, as I think you put up a lot of posts in a row a couple of times while I was out of town or otherwise not regularly checking the forums, so maybe my perception is off. But basically: why was it necessary to go "all in" for Singapore, Palembang, and Batavia? Why not just skip them, while keeping them isolated? I understand the need for a shipyard (how big is Soerabaja's? It's easier to take than Batavia due to terrain)... I don't know. I just think maybe there's a reminder in here for the rest of us to just go around the big thorny patch sometimes. This may not have even been one of those times, but it's worth thinking about.

Just a brief note before leaving town...

I tried to bypass those strongpoints, and i tried to simply isolatethem and bomb to oblivion. The problem was that, with the reduced effect pf the 500lb GP bomb, high forts and what seemed to be an unlimited number of supplies those bases couldn't simply be bypasses. The air threat was simply too big. My CAP was unable to provide any decent cover for my TFs, due to the impossibility to defend against His sweeps. If you bypass a base like Singapore you have to be sure that that base is dead, like the allies did with Truk in RL. Otherwise, sooner or later, 2000 planes will pop up there attacking your TFs...and you cannot always use the CVs as escort.


T me that was a forced choice rather than an option

That all makes sense. I think you were forced into the choice due to time constraints? Mr. Kane seems an elite opponent. I'm glad now that I'm playing the people I'm playing rather than taking him up on his offer several months ago when my first Allies PBEM closed [;)].

Because you can always make sure to reroute around these points/remain under LRCAP umbrellas. For Truk, that means rerouting north and covering via Wake/Saipan/Tinian or south with cover from Hollandia/Peleliu. Eventually, Truk will be out of range for any fighter aircraft to fly there, and any fighters there will be stuck, at which point the danger lessens a bit.

For Singapore, that means continuing to route your stuff around the Borneo/Celebes area while avoiding the Sumatra area. Same deal here with the out of range to transfer, but it's much much much harder to do than with Truk, as that means you pretty much have to capture all of Thailand, Indochina, Borneo/Sarawak, and some of the PI.

No, I don't think Singapore could be avoided. couldn't be bombed, couldn't be swept, and I couln'dt simply move south under LRCAP. Simply because he could easily sweep my bases, thus killing my CAP and forcing me to keep it down... the only way would have been to use a strong group of CVEs as a constant escort (cause they can't be swept) in order to chew up any attempt of naval attack...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Another big strategic mistake of mine that I now see is the following:

It's impossible to think to advance on a Burma-DEI vector and on a CENTPAC one without having in mind the real goal to unite these two vectors.
Basically, doing what I did (so to say: concentrate all my major assets in the DEI-SRA advance), means that you're gonna be too stretched on supplies and you're gonna do without any serious repair shipyard.
Why? Because in DBB India produces very little supplies. Basically not enough to support a real late war massive offensive.
The supplies need to be brought up from the western coast to Oz and from Oz to the DEI...a LONG journey...
CT has probably enough (barely) of them, but very few tons of fuel are brought there...
Then the absence of any major repair yard means that, once a major ship is damaged, it's gonna be out of the war for a looooooong time. Much longer than if you used the western coast yards.
Colombo is too small...and it gets crowded too soon.
Sydney has the very same problem, and CT isn't that better.
Say a BB gets 30 flt damage fighting near Singapore... you need to ship it back to Colombo first (which normally is already crowded by damaged CVEs, APAs and CL/DDs), then to CT...and from there to eastern coast... all these movements easily takes a couple of months...plus the repair works...plus the trip back...[8|]

If you really want to strangle the empire, and you want to do a double-vector attack (DEI and Pacific), I think you really need to make a plan that, sooner better than later, makes the two vectors combine.

Regarding the India supply issue - India can be used to supply that vector. You must bring in massive amounts of supply to India, and ship it from there. First off, in the early going Cape Town requires fuel to be brought in or else the ships visiting there will run dry. Second, Cape Town can be denuded of supply (keep a little so as not to starve arriving units) easily early on, but continues receiving large supply convoys as time goes on and so is a good long term source of supply. The fuel situation there will also abate during '43 as the arriving convoys will begin including large amounts of fuel. And fuel should not be shipping from Cape Town to India. Abadan can supply all the fuel imports that India needs. You can also, in the early going, send some supply convoys from the Atlantic to Cape Town to bolster what is available for India.

Next is Aden. Initially supply from there is small but will help a bit. As soon as the Med is open, get two or three Liberty ship CS convoys going from the Atlantic to Aden. It's shorter than the Cape Town route and then will be shorter to trans-ship to India. That will probably roughly coincide with no longer needing to send supply convoys from the Atlantic to Cape Town.

Basically, you have to supplement the supply available in Cape Town/Aden that can be sent to India. And in Babes 'C' especially, you have to make sure there is adequate shipping there to move it.

I agree. In fact I did exactly that! But it took a lot of time to do that in order to set up a constant flow...I ended up having 2 millions supplies in Sumatra and 400K in Java... but this system really started to work in second half of 1944...before that date the supply-chain was much much less productive

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: khyberbill

In the game the P-51D is comparable in combat to the P-40K with longer range. When was the last time you saw a special on the P-40K?

That is certainly not the case with a 32k max altitude HR. In my experience the P-51 did very well, including the B and D models.

Yes, I think, at the present state of the air system, the only HR that can work is the one who sets a max altitude at a reasonable number... Sadly, but the dive is defenetly too important in the present combat system.

Also consider that the only allied planes that can really counter, on CAP, planes like the KI-84r, KI-83 or the KI-94, are the P-51D and the P-47...but both are not great defensive planes, mostly due to their low climb rate value...which means that a sentai of 49 Japanese planes could easily be in superiority when facing an equal number of allied planes on CAP

[GreyJoy]

That you everybody!
Hope to be back soon with another match. Learnt a lot from this one! Mr.Kane is a great player and a very good opponent. Possibly one of the best Japanese player around afaik[&o]

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Yeah, I just watched a show in which pilots described the P-51D as "the perfect plane." I also remember a documentary on modern air racing and one of the most common planes used in racing is a restored P-51 due to its excellent combo of speed and maneuverability. By all accounts it was the ultimate air superiority fighter of the pre-jet age.

GJ, have you tried a game with Symon's air mod yet? I hear good things but haven't tried it myself yet.

Hi Crib,

yes, we did try it during the first couple of months of 1944... to be honest I was the one who asked for a re-change back to stock data.
With Symon's air mod, his N1K2 and J2M3 were fast as hell, comparable to the KI-84r... faster than anything the allied had but the P-47D...which meant that I was being swept to oblivion, not only by Franks (remember we were back in early 1944, when the KI-83 wasn't online yet) but also by hordes of Georges and Jacks... who touched the speed of 404 mhp...

So...the problem wasn't really solved. It was possibly worsened[:(]

Weren't you also using an altitude HR though? If not that seems like a counter-productive change in capabilities.

No, we didn't have an alt HR using that mod...

I think the only way to solve that problem is to change the approach... my next game will be PDU off, Realistic R&D ON

[obvert]

Ahhhh. I see.

One thing Jocke and I threw around was the idea of banning pilot training period. It would be tough to do, but maybe have no dedicated pilots training to simulate the much more various quality of pilots seen in the war. This might be the only way for the Japanese to have the number of very good pilots they had matched with the general majority being pretty raw. The Allies would still be decent across the board and would improve more throughout the game due to better pilots protection and thus retention.

I've done a few preliminary tests and it seems poor pilots fighting each other can still have a lot of bloody combat with some extreme outcomes. Naval air power might be different though if all pilots had naval bombing skill in the 45-50 range rather than the 70 range. It could maybe reduce 4E power strikes thus making it unnecessary to have night bombing HRs.

TRACOM would suddenly become very important as well.

Something to think about.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Ahhhh. I see.

One thing Jocke and I threw around was the idea of banning pilot training period. It would be tough to do, but maybe have no dedicated pilots training to simulate the much more various quality of pilots seen in the war. This might be the only way for the Japanese to have the number of very good pilots they had matched with the general majority being pretty raw. The Allies would still be decent across the board and would improve more throughout the game due to better pilots protection and thus retention.

I've done a few preliminary tests and it seems poor pilots fighting each other can still have a lot of bloody combat with some extreme outcomes. Naval air power might be different though if all pilots had naval bombing skill in the 45-50 range rather than the 70 range. It could maybe reduce 4E power strikes thus making it unnecessary to have night bombing HRs.

TRACOM would suddenly become very important as well.

Something to think about.

mmm... that would make a lot of sense, but also would mean Japan air force could easily crumble after 1943... that's probably too much imho.
I really think with PDU off and R&D ON, things could really be different playing Symon's mod...
But I don't really know...

Maybe next time Erik I could play Japan against you...as u promised to me when we were eating Indian food in London[;)]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: obvert

Ahhhh. I see.

One thing Jocke and I threw around was the idea of banning pilot training period. It would be tough to do, but maybe have no dedicated pilots training to simulate the much more various quality of pilots seen in the war. This might be the only way for the Japanese to have the number of very good pilots they had matched with the general majority being pretty raw. The Allies would still be decent across the board and would improve more throughout the game due to better pilots protection and thus retention.

I've done a few preliminary tests and it seems poor pilots fighting each other can still have a lot of bloody combat with some extreme outcomes. Naval air power might be different though if all pilots had naval bombing skill in the 45-50 range rather than the 70 range. It could maybe reduce 4E power strikes thus making it unnecessary to have night bombing HRs.

TRACOM would suddenly become very important as well.

Something to think about.

mmm... that would make a lot of sense, but also would mean Japan air force could easily crumble after 1943... that's probably too much imho.
I really think with PDU off and R&D ON, things could really be different playing Symon's mod...
But I don't really know...

Maybe next time Erik I could play Japan against you...as u promised to me when we were eating Indian food in London[;)]

That would be awesome if you want to take it on! PDU off would be tough for Japan, but maybe easier against an Allied rookie like me! [;)]

If you're thinking of it in the near future I'm in, so let me know. I would not be able to go too fast always, but as you know I'd be steady and would commit to it long term. Drop me an email if you want to get further into it. [:)]

[ny59giants]

It would be good to see a DBB game between GreyJoy and Obvert that had PDU "OFF" and R&D "ON" using Symon/JWE new air data. From what Symon has posted, DBB and the new air data is for these settings.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Maybe next time Erik I could play Japan against you...

Epic