Gal Civ 3 is ready for alpha - $99 on Steam

[gradenko2k]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
Most game installs today make needed registry changes/additions, so this won't work if the game in question does this. Also I can pretty much guarantee any Steam game install adds tons of extra stuff on top of game additions to your registry and I bet their exe won't work if any of it is missing.

I already gave you a listing of every game on Steam that explicitly does this.

I don't really know how much clearer I can make this: If the developer/publisher of a game requests from Valve to not put any sort of DRM on the Steam version of their game, they won't put it on and you can keep the install forever to run outside of the client.

Never using Steam yourself does not give you license to make false claims and baseless accusations about how it works.

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
Also, I'll give you another example that steam controls your games. Reformat your hard drive. Reinstall that game using your backup without ever installing the STEAM client and tell me that game works. Even in offline mode Steam makes a check to see if that game came from Steam and is activated. Your lil backup service is only as good as that harddrive it's stored on with the Steam client active. Remove your steam client and reformat that drive and you'll see what happens to those games you got on steam.

Herein lies the difference between say a Matrixgames .exe file and Steams. You do not need any type of client to use the setup.exe, with Steam you do.

You mention Crusader Kings when that's really the best example of what I'm talking about. Install Steam, install CK, copy the installed folder out of the Steam directory and into another hard drive, or burn it onto a disc, or put it on a USB stick.

Assuming you're still running a Windows machine 10 years from now and the media survives, you can boot up Crusader Kings from that folder without ever having touched Steam.

The fact of the matter is though I cannot get the patch updates without the steam client from gamersgate the origional distribution point. They will not work. Don't be an idiot and think they do. First of all you can't even download them independently of Steam. So any games you have saved or whatever in another file or cd or what have you, the PATCHES are from the Steam Client network. You can't get them any other place if they are exclusive to Steam. So what good is an .exe if you can't patch the game independently from Steam?

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
Most game installs today make needed registry changes/additions, so this won't work if the game in question does this. Also I can pretty much guarantee any Steam game install adds tons of extra stuff on top of game additions to your registry and I bet their exe won't work if any of it is missing.

I already gave you a listing of every game on Steam that explicitly does this.

I don't really know how much clearer I can make this: If the developer/publisher of a game requests from Valve to not put any sort of DRM on the Steam version of their game, they won't put it on and you can keep the install forever to run outside of the client.

Never using Steam yourself does not give you license to make false claims and baseless accusations about how it works.

That may very well be true on SOME games at Steam but certainly not ALL of them and most commonly NONE of the MAINstream titles. Most of those have DRM and Steam Activation required. Thus any games on Steam that require Steam activation and DRM will be lost should steam go belly up. In a bankruptcy the last thing Steam will be thinking about are their previous customers.

As another example save the setup.exe of say Shogun 2 (that was exclusive to Steam I believe) reformat and remove all traces of Steam. Then install Shogun 2 and tell me it works.

[Qwixt]

This is what happens here at every mention of Steam [:D]

[aaatoysandmore]

Yeah, steam suxors long live Matrixgames and Slitherine. [:D]

[Icemania]

Moving away from Steam and back onto the primary topic, in ~ May the GalCiv III Beta 1 will release and it appears there will be at a discount to the standard $50 price. It is not yet clear what that discount will be as far as I can see at the moment.

The GalCiv III tentative schedule

[aaatoysandmore]

I was in the Elemental War of Magic beta (pay early and get to beta test something never released) and I ain't fallen for that discount crap again. Fool me once my fault, you're not getting a chance to fool me twice Stardock.

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

I was in the Elemental War of Magic beta (pay early and get to beta test something never released) and I ain't fallen for that discount crap again. Fool me once my fault, you're not getting a chance to fool me twice Stardock.

You got all the expansion for free did you not? It turned into a good game so the investment paid off in the end.

[Jevhaddah]

ORIGINAL: flanyboy

Even in Europe the games specifically state you don't own the game, the question really is not what the game companies say, it's what the courts say. The right of first sale exists in the US as well but that doesn't mean game companies don't call it a license with that said the bigger question is game companies ability to enforce the license.

ORIGINAL: Jevhaddah

ORIGINAL: Alchenar

You have never ever owned a video game. Whatever form you bought your game in, retail or digital distribution, you bought a license to use the software, not the actual software itself.

Having the CD in your hand is not some magic legal silver bullet, nor are companies that exist to make money by selling games secretly plotting to cut you off from the games they have sold you because they are evil.

I do not know where yoo live but in Europe It's different.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/07/03/eu-cour ... tal-games/

Cheers

Jev

Here is a more detailed account of the ruling, the bold edit is mine.

The ruling in more depth:

"Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy - tangible or intangible - and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy. Therefore, even if the licence prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012- ... aded-games

Cheers

Jev

[Jevhaddah]

Sorry for the thread hijack.....

I have just reinstalled Galciv2 [:D]

Cheers

Jev

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

I was in the Elemental War of Magic beta (pay early and get to beta test something never released) and I ain't fallen for that discount crap again. Fool me once my fault, you're not getting a chance to fool me twice Stardock.

You got all the expansion for free did you not? It turned into a good game so the investment paid off in the end.

Only if one continued playing it, I didn't. I bought Elemental War of Magic, not that other crap. Giving a bunch of free crap is still crap no matter how much it costs.

Just an example there was suppose to be multiplayer in Elemental War of Magic, well there was but it never worked correctly. So, in all you free expansions where is it? There were suppose to be like a family tree of the different factions, where is that? Plus, many of the changes are not what Elemental War of Magic was or was suppose to be like. It was a hype a big hype and a type of hype from a company I will never trust again. Especially after he made that open statement about a "gamers bill of rights" which was in relation to steam an its intrusive client at the time.

[zakblood]

price is way too high for me, i'll wait for a sale

[wodin]

Remember when developers had to hire and pay people to test their games...now you have to pay them to do it..how times have changed.

[Rising-Sun]

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

I was in the Elemental War of Magic beta (pay early and get to beta test something never released) and I ain't fallen for that discount crap again. Fool me once my fault, you're not getting a chance to fool me twice Stardock.

You got all the expansion for free did you not? It turned into a good game so the investment paid off in the end.

Nope, i didnt get shits. But however i did get the Second Standalone game that is compare to EWoM, but LH i had to buy plus addon DLCs.

[DrApostle]

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

I was in the Elemental War of Magic beta (pay early and get to beta test something never released) and I ain't fallen for that discount crap again. Fool me once my fault, you're not getting a chance to fool me twice Stardock.

You got all the expansion for free did you not? It turned into a good game so the investment paid off in the end.

Nope, i didnt get shits. But however i did get the Second Standalone game that is compare to EWoM, but LH i had to buy plus addon DLCs.

That's funny. The game came out on August 24, 2010. I pre-ordered the game on August 23, 2010, one day prior to release. I received both Fallen Enchantress and Legendary Heroes for free.

[Noble713]

GalCiv 1 and 2 are some of my least favorite 4X games. The ship design/combat mechanics were just never to my taste.

To compound that, I'm another gamer burned by the Elemental fiasco (bought it on release day) and even Fallen Enchantress failed to live up to my expectations for the original game (the Dominions series remains the definitive fantasy 4X IMO).

So yeah, no way I'm forking over $100 to alpha test their product.

[tevans6220]

It's not only the price that bothers me but also this whole early access thing. Once a publisher or developer has your money they really have no incentive to finish their product in a timely manner. It could be delayed for ages. Just look at Steam to see what I'm talking about. There are early access games on steam that have been in alpha or beta status for over a year. Used to be software was tested before being sold. Then it got to where software was released early and buyers became paid beta testers. Now they don't even hide the fact that the product is unfinished because in most cases it's just getting started. They charge full price or higher for early access, throw a bone or two in the way of DLC or expansions and give people the "honor" of testing or "being in on the ground floor". Doesn't seem right to me.

Kickstarter also seems like a scam to me. In some cases you could give money and see no return on your investment. Maybe I'm wrong but I think if you can't afford to make a game without public funding then maybe you shouldn't be making games in the first place. It's like here at Matrix. Many game designers/developers have fulltime jobs and do game development as a second job. I hate to say this but it shows. Numerous bugs, numerous patches and in some cases bugs that are never quite fixed are just some of the problems. Some would say that a game receiving 15 or more patches is good customer service. The developer/publisher is doing their utmost to work out all of the bugs. But I don't see it that way. I look at it that unless there was a total rewrite of the software or features added after it was sold, the need for numerous patches shows that the program wasn't really ready for release. Again hate to say it but Matrix seems to sell works in progress instead of finished products. Matrix isn't the only one guilty but since this is a Matrix forum may as well just mention them. I don't really know what the answer is but I think early access, Kickstarter and a release now patch later mindset are all bad ideas. As long as you have people willing to buy under those conditions I'm afraid nothing will change.

[tevans6220]

Never mind. Meant to quote and reply to another post. Sorry guys.

[tevans6220]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
Most game installs today make needed registry changes/additions, so this won't work if the game in question does this. Also I can pretty much guarantee any Steam game install adds tons of extra stuff on top of game additions to your registry and I bet their exe won't work if any of it is missing.

I already gave you a listing of every game on Steam that explicitly does this.

I don't really know how much clearer I can make this: If the developer/publisher of a game requests from Valve to not put any sort of DRM on the Steam version of their game, they won't put it on and you can keep the install forever to run outside of the client.

Never using Steam yourself does not give you license to make false claims and baseless accusations about how it works.

That may very well be true on SOME games at Steam but certainly not ALL of them and most commonly NONE of the MAINstream titles. Most of those have DRM and Steam Activation required. Thus any games on Steam that require Steam activation and DRM will be lost should steam go belly up. In a bankruptcy the last thing Steam will be thinking about are their previous customers.

As another example save the setup.exe of say Shogun 2 (that was exclusive to Steam I believe) reformat and remove all traces of Steam. Then install Shogun 2 and tell me it works.

You're missing one very important thing though. When you make your backup to disk or stick the game will have already been patched to a certain point. Maybe all the way depending on what expansions were purchased. So you really aren't losing a thing provided that you always back up your steam purchases.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: tevans6220

Kickstarter also seems like a scam to me. In some cases you could give money and see no return on your investment. Maybe I'm wrong but I think if you can't afford to make a game without public funding then maybe you shouldn't be making games in the first place. It's like here at Matrix. Many game designers/developers have fulltime jobs and do game development as a second job. I hate to say this but it shows.

Kickstarter is fine if it stays among the people it was designed for. Yes, there's a substantial risk, but nobody tries to hide that.. it's the chance you take for a game you particularly want to see that the usual publishers won't take a chance on. Where it's all going wrong is that Kickstarter is now being used to get excessive amounts of money up-front from particular customer groups willing to pony up when their games could quite easily be funded through the usual publishing route. It's not a 'scam', in that every customer does have a choice and a reasonable idea of what they are getting, but it is pretty unpleasant in that its purpose is to extract the maximum amount of money possible by exploiting the genre, franchise and company loyalty of customers.