A snapshot AAR

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: STEF78

May be it's time to give ground for SHC...

Maybe, I have of course been thinking about that, but it's easier said than done. The problem is that if I give ground, I will be out in the open without fortifications. And with the alternate mud/clear turns in spring I will have to retreat in mud, which means that I will be able to retreat maybe 2 hexes, which is not really enough to make much of a difference. Note that i did retreat before the Kursk pocket (see map above), and that didnt seem to hinder the Germans making a pocket.

[gingerbread]

You don't seem to be in any hurry to combine the infantry brigades to divisions, any particular reason?

[Tarhunnas]

Well, I am combining a fair number each turn, but as you say, I am in no particular hurry. In some areas I feel the brigades are useful to spread out and get depth. I also want to keep some brigades to use in making rifle corps.

[jwolf]

What is the current Axis VP total?  I'm wondering just how much room for retreat Tarhunnas has before facing a "do or die" stand for the final cities, if it comes to that.

BTW checking the Soviet OOB from post 131 you can see they will start the 42 summer with greater strength than the historical  OOB as shown in the start of the 42 scenario.  All this in spite of losing Moscow and Leningrad.  Weird.

[timmyab]

I think it's 236 at the moment. The game's quite nicely balanced.
You are right, the 260 VP check does in 42 what should be done in 41. The Soviet player can't just run like crazy, but has to delay and weaken the Germans as much as possible even if it means sacrificing men.

[jmarzian]

This is a very interesting game, the losses suffered by Tarhunnas but still ready to battle it out in 42 seems amazing. I am just reading teh AARs, deciding to buy or not. But this has been an excellent read, thank you both. [:)]

[Tarhunnas]

Turn 52, Clear.

The Hitlerists make a powerful thrust straight east and cross the Don. I hadn't expected that they could do that, but on the plus side, there is no major encirclement. Every clear turn without a pocket is a good turn . Map before Soviet moves.

[Tarhunnas]

The Red Army is not taking this passively however. A number of attacks are made in other sectors of the front with the aim of keeping the German invaders occupied. We do not want them to have any quiet sectors of the front. Here is a map of two successful attacks in the Moscow region. We are drawing steadily nearer to liberating Moscow... As can be seen, a couple of Guards Rifle Corps have been formed in this region to give additional power to the attacks.

[Tarhunnas]

The southern part of the front after Soviet moves. Comrade Stalin has authorized some withdrawals.

[Tarhunnas]

Losses and OOB after turn 52.

[821Bobo]

I would be more worried that Tim will now turn to the south. He can use Don between Boguchar and Voronezh to protecting his flank and strike south. Placing some cavalry and tank corps between Boguchar and Rostov is maybe not a bad idea. You know just in case.

[STEF78]

The bridgehead over the Don is not a good news.

But as 821Bobo I think the main threat is a southern hook.

Keep and increase the pressure in the north, he will have to send reinforcements in this area.

[Tarhunnas]

I have noted that the German Panzer and Motorized divisions look very weak. Average CV of a panzer division seems to be around 7-8, and some motorized divisions are at 2-3! I do not remember that German mobile divisions were this weak at the beginning of 1942. I am not sure this can be ascribed to heavier fighting in the mild winder, I am more inclined to believe that the recent bug fixes have resulted in heavier wear and tear on the German mobile forces. Not saying this is either good or bad, just noting the effect.

The Germans can still encircle me, but long term I am beginning tro doubt that they can sustain an offensive during 1942. I know, I may have to eat those words later. It is more an observation on game balance in general than on the current situation. How do the panzer strengths compare to your forces at the same time STEF?

[timmyab]

Most of my divisions in the South are as weak as kittens, I don't know why, it might be connected with losses because of retreats from Soviet attacks which are unpreventable due to sappers and CV inflation. Two thirds of these attacks succeed and most are below 1:1 initial CV.
TOE is mostly between 30% and 60% for mobile divisions and a bit higher for the infantry.
I agree that my 42 campaign is likely to fade out rapidly, I simply haven't got the strength to hold the flanks after a breakthrough and replacements just aren't getting to where they're needed fast enough.
May even see a Stalingrad type disaster if I insist on going for it.

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: timmyab
TOE is mostly between 30% and 60% for mobile divisions and a bit higher for the infantry.

I think that it is the price for heavy "mild blizzard" fights

I agree that my 42 campaign is likely to fade out rapidly, I simply haven't got the strength to hold the flanks after a breakthrough and replacements just aren't getting to where they're needed fast enough.
May even see a Stalingrad type disaster if I insist on going for it.

If you loose initiative at this stage of the war, SHC will reinforce quickly and the pressure will increase dramatically

[gingerbread]

ORIGINAL: timmyab

Most of my divisions in the South are as weak as kittens, I don't know why, it might be connected with losses because of retreats from Soviet attacks which are unpreventable due to sappers and CV inflation. Two thirds of these attacks succeed and most are below 1:1 initial CV.
TOE is mostly between 30% and 60% for mobile divisions and a bit higher for the infantry.
I agree that my 42 campaign is likely to fade out rapidly, I simply haven't got the strength to hold the flanks after a breakthrough and replacements just aren't getting to where they're needed fast enough.
May even see a Stalingrad type disaster if I insist on going for it.

With an OOB strength of 3.5M+, I'd say it a question of lack of prioritization. There has been 12 full strength Ger Inf divisions as reinforcement during May & June. That's an entire army! You might consider rotating some mobile units to get them up to strength.

[timmyab]

ORIGINAL: STEF78
If you loose initiative at this stage of the war, SHC will reinforce quickly and the pressure will increase dramatically

Yes I know it's s**t or bust at this stage. I'll have to go for it

ORIGINAL: gingerbread
With an OOB strength of 3.5M+, I'd say it a question of lack of prioritization.

I have done a bit of that. 18th and 16th armies are at 80% max toe for example and some of the armor was lying idle in the Spring for just that reason. Divisions are pulled out of the line whenever possible to save them from attrition - all that sort of thing.
The main problem is that the Russians can now crush anything that you put in front of them in 42 which is very silly. 90% TOE stacked German infantry divisions in woods terrain and a three level fort? No problem - it's gone. This should not happen in 1942 (imo)
On the plus side for me, my logistics have been overly generous. Lots of fuel for the tanks and good MPs for the infantry.
For all my moaning I think this is going to be a close run thing and it's an exciting game.

[GamesaurusRex]

ORIGINAL: timmyab

ORIGINAL: STEF78
If you loose initiative at this stage of the war, SHC will reinforce quickly and the pressure will increase dramatically

Yes I know it's s**t or bust at this stage. I'll have to go for it

ORIGINAL: gingerbread
With an OOB strength of 3.5M+, I'd say it a question of lack of prioritization.

I have done a bit of that. 18th and 16th armies are at 80% max toe for example and some of the armor was lying idle in the Spring for just that reason. Divisions are pulled out of the line whenever possible to save them from attrition - all that sort of thing.
The main problem is that the Russians can now crush anything that you put in front of them in 42 which is very silly. 90% TOE stacked German infantry divisions in woods terrain and a three level fort? No problem - it's gone. This should not happen in 1942 (imo)
On the plus side for me, my logistics have been overly generous. Lots of fuel for the tanks and good MPs for the infantry.
For all my moaning I think this is going to be a close run thing and it's an exciting game.

ROFLMAO... this is utter rubbish. The Russians barely have sufficient forces to hold a contiguous line in 42, much less assemble a combat capable counter-attack that is anything more than an invitation to be pocketed.

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

ORIGINAL: timmyab

ORIGINAL: STEF78
If you loose initiative at this stage of the war, SHC will reinforce quickly and the pressure will increase dramatically

Yes I know it's s**t or bust at this stage. I'll have to go for it

ORIGINAL: gingerbread
With an OOB strength of 3.5M+, I'd say it a question of lack of prioritization.

I have done a bit of that. 18th and 16th armies are at 80% max toe for example and some of the armor was lying idle in the Spring for just that reason. Divisions are pulled out of the line whenever possible to save them from attrition - all that sort of thing.
The main problem is that the Russians can now crush anything that you put in front of them in 42 which is very silly. 90% TOE stacked German infantry divisions in woods terrain and a three level fort? No problem - it's gone. This should not happen in 1942 (imo)
On the plus side for me, my logistics have been overly generous. Lots of fuel for the tanks and good MPs for the infantry.
For all my moaning I think this is going to be a close run thing and it's an exciting game.

ROFLMAO... this is utter rubbish. The Russians barely have sufficient forces to hold a contiguous line in 42, much less assemble a combat capable counter-attack that is anything more than an invitation to be pocketed.

In a spirited attack under the guidance of the leading principles of Marxist Leninism the heroic units of 24th army liberate the city of Kalinin. In a twist of fate the army is commanded by Stepan Kalinin. (No idea if he is related to Mikhail Kalinin for whom the city is named).

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: timmyab
The main problem is that the Russians can now crush anything that you put in front of them in 42 which is very silly. 90% TOE stacked German infantry divisions in woods terrain and a three level fort? No problem - it's gone. This should not happen in 1942 (imo)

While it is not exactly no problem, I have to concentrate forces and need a rifle corps or two, I must say I agree that the offensive capabilies of the Red Army against well fortified positions at this stage of the war seems exaggerated. It was exactly on attacks against this kind of positions that the Red Army lost tens of thousands of men to no avail in operation Mars in late 1942.

Maybe there should be some kind of mechanism to delay this kind of capabilities for the Soviets? Limitations on sapper numbers and/or capabilities? Later date for forming rifle corps?