And While I'm On The Subject Of SU...

[GamesaurusRex]

Why exactly are all the various SUs included in the game, when apparently there are only three or four that are useful ?
Why is there absolutely no explanation in the documentation regarding what the SUs do or where they should be attached ?
The lack of information is just a confusing mess and detracts from the game.

[Blubel]

They are there, because they existed historically. If you just want for the most firepower, you should just build sappers and artillery, later a few heavy tanks. I like to "roleplay" a bit more and so build all kinds of stuff.
There is some explanation in the manual, but not to much. Most of the units are quite straightforward. Ski units double in cv in winter.

[GamesaurusRex]

ORIGINAL: Blubel

They are there, because they existed historically. If you just want for the most firepower, you should just build sappers and artillery, later a few heavy tanks. I like to "roleplay" a bit more and so build all kinds of stuff.
There is some explanation in the manual, but not to much. Most of the units are quite straightforward. Ski units double in cv in winter.

Oh, so you mean that the most important factors affecting unit CV in the game are completely hidden...

[Blubel]

It is documented, just not in the section of the manual you are looking at. See section 22.1.

[GamesaurusRex]

ORIGINAL: Blubel

It is documented, just not in the section of the manual you are looking at. See section 22.1.

22.1 Weather and Its Effects... [&:]

[Blubel]

Well, it is the effect of the snow and blizzard weather...

[GamesaurusRex]

Oh, I see what you were referring to, Blubel... you were talking strictly about the ski SU's... I was not referring to just the ski SUs. I was talking about ALL of the SU definitions, functions, usage, and at least some explanation of CV value... rather than flying like a blind monkey in a banana storm.

[randallw]

There is some explanation of how CV is counted and weighed, in a basic way. You really have to read the whole manual for all you need. Get a good sleep before starting or you may [>:] before you finish.

[GamesaurusRex]

Actually, no... there isn't even a basic explanation. It's VERY poorly documented.

[Blubel]

There is something about about the cv value of weapons at the end of the manual. There is something about the units in the war room. Also, why don't you just build 1 of each in a test game and have a look?

[morvael]

If all that matters for you is expected CV then this might come handy:

tm.asp?m=3243486
tm.asp?m=3243508

Will be updated to latest version when I will finish 1.08, perhaps sooner but I can't guarantee that.

[Gabriel B.]

If i may ask, do non motorised infantry/engineers atached to motorised units still receive temporary motorisation ?

[morvael]

Yes, and since .12 it's clearly visible.

[Gabriel B.]

Thanks , I no longer asign those and I was not sure .

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

Actually, no... there isn't even a basic explanation. It's VERY poorly documented.

You can reduce it to a fairly simple understanding:

a) there are a few SUs that add 1 CV - motorcycle, ski, tank and heavy tank ... maybe also the various SU-76 etc formations;
b) sappers build things and help destroy enemy fortifications
c) the rest add to the firepower of the unit, build a few test units and see the impact (use the slowest setting), so artillery will both destroy forts and disrupt and so on. Mortars for eg, are good to inflict attrition
d) railroad and the engineer-sapper SUs repair rails ...

Which to use, well go for the largest as they often bring support with them (so reduce the load on the Soviet army), beyond that ... Morvael's fantastic guides and common sense.

Look at the production cost, look at the combat value, trade them off. Particularly early game with the Soviets I tend to build what is in the pool to limit the production demand, so I'll take howitzer based units merely to get some artillery into the front lines. When things calm down, I'll pay more attention to what I really want.

[Schmart]

Rex,

There is some information here on roughly what equivalent SUs were historically built and when, to help guide you if you so choose:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3126849

[GamesaurusRex]

Thanks to all, gentlemen !

and especially Morvael [&o]

[Wheat]

I'm glad I'm playing the Germans. It's simpler. You can't build stuff, so no worries.

[M60A3TTS]

Saves a lot of time that way. You don't have to click 500 times to build 500 sappers.

[randallw]

ORIGINAL: Wheat

I'm glad I'm playing the Germans. It's simpler. You can't build stuff, so no worries.

Uh oh, some people won't like that opinion! [:D]