map scale questions using other maps, etc.

[WABAC]

I get that each hex is 500 meters (and a specific number of pixels) from side to side.

I do not have the imagination, or math skills, to figure out how to translate that to something like an Army Map Service map at 1-100K such as this Fulda area map: http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islan ... po%3A18912

Or to this 1-200K Deutsche Generalkarte 13 http://www.landkartenarchiv.de/cgi-bin/ ... rte13_1958

I'm not sure that that the Generalkarte maps are public domain, but the stuff at McMasters is. My hope is to be able to scale an image with GIMP if it could be done without too much distortion of the pixels in all of those little lines.

>> When you run out out of imagination and skill, orneriness and stubbornness may see you through.

[WildCatNL]

Thanks for the McMasters link.

If you look at the Fulda area map, it shows a 1000m/1km scale at the bottom. To match the that map with a game map, scale the Fulda map such that 1km from the map scale corresponds to 2 hexes vertically (sounds easier than it is).
Alternatively, scale the Fulda map such that the 1km scale corresponds to 128 pixels (and the 8km/8000m scale corresponds to 1024 pixels).

Here is an example with 1km grid lines combined with a FCRS game map, showing that 2 hexes vertically correspond to 1km.

William

[WABAC]

My previous post was all wrong.

So here is how I worked things out: I took a screen shot of a blank hex map from hexdraw and dropped it into GIMP. From there I was able to determine that the scale from the screen shot was 72 pixels per hex or 144 pixels per kilometer.

Then I took the giant .tiff file from McMasters and scaled it to 72 pixels per inch.

>>On Sunday evening May 4, Mr. Peabody discovered flaws in Sherman's methodology and sent him back to the drawing board:

From the McMasters map snip out the entire kilometer scale, which runs to nine kilometers all together. You will start by measuring the number of pixels in the 9 kilometers, and since you will be reducing the map, you will divide 1296 (144*9) by your pixel count from the source map. Export the scale into the hexdraw background folder and see how it fits.

It doesn't fit. It is too long. A few pixels here or there really add up fast when you start dealing with a few thousand of them. What to do? Take the result of the first calculation and fiddle it until you get a scale that fits neatly across 18 hexes. It does not take that long.

If you are trying to enlarge a map, like say the 1958 German road map, you will divide the larger number by the smaller number. But once again, you will have to fiddle the numbers.

You can apply this technique to any map with a scale. But I recommend that you use the longest sample available. What may look good in hexdraw for the first kilometer can be surprisingly off kilter by the time you get out to nine or ten.

The attached file has been corrected, and it matches up with the German road map attached below. How do I know it matches up? I turned the white space on the AMS topo map into a transparency layer so that I could see both maps in the back ground in hexdraw. I will use the Army map for topography and the road map for roads, borders, and what nots.

[WABAC]

Thank you sir. I will double check my results versus yours.

The McMaster's is primo stuff if you have been frustrated by the gaps in the Perry-Castenada AMS collection. McMasters also has a series of 1939 German maps that are pretty cool.

[WABAC]

This is another corrected post. Think of it as saving electronic trees from the paper mill.

The map attached here is a German road map of my area of interest from 1958.

While working with the map I noticed that the name of the website is embedded in the image. I am not using any of their imagery directly. I did sample the colors for the IGB and the primary roads. And I used their map as a point of comparison to the AMS map.

[Hexagon]

Is the old problem with hexes... but i dont see bad at all the scale in original maps.

[Jamm]

Nice map archive from Mac

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

Is the old problem with hexes... but i dont see bad at all the scale in original maps.

I have great respect for the original maps now that I have started working on a map of my own. I wanted to have a predictable routine for working with any topo maps. The highways and cities might change. But not so much the underlying topography.

Almost everything worked when I popped my first effort into the FPCRS map editor early this morning [>:].

And then I discovered some bad elevation levels throwing off the map. There were some hidden 99 elevations I just could not find. [8|]

I have since learned how to turn off the background layer to see the elevation numbers on a white background.

So better to fix everything the right way before sending it to the FPCRS editor.

The map edges need work to make them nice. I want to add a few features like naming some of the prominent high points. And I am thinking about modding some agriculture tiles that go hexside to hexside.

Working the map in hexdraw to its present state took about 12 hours, including the time it took [learn how [:D]to place streams and roads.

>Except that, after I posted all of the above I discovered that I had put more garbage in than I originally thought. The file that I had posted here was seriously distorted by using to small of a scale sample size. So when I get a new map I will post it here with a shameless self promotional bump (SSPB).

[WABAC]

This is not the final version that I will be using for my first scenario. But I figured people would prefer the basic map without all of the extras like mines and roadblocks.

No bridges yet either. Just elevation, forests, and the road net. I did not place fields because my scenario takes place when nothing would be growing.

[CapnDarwin]

Looks good. There is a bit of river south of Heustreu that needs a wiggle. Be a good map for some 3d elevation effects too.

[WABAC]

The attached file contains the .pf9 file that goes with the map, and the map as a .jpg to save space. There should not be much of an issue converting the jpg back to .png.

The roadnet is going to look primitive in comparison to what many of you have experienced. But it is my best effort to get at what it might have looked like on January 5, 1962.

The American OOB includes the 1st Battlegroup 30th Infantry commanded by William E. Depuy, elements of 2nd Squadron 14th Armored Cav, and a few other elements based on the December 1961 Station List.

The Soviet OOB features the 117th GMRR along with elements of the 39th GMRD. If anyone has an OOB for the 39th from the late 50's early 60's I would love to see it.

Two sources on the web have helped inspire the idea for my first planned scenario. The first is this on the 2/14th:
http://www.14cav.org/a2h.html that got me started on the search for Camp Wollbach, OP Delta, and OP Echo.

The second is Henry G. Gole's General William E. DePuy: Preparing the Army for Modern War. Depuy's time with the 1/30 is generously sampled at google books.

Among other things, I will be curious to see how the games handles winter weather. And no nukes for this scenario. The aliens made us give them up. Klaatu barada nikto and all that. [:D]


The attached file now has corrected values for visibility and mobility.

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Looks good. There is a bit of river south of Heustreu that needs a wiggle. Be a good map for some 3d elevation effects too.

I'm not sure I have the chops for 3d. And I am itching to get on the road to building the scenario and double checking my user file mods. But folks can do what they want with it as long as they share their efforts with me. [;)]

I think of the area south of Heustreu as a canal. [8D]

[WABAC]

BTW Capn, I could probably use another 10 or fifteen elevation layers even if I can't 3d them. OP Echo should be on east-west ridge above the surrounding terrain.

[Mad Russian]

You can do trial and error pretty quickly for scale. Do a test map and then check actual distances on the original map with your hex grid. If it's off resize it. You should get the right scale pretty quickly without doing any math.

Good Hunting.

MR

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

You can do trial and error pretty quickly for scale. Do a test map and then check actual distances on the original map with your hex grid. If it's off resize it. You should get the right scale pretty quickly without doing any math.

Good Hunting.

MR

Too late for that [:D]

And now that I have my technique down, it goes fast enough for me

[>:]

[WildCatNL]

ORIGINAL: WABAC
The attached file contains the .pf9 file that goes with the map, and the map as a .jpg to save space.

Great to see another user created map. The .jpg looks really great.

However, the .fp9 file doesn't have good values for visual hindrance and mobility hindrance (all hexes have the same values). This will make the AI see through and move through forests as if they weren't there (and they aren't, for the AI). Also, the streams aren't annotated with obstacle id's, so the AI won't have troubles crossing them. This may detract from the scenarios you have in mind.

It shouldn't take too much time to fix this, by rescanning "all layers" in the map values editor, by fixing the 99 elevation values for forest hexes where the terrain is fully covered by forest, and by putting in the obstacle ids.
If you need help, let me know.

William

[Plodder]

ORIGINAL: WABAC

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Looks good. There is a bit of river south of Heustreu that needs a wiggle. Be a good map for some 3d elevation effects too.

I'm not sure I have the chops for 3d. And I am itching to get on the road to building the scenario and double checking my user file mods. But folks can do what they want with it as long as they share their efforts with me. [;)]

I think of the area south of Heustreu as a canal. [8D]

I've nearly finished my latest map so I could 3-d it for you. If you are able to send me images of the map with each terrain layer on a separate image, I could have it done very quickly.

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: W1ll14m

ORIGINAL: WABAC
The attached file contains the .pf9 file that goes with the map, and the map as a .jpg to save space.

Great to see another user created map. The .jpg looks really great.

However, the .fp9 file doesn't have good values for visual hindrance and mobility hindrance (all hexes have the same values). This will make the AI see through and move through forests as if they weren't there (and they aren't, for the AI). Also, the streams aren't annotated with obstacle id's, so the AI won't have troubles crossing them. This may detract from the scenarios you have in mind.

It shouldn't take too much time to fix this, by rescanning "all layers" in the map values editor, by fixing the 99 elevation values for forest hexes where the terrain is fully covered by forest, and by putting in the obstacle ids.
If you need help, let me know.

William

Thanks for the tips William. I will check mobility and visibility with mod guide in hand. I guess I sort of trusted the program to read the values a little too much. And the old horse was eager to get back to the barn a little bit too. [>:]

Since it is winter the only thing effecting visibility will be forests, buildings, and weather so should be pretty simple.

I thought I got all of the elevation 99's else I can't save it?

And I'm hoping that more maps will generate more user-made scenarios. That's what kept TOAW and Steel Panthers alive nearly forever. Here's to users helping users

[WABAC]

ORIGINAL: The Plodder

I've nearly finished my latest map so I could 3-d it for you. If you are able to send me images of the map with each terrain layer on a separate image, I could have it done very quickly.

That's a very kind offer but a little out of my scope at the present time. That means I would have to delve into the GIMP manual to figure out how to do that. [;)]

But I sure would like to see what you and William, and anyone else, can do with the topos and road maps linked to above.

[WABAC]

Before I get on to finishing my map, I thought I would share another link. I don't know which direction the developers of this game are headed, but the British Library now has some lovely War Office maps online. Here is Falaise: http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex ... 38915.html

The stand made by the 1st Polish Armored Division is a scenario begging to be made.