All things Football (soccer) related

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
As you said TD, if you have great players and especially if you are following another successful manager then this manager malarchy is a piece of cake. Remind me again how Barca are doing? [;)]

What goes up must come down, perhaps? There are cycles in football, and the 2009-2011 mesmerising Barcelona could not last for ever [;)]

It's not offensive football or the coach that gave them the title. It's an exceptional coincidence: three world-class players named Messi, Iniesta & Xavi backed by other really good players.

Without them no offensive football or Guardiola in the world would have saved them.

But you see, this team will be remembered by fans all over the world. Just like the old Brazil or Holland. All these teams were a joy to watch (when on fire). Mourinho's teams will NOT be remembered (except by their own supporters). As if he cared in the first place (poor deluded fans [:D]). He's only there to show his CV (I, I, I and more I).

It is clear to me that you are on the side of the "win at all cost" camp. And that includes mega rich teams with mega skilled players parking the bus, playing like small teams. Fair enough. To each his own.

[TulliusDetritus]

Not to mention that this team (barcelona) did something *revolutionary*. Many people do not understand that when they have enormous possessions (on the opponent's field) they are not only trying to attempt a breakthrough (as opposed to giving the ball to their opponent for free) BUT they are defending!

But what an exceptional defence! They don't defend near their box... they're defending on the opponent's pitch! LOL

And this, I am pretty certain I never saw before.

[TulliusDetritus]

Anyways, the Holland thing is there to prove this point! The poor guys failed [therefore = losers] to bag the WCs and YET we remember them (and we always will)! Why? Because you can trick some people but the vast majority of fans will always appreciate above all beauty, generosity, imagination. And this only *offensive* football delivers.

The day this is not true, I will think this sport is sick [8D]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: warspite1
As you said TD, if you have great players and especially if you are following another successful manager then this manager malarchy is a piece of cake. Remind me again how Barca are doing? [;)]

What goes up must come down, perhaps? There are cycles in football, and the 2009-2011 mesmerising Barcelona could not last for ever [;)]

It's not offensive football or the coach that gave them the title. It's an exceptional coincidence: three world-class players named Messi, Iniesta & Xavi backed by other really good players.

warspite1

No, no, no [:-]. You said, effectively, that Mourinho's triumph at Inter Milan was worthless because they were already a successful team. Right, so what the hell is the Barcelona coach doing? It's easy to take a winning team of great players and continue (or actually better) that success right? Er no....

As for "It's not.....the coach that gave them the title".

That comment is simply staggering I'm afraid....

[TulliusDetritus]

Actually IIRC (too lazy to check) it's you who said that Inter had NOT won before ergo credit goes to Mourinho [;)] It's another guy -along with lots of money- who resurrected the eternal Italian under-achiever.

And what is more interesting, all these wins belong to the past now... Last 4 years = 1 big title (out of 8). That's written on stone, sorry. So it looks like he is not some sort of genius after all. If he was, then Ancelotti must be some sort of demi-god.

Warspite, you really need a patron. Once your team will be petro-fuelled you might attract Mourinho. That's after you got the millionaire players or the money to afford the aforementioned millionaire players he will be asking for.

If you think he is the answer, fine. My thesis is that many other coaches might win the trophies you are looking for (and without ugly anti-football) [;)]

After all, EACH year ONE coach wins the Champions League (I mean it's there to take). Ah ok, he's won + 1 these many guys (this +1 has to be the difference between mediocre guys and 100% Gods like Mourinho) [8|]

[warspite1]

You should be less lazy - I said nothing of the sort [;)]. He took a successful (domestically) Inter Milan and won the Champions League (and the treble) by the way.

[warspite1]

You keep on about the lack of trophies over the last 4 years. Have you seen Ancelotti's record? He became a manager a year before Mourinho became Porto manager (ignore his first tiny team for this) - although walked into AC Milan...

He has THREE league titles to Joes's SEVEN. They have two Champions League's each.

Do you realise Mourinho has NEVER finished outside the top 2? Never. Ferguson has. Wenger has. Ancelotti has.

Also look at the number of different clubs, different languages, different cultures - he's conquered the lot. I think you should cut Mourinho some slack.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

You keep on about the lack of trophies over the last 4 years.

These 4 years are everything as 1) he is the self-appointed best manager of the world and 2) he is the self-appointed manager of the millionaires: "I'm the guy who will give you titles. Yes or yes". And of course 3) only results matter.

He is falling on his sword, sorry.

Ancelotti has to be a demi-god because where Mourinho failed (Champions League with RM: three times, never got to the final), Ancelotti will get to the final (let's see if they bag it) at his *first* attempt...

[TulliusDetritus]

I stick to my prediction: this guy will soon disappear from the map. 2 years maximum. Bookmark it if you want. I will be here [8D]

[TulliusDetritus]

And just for the record, a 0 - 0 draw at home vs a team from the relegation zone. As I told you, this is what happens when you put all your money on defence. It may seem I'm trolling, eh, but there's some rational analysis after all (no crystal ball eh) [8D]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

And just for the record, a 0 - 0 draw at home vs a team from the relegation zone. As I told you, this is what happens when you put all your money on defence. It may seem I'm trolling, eh, but there's some rational analysis after all (no crystal ball eh) [8D]

warspite1

...whereas Real Madrid at home to Mid-table Valencia.... Atletico slipped up earlier in the day giving Real a great chance to snatch back La Liga and........what happened next? [;)]

BTW, I don't know where the word trolling came from - we are just having a robust football debate. It's fun - not trolling.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

And just for the record, a 0 - 0 draw at home vs a team from the relegation zone. As I told you, this is what happens when you put all your money on defence. It may seem I'm trolling, eh, but there's some rational analysis after all (no crystal ball eh) [8D]

warspite1

...whereas Real Madrid at home to Mid-table Valencia.... Atletico slipped up earlier in the day giving Real a great chance to snatch back La Liga and........what happened next? [;)]

BTW, I don't know where the word trolling came from - we are just having a robust football debate. It's fun - not trolling.

If we have to compare, the closest team is Atletico (they also park the bus sometimes). But they still manage to elaborate offensive football when required

The point here is, the opponents park the bus (as Norwich did, and rightly so), now imagine a random Chelsea player: "ok, we have the ball, now what are we going to do? [&:]". The coach hasn't told them what to do: creativity, imagination is not part of the plan. It's some sort of annoying insect.

That's why strikers are vital in Mourinho's squads. His wet dream: a guy (let's say a Drogba) who will grab a header and then score (let's say 1/35 ergo 34/35 are intercepted by the defenders, now that's an exciting, sophisticated football match [:D]).

It may be interesting to note what happened to Argentina in the last WC. They had a Messi on fire... But suffice to say that their brain, engine aka creative player was Mascherano (a destructive midfielder though). In the end they were destroyed by Germany 4 - 0 IIRC.

[TulliusDetritus]

Maybe we should be reading this book [8D]

Soccernomics

"Why do England lose? Why does Scotland suck? Why doesn't America dominate the sport internationally. . .and why do the Germans play with such an efficient but robotic style?

These are questions every soccer aficionado has asked. Soccernomics answers them."

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Are you suggesting a top manager falling out with players is exclusive to Mourinho? Look at Ferguson, look at van Gaal to name but two....

warspite1

....oh and look what's happening with Guardiola and Bayern Munich!!

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
....oh and look what's happening with Guardiola and Bayern Munich!!

The situation at Bayern is rather funny

The guy who hired Guardiola (The Uber Boss Hoeness that is), in prison (a crook, tax evasion) [:D] His Second-in-Command Beckenbauer started to rant against the coach (Guardiola). Then Rummenigge (Third-in-Command?) defended the coach...

Goes to show football is a mad circus. It is. I mean, if this happens in a serious, successful team, imagine what's going on in other unstable, poor teams.

By the way, I love these scandals [:D] Did I mention if before?

But anyways, Guardiola never said he was the best coach in the world. And he's delivered after all: 1 league. And oh, he does not park the bus. He believes in offensive football.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: warspite1
....oh and look what's happening with Guardiola and Bayern Munich!!

The situation at Bayern is rather funny

The guy who hired Guardiola (The Uber Boss Hoeness that is), in prison (a crook, tax evasion) [:D] His Second-in-Command Beckenbauer started to rant against the coach (Guardiola). Then Rummenigge (Third-in-Command?) defended the coach...

Goes to show football is a mad circus. It is. I mean, if this happens in a serious, successful team, imagine what's going on in other unstable, poor teams.

By the way, I love these scandals [:D] Did I mention if before?

But anyways, Guardiola never said he was the best coach in the world. And he's delivered after all: 1 league. And oh, he does not park the bus. He believes in offensive football.

warspite1

He's delivered??? Seriously???

It is rare for Bayern NOT to win the League - hell, at least in Spain its a TWO (currently THREE)-horse race [;)].

Last year Bayern blew away the opposition in the Champions League. What was it? Bayern Munich 7(Seven) - 0(nil) Barcelona in the semi-finals before beating Dortmund in the final.

So, what happened this year? You have given Mourinho no credit whatsoever for taking Inter Milan to the next level (from domestic champions to champions of Europe), but you give Guardiola kudos for making Bayern worse and falling out with all his players just because he plays shexy football.....

[shunwick]

World Cup predictions...

I'm in.

Best wishes,
Steve

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: warspite1
....oh and look what's happening with Guardiola and Bayern Munich!!

The situation at Bayern is rather funny

The guy who hired Guardiola (The Uber Boss Hoeness that is), in prison (a crook, tax evasion) [:D] His Second-in-Command Beckenbauer started to rant against the coach (Guardiola). Then Rummenigge (Third-in-Command?) defended the coach...

Goes to show football is a mad circus. It is. I mean, if this happens in a serious, successful team, imagine what's going on in other unstable, poor teams.

By the way, I love these scandals [:D] Did I mention if before?

But anyways, Guardiola never said he was the best coach in the world. And he's delivered after all: 1 league. And oh, he does not park the bus. He believes in offensive football.

warspite1

He's delivered??? Seriously???

It is rare for Bayern NOT to win the League - hell, at least in Spain its a TWO (currently THREE)-horse race [;)].

Last year Bayern blew away the opposition in the Champions League. What was it? Bayern Munich 7(Seven) - 0(nil) Barcelona in the semi-finals before beating Dortmund in the final.

So, what happened this year? You have given Mourinho no credit whatsoever for taking Inter Milan to the next level (from domestic champions to champions of Europe), but you give Guardiola kudos for making Bayern worse and falling out with all his players just because he plays shexy football.....

He has delivered (to Bayern his past does not matter I guess): one year, one possible Bundesliga Title = taken. Which makes 1/1 (or 1/2 counting the Champions League) Yes, millionaire team obviously... just like Mourinho's teams: 0/2 titles in this his new English adventure (last 4 years global: now yes officially 1/8... looks like his recipe is NOT working anymore eh he he) [;)]

It was said (a rumour I guess) that Chelsea's first choice was Guardiola. And given that the Russian Oligarch had sacked Mourinho precisely because of the miserable small team football, he still hired him again... Double ration of parking the bus for tovarich, please!

A: "Ah, but you assured me you would bring titles with your cheap tactics"
M: "There is a huge conspiracy against me: referees, Platini, I trusted the players but they failed me... er... I'm too good for you! Are you sure you deserve me?"

A great team (Inter) that ends up playing with their striker as a left-back does NOT impress me. No, sir. I don't buy the "win at all cost" thing sorry. I respect much more the Holland side trashed on the 70s or Brazil in 82. Losers, yes, but in the end immortals (to true football fans). And I'm sure you're one of them as I remember very well how you praised the Dutch teams (old WC or EC threads).

[british exil]

It does not really matter who Bayern have as a coach. They seem to dominate the Bundesliga. 51 years Bundesliga 24 titles.http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Bayern_M%C3%BCnchen
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/d ... 34cd7d.png
The page is in german, but the info and charts can be understood by non german speakers.
The english version does not have all the info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Bayern_Munich



By the way if Bayern are in third place during a season, real panic breaks out. The media are always reporting about scandels of players, mostly hyped. The team captain (Lahm) publicly verbally attacks the team/ coach 2011/2013. In the Winter period new players are always bought, they say they have bad players. All of their players play for their National teams. U17 - seniors. So the quality is there.
I often feel that a monkey could train Bayern, the players already know how to play, they have the skill. A good trainer just seems to bring the players together.


I feel a good coach can make a bad team play better, not to win titles, but to improve in their league standings.


Mat

[warspite1]

Football season over blues [:(]

Its the FA Cup this afternoon, Should be looking forward to this great day in the English sporting calendar, but the thought of Arsenal winning a trophy turns my stomach [:@]

COME ON YOU TIGERS!!