Suggestions (or things I can not find)

[Darkbridger]

So after two days of playing, I have yet to complete a game. My first attempt nearly made me uninstall the game. Pirates... dear lord, the Pirates... is the default universe populated by nothing BUT pirates? By the time I encountered my first AI empire, I had encountered probably 6 to 8 pirate factions... clans... whatever they call themselves. The game was anything but fun... let's explore over there... oh look, pirates... ok, let's look over there... oh hey, pirates... how about there... yep, pirates. Come on! I gave up before even getting outside of my own system (I had warp though, just not anything colonizable around). This really should not be your introduction to the game... lower the frequency or suggest a time frame that does not involve so many pirates.

Once I tried a Custom game (where you can indeed adjust the pirates), things were somewhat better. I had most things on auto and/or suggest (except for research). It wasn't long before the pirate spam was replaced by something else. Hey, build these ships... a few seconds later... build these ships!... and just a few seconds later... we know you haven't encountered ANYTHING yet, but you really should build these ships! I soon grew to hate the ship suggestion popup, so I turned ship building to manual... and promptly lost the suggestion thing I was using most... the refit popup. [:@] Why are these two tied to the same AI flag? Please separate them! Unless of course there is a screen somewhere that I have not found where I can do the equivalent of "upgrade everything".

Other observations...

Civilian ships seem to be a colossal waste of time and resources both playing wise and performance wise. They're simply auto-obliterated when a military ship encounters them. They clog up the construction queue endlessly. I'm not sure why this isn't abstracted out to some sort of "trade route" system. Sure, it's more realistic, but I don't see a lot of gain for the added aggravation. I suppose you could assign escorts to them, but that would just clog up an already overwhelmed ship yard, and really pile on the "stuff on screen" issues. Fading isn't enough... I'd prefer to make civilian ships invisible so I can ignore them both visually and mentally.

Ship sizes seem superfluous. Why build an escort when you can build a destroyer? I don't see any advantage to smaller ships at all. Once you can make a bigger ship, build the bigger ship, and then the bigger one after that. A fleet of cruisers is always going to be better than a fleet of mixed hull sizes. Sure, smaller ships are cheaper, but you can only build so many ships at a yard, and they'll die faster, meaning your yard will continually be churning out fodder... and did I mention the civilian ship congestion? Add to that the refit congestion and before long, I stopped building anything except my largest military ship. This does not apply to fighters... fighters seem to be particularly awesome at colony defense, though I have not gotten to the point where I can build Carriers yet.

Construction AI seems to prioritize distance over needed resource, and it should be the opposite. I am not 100% sure of this though... too many distractions in this game. Also, why are stranded/disabled ships not an immediate priority for a construction ship? Next time I will simply manually control this, as well as Exploration, which also seems to be... odd. Fleet AI is even worse. I manually created a fleet of 3 destroyers and at some point later, the AI split it into two fleets, one with 2 ships and 1 with 1? *boggle*

Is there a way to view the resources needed to build something from the research screen (before I research it)? It would be nice to know what weapon tech to start toward based on your starting colony. I might prefer lasers, but if my starting resources lean toward missiles, it would be nice to know that.

Invasions seem to be very tedious. I built 10 troop ships and it took twice as long to fill them with troops as it did to build the ships. [&:] I haven't figured out how to do bombardment yet. Probably because I've only been using lasers and fighters from the weapon tech. Instructing my laser wielding cruiser fleet to attack a planet did nothing beyond destroy the bases around it. I was working on obtaining bomber fighters... hopefully those work on invasions once I build a carrier?

It seems like there may be an enjoyable game here, but boy is it being effectively hidden by the tutorials, default settings and other stuff you point a new player toward.

[elanaagain]

>Yes, I went thru the uber pirate spam. What a waste, agree.
>About ship sizes: you are correct. If only they added a 'to hit' and/or 'change course modification: reasoning? An engine component, or a directional thruster component coasts the same whether installed in a tiny frigate, or a massive capital ship (-ie battleship). So? Well, the same thruster will affect it a tiny ship much quicker than a giant ship. Its basic Newtonian physics. So, either have component size and cost scale with the tonnage of the ship (a pain to implement) or just give ships a modifier that affects how easily they are hit, and how quickly they can jump to sprint, and how quickly they can turn - based on size/tonnage. Use the 'vanilla' ship size categories for the tonnage. Not sure, maybe this could be modded in with the new modding tools?
>I manual everything, and play in a small map (that means size, and density of items, races, colonizable, etc. The way to force some sense into the private sector is to control their ship designs. Also, (as mentioned in the excellent game guldes), don't build space ports at all your colonies. In fact, I do better by only having one (yes one) space port. All the newer colonies get a defense base, with a commerce, mining, recreation/med, cargo, etc. installed. It gets resources off the planet, gives the people some +happiness (med/rec). Best of all, it doesn't create a second 'storage point' for empire resources. If you have two or more Star bases, the AI spends inordinate amount of ship space, fuel, etc, just 'balancing the empire resources between he two star bases. Yuck! Sometimes I inherit a discovered star-base in an asteroid belt. What to do? I don't want my merchant marine shuttling 1/2 my resources to this outpost star base, do I? Almost never... So, build all the ships I need at the new star-base, then destroy it.
> about tech research paths and your starting resources: you will have to manually look at all the components and note the resource costs. Load a game with an advanced empire and make notes.. only way I know to do that.
> Yes, the learning curve is very high for DW. However, I have been playing since it came out - and its still the best sic fi game out there,bar none. But it is 'fussy.' May I suggest you take the time to go to the game guides. Awesome they are - and worth the time to learn (as Kirk said) "how things really work."

[Shark7]

On Civilian ships:

Design your own. You are limited on how many offensive weapons you can put on them, but shields, armor, countermeasures, damage control, repair bots, and defensive weapons (point defense against fighters) are all unlimited. You can even put assault pods on them (which helps against boardings). I think you can even have multiple tractor beams, which helps keep ships with rail guns from getting close.

Also, instead of a laser or rail gun on a civilian ship, consider using ion weapons. They temporarily disable warships giving your freighter a chance to escape.

[pycco]

ORIGINAL: Darkbridger

1.So after two days of playing, I have yet to complete a game. My first attempt nearly made me uninstall the game. Pirates... dear lord, the Pirates... is the default universe populated by nothing BUT pirates? By the time I encountered my first AI empire, I had encountered probably 6 to 8 pirate factions... clans... whatever they call themselves. The game was anything but fun... let's explore over there... oh look, pirates... ok, let's look over there... oh hey, pirates... how about there... yep, pirates. Come on! I gave up before even getting outside of my own system (I had warp though, just not anything colonizable around). This really should not be your introduction to the game... lower the frequency or suggest a time frame that does not involve so many pirates.

2.Once I tried a Custom game (where you can indeed adjust the pirates), things were somewhat better. I had most things on auto and/or suggest (except for research). It wasn't long before the pirate spam was replaced by something else. Hey, build these ships... a few seconds later... build these ships!... and just a few seconds later... we know you haven't encountered ANYTHING yet, but you really should build these ships! I soon grew to hate the ship suggestion popup, so I turned ship building to manual... and promptly lost the suggestion thing I was using most... the refit popup. [:@] Why are these two tied to the same AI flag? Please separate them! Unless of course there is a screen somewhere that I have not found where I can do the equivalent of "upgrade everything".

Other observations...

3.Civilian ships seem to be a colossal waste of time and resources both playing wise and performance wise. They're simply auto-obliterated when a military ship encounters them. They clog up the construction queue endlessly. I'm not sure why this isn't abstracted out to some sort of "trade route" system. Sure, it's more realistic, but I don't see a lot of gain for the added aggravation. I suppose you could assign escorts to them, but that would just clog up an already overwhelmed ship yard, and really pile on the "stuff on screen" issues. Fading isn't enough... I'd prefer to make civilian ships invisible so I can ignore them both visually and mentally.

4.Ship sizes seem superfluous. Why build an escort when you can build a destroyer? I don't see any advantage to smaller ships at all. Once you can make a bigger ship, build the bigger ship, and then the bigger one after that. A fleet of cruisers is always going to be better than a fleet of mixed hull sizes. Sure, smaller ships are cheaper, but you can only build so many ships at a yard, and they'll die faster, meaning your yard will continually be churning out fodder... and did I mention the civilian ship congestion? Add to that the refit congestion and before long, I stopped building anything except my largest military ship. This does not apply to fighters... fighters seem to be particularly awesome at colony defense, though I have not gotten to the point where I can build Carriers yet.

5.Construction AI seems to prioritize distance over needed resource, and it should be the opposite. I am not 100% sure of this though... too many distractions in this game. Also, why are stranded/disabled ships not an immediate priority for a construction ship? Next time I will simply manually control this, as well as Exploration, which also seems to be... odd. Fleet AI is even worse. I manually created a fleet of 3 destroyers and at some point later, the AI split it into two fleets, one with 2 ships and 1 with 1? *boggle*

6.Is there a way to view the resources needed to build something from the research screen (before I research it)? It would be nice to know what weapon tech to start toward based on your starting colony. I might prefer lasers, but if my starting resources lean toward missiles, it would be nice to know that.

7.Invasions seem to be very tedious. I built 10 troop ships and it took twice as long to fill them with troops as it did to build the ships. [&:] I haven't figured out how to do bombardment yet. Probably because I've only been using lasers and fighters from the weapon tech. Instructing my laser wielding cruiser fleet to attack a planet did nothing beyond destroy the bases around it. I was working on obtaining bomber fighters... hopefully those work on invasions once I build a carrier?

It seems like there may be an enjoyable game here, but boy is it being effectively hidden by the tutorials, default settings and other stuff you point a new player toward.

wow what a wall
#1A there pirates by definition there evil. if you don't like them turn them off.

#2A the A.I. will tell you to build ships entell you are almost out of money. to ensure you safety. why they are linked is simple building and retrofitting ships is similar.

#3A dont build so many space sports, it tells the ai to stock pile resources. if you design civilian ships your self they are faster stronger and flee when you choose. imagine having to give orders to 200+ ships to pick up X and drop off X when and where not to mention the amount of needed resources, this would kill the game completely. press D it makes the screens less cluttered also there is a clean galaxy view available from the main menu, also there is another hot key to remove large parts of the UI its T.

#4A ship size is the easiest way to influence speed. you can build ships to fast to catch for hit and run style tactics. bigger is not always the right size for the job.
design ships yourself for better results. design a bigger construction yard to build ships faster. about the civilian ship congestion design them your self if ai designs are ineffective.

#5A no they are going after resources you have the fewest sources of. stranded ships meaning damaged ships, ships with no fuel can still FTL travel. as for ai and fleets i have never used this what i do is auto defensive ships not in a fleet though. i only auto exploring ships it does ok, what the oddities you are seeing is you getting Intel of a area, and the ai goes ok that area is explored even though you only know the basic info for the area.

#6A. component guide to see what components use what resources. the explanation planner shows what resources have a back order as well as # of sources. yes you can tell from research screen i believe not sure though.

#7A. plan ahead, i build almost all troops for invasions at 1 world takes a lot of the micro away. to bombard you need nuclear bombs its under missile tree. i would suggest making a separate design for the roll of bombarding.

[Bingeling]

Pirates are indeed a feature of early shadows (preWarp) games In classic games they are probably still more of a distraction.

It wasn't long before the pirate spam was replaced by something else. Hey, build these ships... a few seconds later... build these ships!... and just a few seconds later... we know you haven't encountered ANYTHING yet, but you really should build these ships! I soon grew to hate the ship suggestion popup, so I turned ship building to manual... and promptly lost the suggestion thing I was using most... the refit popup. Why are these two tied to the same AI flag? Please separate them! Unless of course there is a screen somewhere that I have not found where I can do the equivalent of "upgrade everything".

The AI tries to spend its money. It has an idea on what it should have when it comes to bases and troops, and spend spare money and cashflow on ships. When it builds it has a rule (in empire policy) on percentage of each ship class in its empire. This is stuff that allows the AI to set up its military. Keep in mind that your suggestion is what the AI would do on automation... I often let the AI suggest builds, and build according to the amount suggested. This is not always the same amount as is shown when you open the build order screen. Some of the AI suggestions are plan stupid, like building a troop transport in pre-warp with no known colonies apart from your own.

I often choose to let the AI run certain things. Some things I don't particularly enjoy (ship design, characters), and in other areas I don't want an advantage over my AI opponents (taxes, exploration).

As long as "upgrade everything" means retrofitting your ships, this is not too terribly hard to do manually. I often have my own idea on who to retrofit when, for instance not retrofitting far away exploration ships, not retrofitting all my fleets at once...

Open the ship list. Normal windows multi select works, and I believe ctrl-A selects the whole list. Press retrofit. This is pretty much the same as the AI one, apart from I believe the AI queues the retrofit order, this will interrupt (I think).

You can also ctrl-click to custom a multi selection and shift click on an item to select a range.

Civilian ships seem to be a colossal waste of time and resources both playing wise and performance wise.

Civilian ship breathe life, allows for a realistic movement of resources, and bring you income. Civilians pay you when they build a ship, which can be a significant source of income. Civilian build queues are only a real issue early in the game. The build rush when you get your second colony can be rather significant.

They also give you a reason to "tidy" your systems for things like pirate and wildlife.

Ship sizes seem superfluous. Why build an escort when you can build a destroyer? I don't see any advantage to smaller ships at all.

If I run with AI designs (and I usually do), I never build escort or frigates after the very early game. My main battle fleets run cruisers and carriers (and later capitals). Being more swarm like can be a change of pace, and some speedy long distance ships could be something to try with manual designs.

Construction AI seems to prioritize distance over needed resource, and it should be the opposite. I am not 100% sure of this though... too many distractions in this game. Also, why are stranded/disabled ships not an immediate priority for a construction ship? Next time I will simply manually control this, as well as Exploration, which also seems to be... odd. Fleet AI is even worse. I manually created a fleet of 3 destroyers and at some point later, the AI split it into two fleets, one with 2 ships and 1 with 1? *boggle*

The construction AI does the best it can. I can do better from having different priorities, in particular when it comes to weighting different locations against each other. The AI build by "rules" and they are obvious and silly when you are in extreme cases. Like having 0 steel mines, a steel shortage, and big issues getting a mine up because that require steel. Lets build 5 gas mines or whatever before building a steel one...

I find the best thing to do about stranded ships is to scrap them, and to leave the constructors to build stuff. This is particularly the case in the early game when ships are frequently destroyed and damage, and there i a lot of mines to build.

The AI has its idea of what ships to build (you have noticed that...) and how to set up its fleets. If you have particular ideas about ships to use (no small ones), you should probably not have automatic fleet composition. In general, don't fight an automation.

Is there a way to view the resources needed to build something from the research screen (before I research it)? It would be nice to know what weapon tech to start toward based on your starting colony. I might prefer lasers, but if my starting resources lean toward missiles, it would be nice to know that.

No. But if you got automated design, you ought to research what the AI is set up to use, and this is different from each race. One way to figure out what it will use is to check the Empire Policy Screen. In the research section there are tech focuses given. The 4th and 5th (last two) tech focuses are two weapon techs. These are what the AI focuses on in designs, and are set there to focus AI weapon research on those two weapons.

Invasions seem to be very tedious. I built 10 troop ships and it took twice as long to fill them with troops as it did to build the ships. I haven't figured out how to do bombardment yet. Probably because I've only been using lasers and fighters from the weapon tech. Instructing my laser wielding cruiser fleet to attack a planet did nothing beyond destroy the bases around it. I was working on obtaining bomber fighters... hopefully those work on invasions once I build a carrier?

10 troop ships is a lot in the early game. I usually automate empty troop ships as they are quite good at picking up troops, and add them to manual fleets when they are full. When they empty (at invasion) I often have them leave the fleet and automate them.

There is a specific weapon branch for bombard weapons. I am not sure all races actually use them in their AI designs.

Bombers (fighters) are only for ship (and base) combat. They make the fighters pack a good punch when they attack in numbers.

It seems like there may be an enjoyable game here, but boy is it being effectively hidden by the tutorials, default settings and other stuff you point a new player toward.

You need to figure out what is fun for you, and you seem to be on your way.