Counter-Factual Fiction Books - NATO vs. Russia/WW3

[Dabo]

Loved the 6th battle although an healthy dose of suspension of disbelief is needed: a single CV battle group against pretty much the whole Russian feet and the whole long range naval aviation in…. South Africa.

I didn’t like Arc light much: 2000 nukes had detonated over the US and pretty much everything goes on normally, two US corps conquer Russia in a fortnight with the Russians not firing a single 1kt arty round. Nuclear warheads disabled in flight and BTW they should have had impeached the second president not the first for clear and present idiocy.

On a similar topic Thrinity’s Child by William Prochnau is much better, scary as hell (there was an HBO movie based on the book called By dawn’s early light)

[mikeCK]

ORIGINAL: hawkeye_de

Has somebody already read the 'Fourth Crisis', The battle for Taiwan? http://www.amazon.de/Fourth-Crisis-The-Battle-Taiwan-ebook/dp/B00B1MR7P2/ref=pd_sim_kinc_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=1S3B8PBJQ4A6VJDNN3M2

Yeah, it's garbage. Oddly written as well

[CurraheeMatrix]

I think I have read the vast majority of 'WWIII literature' out there.

Red Storm Rising - one of my favorites. Like any good Command/Harpoon player I have read it at least six times (and I'm not even out of High School yet...)
The War that Never Was - excellent (and detached - I prefer stories about global war to exclude romance) story of naval warfare in the 1989 time frame(I think - some things in it however weren't in existence until 1991, like the SLAM-ER)
The Third World War - dated, written back in the 70s, but still good, chilling, and authentic. Even if it is older than me.
Cheiftains - decent until the end. Really? A Nuke? That's how your going to end the story? How about I burn the book? That would convey the same effect. And the author believes too much in the power of artillery. I mean, he has like half of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment wiped out by concentrated artillery fire. And he thinks all Americans are idiotic Custer-like commanders - which is understandable, I guess, since the writer is British.
Arc Light - scary nuclear warfare scenario, and then we invade Russia and somehow make the surrender. Now, I believe in the power of the US military as much as any other American, but the conquest of Russia seemed a bit...quick. Of course, the bulk of Russia's army was trapped in the East by radiation zones, so maybe it's not too implausible.
Protect And Defend - We (NATO, if I recall) defend Siberia from China after anarchists topple the Russian gov't. It was a little far fetched.
The Red Effect Series - Cheiftans 2.0 (w/out the stupid ending). Little naval combat, however, but since I am mainly a ground warfare guy I liked it. It chronicles the Soviet invasion of Western Europe in 1984. It is a very good series and I recommend it.
Red Army - a good story from the other side. Yeah, the sovs make all the breaks it seems, but that was kind of the point of the story. Made me glad that the war never went hot.
When Angels Wept - a counter-factual history of the Cuban Missile Crisis. I was disappointed the author seemed to want to devote 2/3 of the book to biographies of Kennedy and Khrushchev, but in the actual nuclear war part, it was authentic and frightening. Recommended.
Red Thrust - less a story than an hard core analysis of the Red Army, but still a good and realistic read.
Red Phoenix - good story of the NKs invasion of the south in 1988(?).
The Sixth battle - as mentioned before in this thread, another classic. It deals mostly with naval warfare. I wanted to kill the national security adviser however ("These world wide soviet naval deployments to cut off South Africa from the world and take it over are in no way threatening! We should take no action until it is too late so we can lose a carrier battle group to the entire concentrated forces of the soviet navy!") Oh, has anyone noticed how the author links his book to Red Phoenix by mentioning the F-16 pilot from that book?
Thunder of Erebus - now the superpowers want Antarctica. I haven't read it yet, but from flipping through it is seems a little fanciful - F-15Gs, soviet cruise missiles carrying torpedoes, magic mineral that zaps ICBMs. Heck, the Aurora conspiracy plane even makes an appearance.
Fourth Crisis - I wouldn't say it's garbage. I mean, it is an ebook, but it wasn't idiotic. Maybe some things were convenient (like the nuke threat at the end) but it was worth whatever I paid for it - which was less that $3.00 if I recall.
Red Tide: Chinese Invasion of Seattle - The first book was surprisingly good and actually made me think the Chinese could plausibly pull it off. Then the author wanted you to believe that a rag tag team of about ten escaped US Army Rangers could defang the entire Chinese perimeter, sink a Chinese amphibious ship, and liberate a college campus. And he has the 7th Infantry Division, equipped solely with .22 rifles and shotguns, somehow hold off a Chinese armored battalion. Sure, they suffered like 90% casualties, but still...
First Clash - the absolute finest book on modern (fictional) ground warfare I have ever read. Recommended, but only if you like land warfare and can pay attention to what is actually happening - it took me a few reads to truly appreciates its beauty.

I have exhausted my immediate knowledge of WWIII literature, and its late where I live. Btw, has anyone read Choke Point, First Salvo, or Show of Force by Charles Taylor? Are they any good?

[Gunner98]

And the author believes too much in the power of artillery

And what's wrong with that![;)][:D]

First Clash - the absolute finest book on modern (fictional) ground warfare I have ever read. Recommended, but only if you like land warfare and can pay attention to what is actually happening - it took me a few reads to truly appreciates its beauty.

I remember reading that when it was a training pub issued to all officers going through their training (Cdn) but that was a couple years ago..[8|]. Very chilling when your reading your job description..

B

[CurraheeMatrix]

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

And the author believes too much in the power of artillery

And what's wrong with that![;)][:D]

First Clash - the absolute finest book on modern (fictional) ground warfare I have ever read. Recommended, but only if you like land warfare and can pay attention to what is actually happening - it took me a few reads to truly appreciates its beauty.

I remember reading that when it was a training pub issued to all officers going through their training (Cdn) but that was a couple years ago..[8|]. Very chilling when your reading your job description..

B

1. Point taken...but the writer still has it seem that the Russians don't need T-72s or fighter jets - they just need a whole lot of BM-21s, Smerches, and Gvodikas, and commence a rolling barrage to the Rhine. And some body bags to clean up the mess. Well, maybe more like the 3rd Guards Shock Broom and Dustpan Army, considering the effects of artillery on the human body.

2. I think they even wrote sequel, with Canadian super tanks (the Chimera - bonus points to anyone who knows what that actually is) and Leopard 2s - late cold war stuff- but it unfortunately was never published for the public. But yes, the original was written, well, like a field manual. Didn't stop them from mass marketing it.[:'(]

[Gunner98]

with Canadian super tanks (the Chimera - bonus points to anyone who knows what that actually is

The Chimera was a fictional Tank Destroyer based on Leopard 1 chassis and a Leopard 2 gun. The fictional Corps we used for Staff exercises back then (Corps 86), had a Divisional Anti-Tank Battalion, with two Companies of TOW launchers under armour and one company of TD's, I think it had 16, can't really remember. Problem is that it was a fish our of water and we never really had a doctrinal (and certainly not a financial) reason for it.

B

[CurraheeMatrix]

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

with Canadian super tanks (the Chimera - bonus points to anyone who knows what that actually is

The Chimera was a fictional Tank Destroyer based on Leopard 1 chassis and a Leopard 2 gun. The fictional Corps we used for Staff exercises back then (Corps 86), had a Divisional Anti-Tank Battalion, with two Companies of TOW launchers under armour and one company of TD's, I think it had 16, can't really remember. Problem is that it was a fish our of water and we never really had a doctrinal (and certainly not a financial) reason for it.

B

Well, I walked right into that one. Probably should have noticed the Canadian flag...
Anyway, '5 points' awarded...although something tells me you could take me to school on anything to do with the Cold War. [:)]

[Gunner98]

[;)]Sorry bout that. Just retired out of uniform, almost 38 yrs. My last job was teaching at our Army staff College [X(]. Oh, and I was artillery[:)] hence the 'Gunner' in the name.

I think the sequel you spoke about a couple of posts back is 'Crisis in Zefra'. It not as good in my opinion and paints a different type of conflict. Its available public domain.

http://www.kschroeder.com/foresight-con ... efra-e.pdf

This may not be the one your thinking about, but if you have a title I can see if its around. None of that stuff is classified and it was meant to be widely read.

B

[CurraheeMatrix]

That...would...be...awesome.[&o]

I think it was called "Counterstroke," and it was written by Kenneth Macksey, same guy who wrote "First Clash." (and on an unrelated note, the fictional book about operation Sea lion getting the go ahead - "Invasion!" if I recall).
When I say that there was sequel to FC, I wanted to get it, but I discovered it was out of my reach. If you could change that, I would love it. And if you can't, thanks for the offer anyway.[:)]

[Gunner98]

I can't seem to find it online either. I'll check the Army Library tomorrow.

B

[Gunner98]

The book is 'Counterstroke', it (as well as First Clash) is Edited by Kenneth Macksey. Actually written collaboratively by the forerunner to our current Directorate of Army Doctrine (DAD). I don't have a publication date but the librarian and I both think it was late 80's probably 89, 90. The production code on it is B-GL-309-007/FT-001 (that translates to Army Library, Command series) it doesn't seem that it went into as wide a publication as First Clash. There does not appear to be an electronic copy on file but they are looking for one. They have two physical copies, one English, one French - that's it. I don't think I've read this one before so I'll give it a go. I think it was probably dumped as part of the 'Peace Dividend'! Shame.

I'll let you know how it is, and I'll keep looking.

B

[CurraheeMatrix]

Thanks for looking! I didn't know it was limited to two copies in the world...well, one for me. Foreign language is not my specialty.
Again, thank for taking the time to dig this up!

[Alex170g]

I've finished reading 6th battle.

Things that I learned

1. Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam and Russia can join to fight a war, even if it's not clear why.[&:]
2. Russian doctrine for night cv landings is land it or crash it, it does not matter what the manual says.[8D]
3. The fastest way for a CV to break contact with enemy's SSNs is to nuke them.[:-]
4. One method to sink a modern CVs sorrounded by multiple defense capable russian ships is to do bomb runs, just like in WWII, but with help from a jammer aircraft.[&o]
5. If you are the cap'tain of a CV and it was sunk in battle, you can become vice-president of your country, but you can elect to fly one of your aircraft and suicide with it.[X(]
6. If you are with the bad guys duds and bad luck will be the norm.[>:]

I enjoyed to read it, and if you haven´t read it yet, give it a try, it's a good book.[:D], appart from this, the rest is very realistic. well, except blip enhacers, but the author didn`t know that when the book was written.