Scenario Ideas

[ChrisMaiorana]

Any thoughts on what scenario you'd like to see developed? I will try to work up a custom map and scenario if there is a consensus around something?

[ulisin]

desert scenarios!
Zidi bou zid
Kasserine pass

Gazala?

ANZIO, german counterattack
Salerno, german counterattack

... Cassino, 1^ and "^ battle

Sicily

[Phoenix100]

That latest Stalingrad map looks excellent, Cap. I'm with Ulisin for Desert Scenarios, but I also like to play battles on great, detailed maps, and the desert tends to be a bit ....well...blank, 'desert-like'. But, whatever you choose I would love it to be something for which you have available detailed historical sources for the map and OOB. How about Prochorowka? There are many books detailing parts of it, I think. Big, decisive battle that was more or less evenly balanced.
Which of your many excellent scenarios would you say has the most detailed, historically accurate map, by the way?

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: CapHillrat

Any thoughts on what scenario you'd like to see developed? I will try to work up a custom map and scenario if there is a consensus around something?

How about the Nazi invasion of Norway?

It's the earliest West Front seaborne campaign I can recall and it lies outside the "usual" WWII campaign explorations.

[ubiquitous]

Not so much a scenario idea, but I think it would be great to have a sequence of scenarios in a kind of mini campaign that together tell the story of some part of the war.

A Dunkirk scenario in which allied forces have to occupy some objectives for as long as they can in the face of overwhelming odds before retreating to an exit point on the coast might offer a bit of interesting variety. Planning a managed retreat seems like it would be as interesting and challenging as running a full on attack/defence.

The invasion of Poland seems to be another neglected episode. In general, working on early war scenarios would have the side-effect that we might end up with an estab that properly depicts early war units.

Like jim I had contemplated doing something in Norway. I found some great old maps of Trondheim. The one attached predates WW2 but is gorgeous. A quick Google image search reveals others that appear to have WW2 era military markings.

[ChrisMaiorana]

Hi Phoenix. Riga, Taganrog, Perekop, Rostov are all traces of Soviet Army maps.

For my smaller platoon scenarios Kekava, Komarovka are traces of a Google map. Both are in areas that have changed very little since the war.

My western front maps for Moselle and Champs are hand drawn, as is the Piercing the Gothic Line map (the name escapes me). For my MG scenario Fight for Best I edited an existing map adding some detail not included in Panther map and for the Lion Route I just cropped an existing map.

Thanks all for your suggestions. I will start to do some research and see which one will work. I like the desert ideas but I worry I might overlap with something in the upcoming Med pack. I believe they've mentioned some North Africa scenarios is that correct?

Ubiquitous, I haven't played all of the Greek pack scenarios, but "A Clean Break" is one scenario that covers a fighting withdrawal by some Australian units I believe. I like it a lot and might look into your Dunkirk idea or some other fighting retreat.

[dazkaz15]

There are some excellent suggestions above [&o]
I don't have time to play any new content at the moment, but really admire the effort you put into your scenarios Cap.

One day I will have the time though, so something for me to look forward to [:)]

[simovitch]

Wait for the updated estabs for Greece and North Africa. We made a few changes that may not be compatible with 3rd party scenarios made with the current Greek estabs. Owners of the Greek pack will be able to patch up to the new estabs.

Why not a quick 1-2 day historical Normandy airborne drop scenario? I would like to see how that plays out.

[ulisin]

desert scenarios: panther can answer you.

With COTA there are POE scenarios
- sidi rezegh (op crusader)
- bir el gobi (op crusader)

- Mersa el Brega (rommel arrives in africa)
- operation brevity / battleaxe
- gabr saleh
- Beda fomm
(I hope we will have them in med pack)

But Kasserine or Zid bou zid could be very funny! An army at dawn!

Norway scenarios are depicted in COTA, too

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: ulisin

With COTA there are POE scenarios
- sidi rezegh (op crusader)
- bir el gobi (op crusader)

These were not POE/Ivanmoe scenarios, these were original COTA dev team scenarios that came with a COTA patch. They have been slightly re-worked for the newer BFTB engine and will be in the Med Pack.

- Mersa el Brega (rommel arrives in africa)
- operation brevity / battleaxe
- gabr saleh
- Beda fomm

These are POE/Ivanmoe scenarios that have been significantly re-worked and playtested for the Med Pack.

[ChrisMaiorana]

Simovitch so it sounds like the desert is well covered. Or is there one battle (or a slice of a battle) you wish someone would work on there? with ubi doing the d-day landings it is looking like Sicily or Italy would be new ground (ive done one gothic line scenario)

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: simovitch

ORIGINAL: ulisin

With COTA there are POE scenarios
- sidi rezegh (op crusader)
- bir el gobi (op crusader)

These were not POE/Ivanmoe scenarios, these were original COTA dev team scenarios that came with a COTA patch. They have been slightly re-worked for the newer BFTB engine and will be in the Med Pack.

- Mersa el Brega (rommel arrives in africa)
- operation brevity / battleaxe
- gabr saleh
- Beda fomm

These are POE/Ivanmoe scenarios that have been significantly re-worked and playtested for the Med Pack.

Hey sim, speaking of COTA, I haven't yet picked up the Command Ops version, but the description and scenario list on the Matrix sales page doesn't list my old favorite scenario (Malta) as being included in the new version.

Is it there and just not listed, or was it dropped when the old COTA was ported over to Command Ops?

[ubiquitous]

ORIGINAL: CapHillrat

Simovitch so it sounds like the desert is well covered. Or is there one battle (or a slice of a battle) you wish someone would work on there? with ubi doing the d-day landings it is looking like Sicily or Italy would be new ground (ive done one gothic line scenario)

Don't feel like I am monopolising D-Day! It strikes me that with landings on five beaches and a whole lot of action taking place in Normandy over the following few weeks there is the potential to have a pretty cool multi-scenario campaign set during this period. I see we already have Utah beach, Omaha beach, St Lo, Operation Epsom, and maybe other pieces in place. There might be some merit in trying to string everything together.

Actually, looking at a map, I see that it would be possible to fit a sizable chunk of the Normandy campaign onto an area covered by two CO:BftB maps. Given two such maps, one could crop out the areas needed for given campaign scenarios...

In the manual it says that the max map size is 2000km^2. Does anyone know if there are further restrictions--e.g. can one make a 100kmx20km map or does the engine not like very wide maps? A map of those kind of dimensions would actually fit all of the Normandy beaches.

[ChrisMaiorana]

50x50km is restriction i think

[Phoenix100]

Hans, Malta is coming in the med pack

Thanks Caphill for all the map info - much appreciated. And thanks again for your work, especially with the EF scenarios. They're all great, I think. I've played through Taganrog several times now, as Axis, never getting anywhere near a win.

Now that it's suggested, I too would love to see Normandy scenarios. How about 'closing the pocket' dealing with the end of the battle of Normandy in August 44 when the Poles and Canadians nipped the neck at Falaise?

[Fred Sanford]

Once the Med pack comes out, I'd like to see later desert battles. Gazala would be a good one IMO. Most of that battle took place west of the Crusader operation, but still could use some of the current Med Pack maps.

One huge hole in the engine that would impact desert scenarios is the absence of mines. As a work-around, say an impassable (or very slow movement) "Minefield" terrain type that could represent the huge fields laid was used. If a cleared lane is needed to simulate a minefield forcing operation, the map could have "blown" bridge crossings going across the minefield at various potential locations. An engineer unit could come up, and "clear and mark" the lane by pretending the "build bridge" command is actually ordering the clearing operation, and the 'bridge' in the engineer unit represents mineclearing equipment. Once the bridge is built/lane cleared, other units may cross the minefield via the "cleared lane".

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: CapHillrat

Simovitch so it sounds like the desert is well covered. Or is there one battle (or a slice of a battle) you wish someone would work on there? with ubi doing the d-day landings it is looking like Sicily or Italy would be new ground (ive done one gothic line scenario)

We have most of April-November 1941 covered, except for the battles around Tobruk. Operation Compass could use more coverage prior to Beda Fomm.

There will be 3 seperate Malta scenarios in the Med Pack. Also the German invasion of Leros, and of course all the Crete scenarios.

[Werewolf13]

Darn - all these great ideas! I'm almost embarassed to suggest Operation Cobra - the Normandy invasion breakout plan. Seems ripe for some what if scenarios as well as being small enough I believe to easily fill a campaign.

[ubiquitous]

I have started working on a Dieppe map. I have some very detailed topo maps to work with, so I am hoping that I can make an extremely detail map of this area. It's still early days...

[jimcarravall]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: simovitch

ORIGINAL: ulisin

With COTA there are POE scenarios
- sidi rezegh (op crusader)
- bir el gobi (op crusader)

These were not POE/Ivanmoe scenarios, these were original COTA dev team scenarios that came with a COTA patch. They have been slightly re-worked for the newer BFTB engine and will be in the Med Pack.

- Mersa el Brega (rommel arrives in africa)
- operation brevity / battleaxe
- gabr saleh
- Beda fomm

These are POE/Ivanmoe scenarios that have been significantly re-worked and playtested for the Med Pack.

Hey sim, speaking of COTA, I haven't yet picked up the Command Ops version, but the description and scenario list on the Matrix sales page doesn't list my old favorite scenario (Malta) as being included in the new version.

Is it there and just not listed, or was it dropped when the old COTA was ported over to Command Ops?

The old COTA scenarios were split into two, Battles for Greece (originally known as Greek Pack) and Med Pack.

Malta is covered in the Med Pack.