[REL Beta] [Shadows] Star Trek - The Picard Era

[stanstill]

hey i wonder if you will be adding star trek buildings i have already added the great hall and plan on adding
the Romulan hall of state star fleet academy and pjem monastery star fleet headquarters and federation council building

[ehsumrell1]

Hello Stanstill;

I'm sure Igard has those same ideas on his radar screen for the Universe upgrade
now that those items are moddable. Especially for his total conversion versions.
Please remember, all of the previous mod creators are probably digesting the
Universe modding guide like everyone else and will be taking a bit of time to
restructure and test their mods before putting them back up for the public. In
addition, once they do, ANYONE, can modify the mods to their own preference and
hearts content!
[:)]

[tjhkkr]

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

Hello Stanstill;

Please remember, all of the previous mod creators are probably digesting the
Universe modding guide like everyone else and will be taking a bit of time to
restructure and test their mods before putting them back up for the public.[:)]

Or stealing ale from one-another[:D]

[ehsumrell1]

Well TJ, you of all folks know it takes a LOT of planning and engineering
to build an android-proof cargo bay!

[&:]

[Beastro]

ORIGINAL: crazyewok

Yeah been looking at the game and see what you mean how you cant really to a Ent through to DS9 Era mod......

Thing is I dont think it would be too hard for the developer to tweak that.

Dont know if this as been raised with the developer?

It would make finacial sense as doing so and allowing a Ent through to DS9 mod would basicaly make the best grand Strategy startrek game out there and porentialy bring ina few hundred more customers.

What you're basically laying out is a sequel to Birth of the Federation, a game that was simple in design and riddled with bugs (The memory leak forced me to stop playing it in 2000 after months of playing it) but fun as hell in small doses and one that many have been waiting to be picked up again ever since the first one came out in 1999.

Once I realized this game had mods after hearing about it yesterday I realized that all it needs is an era upgrading mechanic to introduce new ship models and weapons and retire old ones as you climb the tech tree and you pretty much have BotF2 only with a depth of gameplay that makes the original look like a mobile game in comparison.

[Beastro]

New to this game, but very interested in this mod and it's coming to DW Universe. Might finally be the successor to Birth of the Federation I've been waiting for for a decade and a half.

Haven't worked through this thread, but this pic caught my eye:

ORIGINAL: Igard

My Federation Fleet in all its glory.

(in reply to Igard)
[Send Private Message]

Bear with me not playing this game much yet and not knowing what combat is like, just going on what the listed classes typical do universally in both real life and most space/naval games. Just giving some helpful insight and recommendations.

Shouldn't the Nova replace the Oberth as science vessel? That was its role and its replacement.

Also the Constellations were older ships and not that powerful, essentially a successor to the Miandas (Reliant from Wrath of Khan) and aged between Kirk and Picards times. Maybe have them be the fast frigates (or the Prometheus since it's a newer class being introduced towards the end of this time frame)with the Akira becoming the destroyer (In this time frame weren't all extant Excelsiors refit by then? IIRC from reading fluff years ago fighting insomnia they were only retained in minor roles up to and during the Dominion War keep fleet numbers up for patrolling and escort until newer classes entered service, having them be heavy frigs could reflect their new role being lesser important ships, but still powerful, though obsolescent - a modern equivalent being keeping older battleship and armoured cruisers around for convoy escorting during the World Wars).

Akira's weren't small ships and were built to fill out the "cruiser" role in Star Fleet to use modern naval terminology being medium tier ships meant to form the bulk of battlefleets.

For Torpedo Frigate replace the Nova with the Steamrunner. It's an official design and was already being used in that role for the Armada games.

Maybe have the fast frigate be the Prometheus class (noted for being the fastest class in Starfleet by Voyagers time), the heavy frigate be the Excelsior refit reflecting it's reduced importance in this timeframe, trop frigate be the Steamrunner, Destroyer be Akria, Nova replace Oberth as Science vessel and the heavy destroyer be something like the Cheyenne class which was made using a reduced sized Galaxy saucer with quad nacelles slapped on the back. Looks like I can't post links yet, but just look it up on MemoryAlpha.

Did you grab the Yamato model from Starfleet Command? Been ages since I played that game but I think that's the Midway "Dreadnought" class. Always loved that design and wished they'd incorporated it into the TV series'.

[Beastro]

ORIGINAL: Igard

Cool screenshot!

I think it's very difficult to make a good Star Trek movie in todays world. If you look at the projects the writers and JJ Abrams have been involved in recently, it's pretty obvious these guys are all about creating style over substance material. "Into Darkness" will have our crew sporting leather jackets and acting all "Dark". Pretty much the Christopher Nolan trend these days. Like I say, I'll give it a chance, but it needs a good story and for NuUhura and NuScotty to stop being annoying.

Television is completetly different though. People don't want to tune in week in week out to dark and dreary stuff. BSG got away with it because it put some excellent characters in place right from the beginning with lots of mystery surrounding the cylons. Stargate Universe tried to follow the same style, and failed because the characters were shallow and the premise was simplistic.

I think there's still a market for Star Trek, but the franchise needs to get its hands dirty a bit and follow in DS9s
footsteps with the universe been less optimistic and spotless, at least on the Federations side of thing.

The other issue I think is how triumphalist the series has become with the Federation going from being in a universe of equally powerful and ideologically varied rivals and enemies to becoming essentially the superpower of the Alpha Quadrant (if not also the Beta) with all rivals either now allies (Klingons) broken and beaten (Romulands and Carassians) or checked and kept at bay regularly (The Borg).

I think it's time the Federation gets taken down a notch and, in following with the franchises theme of reflecting the era it's being made in, have things show what things have become like in the Post-Cold War world where we realize NATO and the US haven't won the End of History and not only has our power projection began to decline, but the drive to maintain it. Have the Federation in the Post-Dominion War be rife with disillusionment over the fact that the foundational ethics of the Fed failed to protect them when faced with the threat of the Dominion and it had to come to using a weapon of mass destruction to end a war they were going to lose. On top of that integrate how fanatically the Prime Directive has become (like the worst moments of Voyager reflect) where the people of the Fed have gone using it as an ethical tool to viewing it as a piece of dogma that must be obeyed (according to their own situational interpretation of it, of course).

Maybe have a break off faction of humans who reject the Socialist Utopia and want to return to a less perfect way of less that has more meaning formed around Dominion War vets or their children who embrace a more ruthless, rough around the edges humanity that has only it's interests at heart but isn't completely cold hearted (Essentially, a Liberal Democracy of today that is kind but never sacrifices its well being if national interests, if not national survival are at stake).

The one thing about Abrams stupid little reboot and the even worse Nemesis did is it sets up a perfect situation for such a situation to take place with the Romulans providing these break away humans with aid to get back at the Federation for screwing them over and costing them their homeworld. The Star Empire was coming around to being friendly with the Federation due to the events in Nemesis, but then next thing we know Spock, a Vulcan is off to save Romulus and then vanishes and leaving the Romulans with the heart of their society and empire gutted when their home sun goes Nova, something they'll point the finger at the Fed for.

Have the rebel humans show their ruthlessness by using relativistic kill vehicles to win their independence from a Federation already war weary and torn over preventing these people from succeeding for using force to keep them as part of the Fed, then have them go around working to undo the Federations works, encouraging races to stop acting more like them, humans, and be more themselves, the Klingons go back to being more bellicose, autocratic bullies, the Ferengi return to their misogynistic, ruthless roots, the Romulans becoming more active and scheming. Break up thre Federation hegemony, but don't present it completely has a rebellion against Roddenberry's whole intent behind Star Trek, just show it being more flawed with the Federation after the Dominion losing its way and the rebel humans trying to balance holding true to being fully human (not repressed idiots convinced they've evolved beyond human nature like the cast of TNG was presented as in the first two seasons at Roddenberrys insistence until he fortunately died and let saner minds take the reins) warts and all allowing the series to return to its roots exploring the human condition and trying to improve ourselves, not being smug, self-righteous dicks as they'd become by Voyager (and Enterprise, but that reflects the progression of the franchise linearly).

I'm certainly going to try to reflect this once this mod is carried over to Universe where I'll learn to mod this game enough to change one of the factions into that rebel human power (Eyeing up the Remans for that scanning the list of races on the OP).

[imdahman]

Just found out about this game and this mod! I'm really excited to get it going with DW:U. I do have a quick questions

1. Any chance you put the Hirogen in from ST:Voyager? Maybe as a pirate race?
2. How are the Borg handled? NPC race? 'Obstacle'?
3. How easy will it be to transport in other ship designs?
- IE I'd like to add a Miranda-class vessel as a Frigate, and probably a Prometheus in some fashion (if they aren't already there).

Let me say thanks in advance for the great work you obviously put into this mod. I'm really looking forward to getting it going with DW:U!!

[valance]

I must be doing something terribly wrong as I cant get this mod to work.

I install the mods in the files as directed but when I launch the game (using steam) I see a brief flicker of the launch screen as it boots up and then nothing. I get an error something along the lines that it cant load 22 races.png

Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?


Thanks for help,

Valance

[imdahman]

Are you using DW: Universe? Because this mod is for upto Shadows - and it's not compatible with Universe because of the drastic change they made to the game and adding full mod support.

[ehsumrell1]

ORIGINAL: valance

I must be doing something terribly wrong as I cant get this mod to work.

I install the mods in the files as directed but when I launch the game (using steam) I see a brief flicker of the launch screen as it boots up and then nothing. I get an error something along the lines that it cant load 22 races.png

Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?


Thanks for help,

Valance

Hello Valence, and welcome to the forums.
Igard's Star Trek - The Picard Era mod is currently not compatible with the Universe expansion.
I assisted him in the development of this mod and I am patiently awaiting word from him to continue
progress on it since I have the files. Hopefully I will hear from him soon. If not, I will complete
the adaptation work and get it running, hopefully with his permission (out of respect) and full credit where
credit is due. The mod has over 500 actual characters and much tweaking needs to be done.
In addition, there are a few minor things that need to be added that could not be done before (such as upward scaling of Borg cubes, etc.).

In addition, more races have been requested to be added, Hirogen, Species 8472, and others I may look
into. Plus, Igard has a Star Trek Total Conversion addition he's possibly working on to adapt as well
which affects and alters the UI, Planets, etc. Keep tuned for news here!
[:)]

[valance]

Thank you for the response. I guess I need to use the none-steam games. I greatly appreciate the work. And look forward excitedly to the update.

[Carl4243]

Thanks for the Info, I'm eagerly awaiting a compatible version, for years now i been ONLY playing this mod, i am not looking forward to playing default DW:U lol!! i love my Trek

[Varlun]

Igard, what gives? I'm not gonna go on any sort of rant, just let it be known that I'm upset that you didn't let the Star Trek Universe guy use your stuff- AT LEAST until you have something of your own to present! What a dick move really. I understand it being your property and all but you could have waited until you had an updated version. Instead, now all of these newcomers don't really have an option. For how long?

Eh whatever, not gonna get too worked up over it. I still have his mod on my hard drive.

[Osito]

ORIGINAL: Varlun

Igard, what gives? I'm not gonna go on any sort of rant, just let it be known that I'm upset that you didn't let the Star Trek Universe guy use your stuff- AT LEAST until you have something of your own to present! What a dick move really. I understand it being your property and all but you could have waited until you had an updated version. Instead, now all of these newcomers don't really have an option. For how long?

Eh whatever, not gonna get too worked up over it. I still have his mod on my hard drive.

I think that's unfair. While I would like to see a Universe Star Trek mod developed, Gyromancer did admit that he did not having permission to use Igard's work, and that is a fairly fundamental flaw. My own view is that you shouldn't use other's work without getting permission, or at least do everything possible to secure permission (or otherwise).

Having said that, given that Igard is still clearly active, I do think it would be helpful if he would indicate whether he is updating this mod, and, if so, let us know what the scope of that update will be. That will help to prevent others working on duplicate material that turns out to be redundant. For example, I am working on a galaxy map (with a vast amount of data collected over the past few months), which could very easily be a 'Star Trek' galaxy map, but I could just ignore that aspect and do it as a 'real' galaxy map. I'd prefer not to spend time making it into a Star Trek map, if the work has already been done elsewhere.

Osito

[ehsumrell1]

ORIGINAL: Osito

ORIGINAL: Varlun

Igard, what gives? I'm not gonna go on any sort of rant, just let it be known that I'm upset that you didn't let the Star Trek Universe guy use your stuff- AT LEAST until you have something of your own to present! What a dick move really. I understand it being your property and all but you could have waited until you had an updated version. Instead, now all of these newcomers don't really have an option. For how long?

Eh whatever, not gonna get too worked up over it. I still have his mod on my hard drive.

I think that's unfair. While I would like to see a Universe Star Trek mod developed, Gyromancer did admit that he did not having permission to use Igard's work, and that is a fairly fundamental flaw. My own view is that you shouldn't use other's work without getting permission, or at least do everything possible to secure permission (or otherwise).

Having said that, given that Igard is still clearly active, I do think it would be helpful if he would indicate whether he is updating this mod, and, if so, let us know what the scope of that update will be. That will help to prevent others working on duplicate material that turns out to be redundant. For example, I am working on a galaxy map (with a vast amount of data collected over the past few months), which could very easily be a 'Star Trek' galaxy map, but I could just ignore that aspect and do it as a 'real' galaxy map. I'd prefer not to spend time making it into a Star Trek map, if the work has already been done elsewhere.

Osito

@Osito
Thanks for your understanding on this matter and your response Osito. It's about principle.
Igard and I (with certain others with a minor role) spent months creating Star Trek Themed mods for
Legends and Shadows. Much of the work was in the fine-tuning of the themes, collecting images and
permission for use of the images directly, working around MANY of the issues that NOW have been solved
by Elliot opening up most of the text files for modification. Igard wanted as close to canon themes as
DW would allow, and spent months achieving that. I personally added statistics and touch-up work to over
500 actual Star Trek characters (We didn't have the option of randomization for character role stats(?)
or appearance order randomization (-) then). We couldn't ship scale cube or odd shaped vessels (thus no
true to scale sized Borg Cubes or Species 8472 Bioships). SO imagine now when Igard looks up and returns
to the forum to see that his work has been basically 'hi-jacked' (my term, not his) without his permission
(which basically is a unwritten rule in modding) although I do credit Gyrospeck in stating that and mentioning
us in his credits. Although I was never asked either if the first 240 characters in the mod I provided could
be used (just FYI, those are the original 'draft' characters that have been redone, there are 520 in the 'true'
mod). So yes, I understand the desire of wanting to have A Star Trek Theme for Universe. But using work
that someone else has provided without permission and then mod that away from the initial idea and desire
of the originator is not fair. In closing, Igard's original 'Star Trek The Picard Era' aka 'STPE' is alive
and well, operational for Universe, and updated to version 1.9.5.2 of DW: Universe. It is being tested by
a couple members of the dev team and when it error free, easily up-datable, and has the required content and
art it will be released (which is at Igards' discretion). We don't, and didn't want to put out a project with
oft-occuring errors or problems after a DW update. In addition, the original was not playable with the storylines
active (i.e. no Shakturi/Mechanoids), this version you have your choice.

@Varlun
In response to your negatively toned post and name-calling, that is your prerogative to proclaim that attitude.
Also to express your opinion. Nevertheless, more civility would be appreciated by all. You don't see Igard calling Gyrospeck names do you!
In closing, yes, you do have Gyrospecks' mod on your hard drive. That's HIS
adaptation of Igard's work. Not Igard. Plus the future updates that Elliot provides for Universe I'm sure
you can go to Gyrospeck for updates to his mod.

@Gyrospeck
We will be soon adapting and testing Star Trek The Archer, Kirk, and Spock eras as well. As I have and
are guardian for Igard over all his original files, I would be honored have you work collaboratively on them
with us soon. As a member of Elliots' Dev team, I have to split my free time accordingly between my mod,
Igard's mods, and more importantly, testing each version update Elliot puts out. So if you wish to consider
that please PM me.

[Osito]

Thanks for the update ehsumrell1; it's good to hear that the mod will be updated for Universe. Since you didn't say anything specific about maps, I'm going to assume that isn't a feature you're aware of right now. Note that what I'm working on has nothing directly to do with Igard's mod, except to the extent that it is connected with Star Trek. In fact, I did most of the work compiling data about galactic star systems without even thinking about Star Trek. I've been fairly anal about this work, to the extent of getting star names, distances, directions (so far as 2D permits), star sizes and spectral classes correct, within the constaints of DW.

However, with a potential 1400+ star systems, I realised I would probably need more star names than already existed (particularly for the 'gamma' and 'delta' quadrants), which made me think that I might adopt some of the lore from the star Trek environment. Of course this is a risky business: I watched the original series on first release in the UK, but I'm far from an expert, and it's surprisingly difficult to get consistent information about the composition of the 'Star Trek Universe'.

[ehsumrell1]

ORIGINAL: Osito

Thanks for the update ehsumrell1; it's good to hear that the mod will be updated for Universe. Since you didn't say anything specific about maps, I'm going to assume that isn't a feature you're aware of right now. Note that what I'm working on has nothing directly to do with Igard's mod, except to the extent that it is connected with Star Trek.

Your welcome Osito;
True, I didn't mention anything about maps. Although you should know, as a test team member I'm fully cognizant of
the maps feature. Please continue your work on your map. Remember that the map you create must be tied to an
individual theme and will be stored in a savegame, then need to be saved in the maps directory. So that, when you start a new game, you have the option to
load the map as either the way you created it in conjunction with the related savegame, clear specific or
selected items, resources, etcetera at game start, or load the maps' savegame and re-edit it. There's more,
but you seem to have the jist of it!
[:)]

EDIT: Also, FYI Osito, if you haven't considered this, remember that you may want to have your maps
for each level, 1400 stars, 700 stars etc. I know, some work involved, but can be viable.

[Osito]

Yes, I'm doing 1400 stars in 15x15 sectors for now. I may do other versions, depending on interest, although my primary motivation is creating a space I want to play in (and I always play 1400, 15x15). But if people want a smaller version I will consider it. Hell, I've already redone the bloody thing about three times to try to get the scale right, and I've only got to about 250 star systems and no planets except for the Sol system (that doesn't sound like much, until one actually tries to position 250 systems at the correct direction and distance from Sol with the correct spectral class!).

For the moment I'm doing it as a pure map, with no particular theme attached to it, and no particular starting conditions, but I suspect it would be best used as the basis for scenarios. That would be a second stage. tying in with someone else's mod, subject to their agreement.

Given the amount of data I've already collected, perhaps I should start another thread asking for feedback on what other people would like to see. I'm not certain it even interests many people, since most of the mod topics seem to relate to modding the txt files rather than creating maps.

Osito

[ehsumrell1]

I have a game plan I'm using for our Star Trek mods. I'll PM you later in the week when
I'm satisfied with it. Plus, I need to wait for the 1.9.5.3 update to test it. Will
let you know. Good idea about the new thread.
[:)]