EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: "Combat Replay / Report" inconsistencies !!!

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

I am very sorry to bring this up again but, unfortunately, it appears that we
still have problems regarding this...


I am playing PBEM as Japanese.

I got my opponents move and loaded it into UV. I watched the combat resolution
and then plotted my move. I saved my finished "Move" file, "Combat Replay"
file and "Combat Report" file and send it to my opponent.

After I did this I wanted to watch the "Combat Replay" once again because
there were huge battles and I wanted to write down on paper what exact enemy
ships I encountered and damaged.

To my great surprise the "Combat Replay" was different (different damages to
ships in both naval surface and air-to-sea battles - also some new battles
that previously didn't happen occurred this time).

The "Combat Report" textual file was, understandably, different as well.

UV v2.30 List of Changes & Fixes
27) It should no longer be possible for a player in a PBEM game to reload a
save and create a different execution phase result. The execution phase should
always resolve the same way.
28) We may have fixed the problem with combat replays during PBEM games not
matching if run on different machines. If not entirely fixed, the chance of an
inaccurate replay should be very low.

This then appears not to be fixed...


Anyone else saw this happening while playing PBEM games un UV v2.30?

Can you guys please test this and see if this is isolated "incident" or wide
spread occurrence?


NOTE:
I have the "Combat Replay" and "Combat Report" files saved if it is needed to
be send to Matrix/2By3.


Leo "Apollo11"

[fcooke]

In a game I'm playing with Yamamoto I pretty much consistently get combat replays which are very different from the ones he sees. The ones he sees are more 'accurate' than the ones I see and it makes it a bit hard to plan when you're not 100% sure what really happened the previous turn. Happy to send saves to Matrix if they're interested. The weird thing is it only happens with my game with Yamamoto, my 3 other PBEMs seem to be fine. Which makes me think it may be somehow hardware related/driver related (Yamamoto and I are on our second game and this problem has existed in both) At least it gives me somewhat of an excuse for the drubbing that Yamamoto is giving me.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

Originally posted by fcooke
In a game I'm playing with Yamamoto I pretty much consistently get combat replays which are very different from the ones he sees. The ones he sees are more 'accurate' than the ones I see and it makes it a bit hard to plan when you're not 100% sure what really happened the previous turn. Happy to send saves to Matrix if they're interested. The weird thing is it only happens with my game with Yamamoto, my 3 other PBEMs seem to be fine. Which makes me think it may be somehow hardware related/driver related (Yamamoto and I are on our second game and this problem has existed in both) At least it gives me somewhat of an excuse for the drubbing that Yamamoto is giving me.

The "Combat Replay" should be 100% same for both Japanese and Allied player
(and thus the generated "Combat Report" textual file should also be 100%
same).

Problem for allied player is that Japanese "truth" is what matters (i.e. the
things Allied player sees in his "Combat Replay" doesn't matter at all).

BTW, this is why in all my PBEMs my opponent and we have rule that Japanese
player (Player #1) sends his "Combat Report" textual file when sending his
move. That way the Allied player (Player #2) can see what actually happened in
any case...


Leo "Apollo11"

[fcooke]

Yamamoto does send the report but you don't see if there are claimed secondary explosions, whether your planes are climbing or diving in dogfights, and sighting reports seem to be different (this is HUGE).

[Admiral DadMan]

Originally posted by fcooke
In a game I'm playing with Yamamoto I pretty much consistently get combat replays which are very different from the ones he sees. The ones he sees are more 'accurate' than the ones I see and it makes it a bit hard to plan when you're not 100% sure what really happened the previous turn. Happy to send saves to Matrix if they're interested. The weird thing is it only happens with my game with Yamamoto, my 3 other PBEMs seem to be fine. Which makes me think it may be somehow hardware related/driver related (Yamamoto and I are on our second game and this problem has existed in both) At least it gives me somewhat of an excuse for the drubbing that Yamamoto is giving me.

The same thing is happening to Yamamoto and me as well, just as it happened to us in our first game.

All my other games are fine playing either side.

[fcooke]

Yamamoto seems to be the missing link here.....Yamamoto, is this happening to any of your other opponents? ????

[Cap Mandrake]

Same exact thing happening in game with Worr. He noticed it when his carrier damage didnt match the combat replay...and of course our text files were different. Sending the text file with the move is a good idea...as a TEMPORARY measure...this will need to be fixed.


BTW...has anyone had trouble with 2.30 moves asking for the wrong player's password..even after properly "EndSaved"?

[Cap Mandrake]

here are portions of two AAR's from the same turn scen 17 v 2.30, one developed by the Japanese player and one by Allied. Note that the order of the attacks are completely different, the bases and air groups involved are different. In one version a Japanese carrier attack goes in against a massive cap with NO fighters whereas in the other they are accomapanied by over 80 fighters. Note also the US players CombatReplay corresponded to his version of the AAR...ditto for tht Japanese.


*************THE ALLIED AAR****************

Air attack on 18th Aus Brigade, at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 23
F4F-4 Wildcat x 130

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 22 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4 damaged

LT J.Fujiwara of AI-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 4

LT J.Fujiwara of AI-1 Daitai is KILLED


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 3
B5N Kate x 62

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 22
F4F-4 Wildcat x 122

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 3 destroyed
B5N Kate x 65 destroyed
B5N Kate x 7 damaged


LTJG E. Bayers of VF-6 is credited with kill number 8


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
G3M Nell x 9

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 22
F4F-4 Wildcat x 122

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 9 destroyed
G3M Nell x 12 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2 damaged

LTJG W. Dean of VF-2 is credited with kill number 8

PO2 T. Takatsuka of F1/Tainan Daitai bails out and is RESCUED

Attacking Level Bombers:
0 x G3M Nell at 200 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 78
A6M3 Zero x 9
D3A Val x 18

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 21
F4F-4 Wildcat x 118

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 87 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 1 damaged
A6M3 Zero x 7 destroyed
D3A Val x 11 destroyed
D3A Val x 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 6 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat x 3 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat x 58 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 33 damaged

LTJG W. Dean of VF-2 is credited with kill number 11

Allied Ships
AO Merrimack
DD McCall


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 11

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 11
F4F-4 Wildcat x 67

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate x 12 destroyed


LTJG M. Noble of VF-2 is credited with kill number 9


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19
G3M Nell x 11
G4M1 Betty x 47

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 11
F4F-4 Wildcat x 67

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 18 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 1 damaged
G3M Nell x 7 destroyed
G3M Nell x 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty x 31 destroyed
G4M1 Betty x 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 18 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7 damaged

LT J. Reulet of VF-3 is credited with kill number 12

LCDR J. Thach of VF-3 is KILLED

Allied Ships
CV Hornet
DD Warramunga

Attacking Level Bombers:
0 x G4M1 Betty at 200 feet
1 x G4M1 Betty at 200 feet
0 x G3M Nell at 200 feet
1 x G3M Nell at 200 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Gili Gili , at 17,42


Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 20


Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 50


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on 41st Regiment, at 17,42


Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 7
F4F-4 Wildcat x 20
TBD Devastator x 57


Allied aircraft losses
TBD Devastator x 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 64

Attacking Level Bombers:
15 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet
15 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet
14 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet
13 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on 41st Regiment, at 17,42


Allied aircraft
Beaufort x 12
Wirraway x 12
B-26B Marauder x 18


no losses

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 41

Attacking Level Bombers:
6 x B-26B Marauder at 5000 feet
12 x Beaufort at 6000 feet
6 x B-26B Marauder at 5000 feet
6 x B-26B Marauder at 5000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 39
A6M3 Zero x 5
D3A Val x 24
B5N Kate x 5

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4
F4F-4 Wildcat x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 7 destroyed
D3A Val x 13 destroyed
D3A Val x 11 damaged
B5N Kate x 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat x 10 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 5 damaged

LTJG J. Daly of VF-6 is credited with kill number 8

LT E. Conant of VF-6 is KILLED

Allied Ships
CV Lexington
CV Saratoga
DD Phelps
CV Yorktown


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 15

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 3
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty x 4 destroyed
G4M1 Betty x 6 damaged


LTJG N.Fenwick of VF-42 is credited with kill number 6

Allied Ships
CV Lexington

Attacking Level Bombers:
2 x G4M1 Betty at 200 feet


***********NOW THE JAPANESE VERSION***************

Air attack on Gili Gili , at 17,42


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 9
SBD Dauntless x 14


Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless x 1 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on 41st Regiment, at 17,42


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11
TBD Devastator x 41


Allied aircraft losses
TBD Devastator x 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 79

Attacking Level Bombers:
7 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet
7 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet
6 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet
7 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet
3 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet
3 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator at 5000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on 41st Regiment, at 17,42


Allied aircraft
Beaufort x 12
Wirraway x 12
B-26B Marauder x 35


Allied aircraft losses
B-26B Marauder x 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 65

Attacking Level Bombers:
3 x Beaufort at 6000 feet
6 x B-26B Marauder at 5000 feet
12 x B-26B Marauder at 5000 feet
3 x B-26B Marauder at 5000 feet
5 x B-26B Marauder at 5000 feet
3 x B-26B Marauder at 5000 feet
9 x Beaufort at 6000 feet
6 x B-26B Marauder at 5000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on 25th Aus Brigade, at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 13
F4F-4 Wildcat x 72

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 4 destroyed
A6M2 Zero x 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 3 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 12 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4 damaged

PO1 R.Kurihara of AI-1 Daitai is credited with kill number 7


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 75
A6M3 Zero x 9
D3A Val x 63
B5N Kate x 57

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 10
F4F-4 Wildcat x 60

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 18 destroyed
A6M3 Zero x 1 destroyed
D3A Val x 7 destroyed
D3A Val x 15 damaged
B5N Kate x 12 destroyed
B5N Kate x 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 5 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat x 18 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11 damaged

LTJG W. Warden of VF-6 is credited with kill number 4

LT S. Mori of BII-1 Daitai is KILLED

Allied Ships
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 5
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 5, on fire
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Walke
CV Enterprise


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 17,42

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
G3M Nell x 6

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 5
F4F-4 Wildcat x 45

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero x 5 destroyed
G3M Nell x 4 destroyed
G3M Nell x 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 6 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2 damaged

LTJG W. Warden of VF-6 is credited with kill number 5

PO2 D.Maki of F1/Tainan Daitai is KILLED

Allied Ships
CA Vincennes
CV Hornet

Attacking Level Bombers:
0 x G3M Nell at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell at 200 feet


****************SUMMARY**********************


In one version (allied) the US carriers receive no hits and at least a hundred zeros and 60 kates are destroyed......in the other the plane losses are roughly equal but two carriers receive 5 250 kg bomb hits and a thrid receives 2 hits.


This isn't just over-optimistic claims, this is a real bug.

[worr]

Yep, seeing the same thing here on a couple games.

I play on two separate computers....but both say 2.3 in the bottom right corner. However, I suspect an improper install might be the culpret. However, getting it to uninstall without leaving a footprint is a task. Seems you can only remove the last upgrade, but the former upgrades will still show under control panel.

Any thoughts on how to do a thorough uninstall?

Worr, out

[Hoplosternum]

Hi,

I got exactly the same type of combat reports from Yamamoto as some of you seem to have. The combat replays I was watching and the actual results were very different.

Once I watched a whole air combat over my CVs with ship hits and dozens of downed planes that did not actually occur. Sometimes I saw his subs attack and miss but in my turn my ships were sunk or crippled.

Made it all the more frustrating losing to him as I really like to watch the replays (usually in horror though my fingers as Yamamoto crushed my allies in his steely fingers )

I know Fog of War can show inaccuracies but it seemed much worse in his game than any others. Perhaps it has something to do with the version numbers of when the game started. Mine was under 2.20, but it might have started at an earlier version.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

Originally posted by Hoplosternum


<snip>

I know Fog of War can show inaccuracies but it seemed much worse in his game than any others. Perhaps it has something to do with the version numbers of when the game started. Mine was under 2.20, but it might have started at an earlier version.

<snip>

Please note that "FoW" doesn't affect the "Combat Replay" for one player
compared to another (i.e. both players should _ALWAYS_ see 100% same
"Combat Replay").

What "Fow" does is just to alter same things for both players.


This is why I always suggested that we should have two separate "Combat
Replay" (separate for each player)...


Leo "Apollo11"

[Hoplosternum]

Hi Leo,

What I meant was there was a big difference between the combat report and what had actually happened in my turn. For example I could witness an IJN Sub fire a torpedo (and miss) the Long Island before her Destroyer escort DC'd the Sub. Then I would open the turn and find the Long Island was sunk (and on the dead list sunk by a Torpedo)....

I don't mean that Yamamoto was seeing a different combat replay. Not seeing his turn how could I know? Now obviously what you see in the combat replay is often inaccurate, but in this game the combat reports were often just nonsense. Large air battles that never occured (I think over 30 ACs went down on both sides plus 2 bomb hits per the combat report - in the game no plane losses, nor even fatigue), ships just vanishing (and appearing on the sunk list) etc. etc. far more than I had experienced in any other PBEM.

[joliverlay]

Moved from another thread:

PBMers please help me. I am in three PBMs and have a problem with one of them. I make a move as the american with a task force having an undamaged carrier. I recieve a combat report and the next turn from the Japaneese player. The combat report shows no attacks against my carrier. My CV launches normal strikes as expected. When the cursor is placed over the task force near the end of the round it shows all of the ships.

My oponent's email says he has ambushed my carrier, but this cant be comming from the combat report, because it shows normal air activity and no strike against me or sub attack. However, when I open the save game file my carrier is nearly sunk, my aircraft have diverted to land bases, and its in a two ship task force.

How did this happen without mention in the combat report?

Also, how did my opponent know it happened if its not in the report?

------------------------

Additional comments after reposting: In my case the supposed attack by the Japanese was not reported at all. This is not a difference in the outcome of a battle. My combat report showed no attack against my carrier nor any task force capable of attacking me. My oponent is using a NO-CD version of the game. Could this be a probelm???

[Cap Mandrake]

Originally posted by joliverlay
Moved from another thread:

PBMers please help me. I am in three PBMs and have a problem with one of them. I make a move as the american with a task force having an undamaged carrier. I recieve a combat report and the next turn from the Japaneese player. The combat report shows no attacks against my carrier. My CV launches normal strikes as expected. When the cursor is placed over the task force near the end of the round it shows all of the ships.

My oponent's email says he has ambushed my carrier, but this cant be comming from the combat report, because it shows normal air activity and no strike against me or sub attack. However, when I open the save game file my carrier is nearly sunk, my aircraft have diverted to land bases, and its in a two ship task force.

How did this happen without mention in the combat report?



Also, how did my opponent know it happened if its not in the report?

------------------------

Additional comments after reposting: In my case the supposed attack by the Japanese was not reported at all. This is not a difference in the outcome of a battle. My combat report showed no attack against my carrier nor any task force capable of attacking me. My oponent is using a NO-CD version of the game. Could this be a probelm???

Joliver;

I think this is best understood by first appreciating that the "CombatReplay" file is not like a digital movie. It is instead a set of intial starting variables and random number generator starting values which is SUPPOSED to be adjudicated exactly the same by both CPU's. The Saved Game file you receive from the Jap opponent is the result of what his CPU did with those starting values (and his turn in response). I suggest the following:

1) Make sure you have the same patch version as your opponent!

2) Lay off the "return" and "escape" keys during viewing of the the "CombatReplay" file.

3) Have your opponent send you his text file which recaps the battles in text format when he sends his turn .

4) Consider closing down and then rebooting Uncommon Valor BEFORE opening the CombatSave file.

[Crocky]

Same in my game against Yamamoto

[joliverlay]

Regarding the odd behavior of combat reports noted above in my post. I have done the following. I had the identical file resent by email. The new file showed an additional round of combat that was skipped the first time the file was sent to me. All other combats seemed the same.

I will have to rerun the first combat report after a fresh boot to see if the two files still act different. It did not occur to me to rerun the first file on a different day (reboot) since I looked at it many times (but without a reboot).

Thanks to all.