AI Improvement Mod (1.05 Extended Release)

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: acantoni
Two races do not have transport design available at all... don't know why

Thanks, I'll move up Transport Systems higher in the research orders.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: acantoni
2161 Quameno have researched Rusan and Casidor, Quameno have 200k+ (but close to 0 cashflow) and the wonders are not built. No transport design at all

I also very much have Extreme difficulty in mind with this ... where the AI empires will have the cash to build those wonders.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: wasa
I guess the No Pirates option has to be turned on? Got in the the game once I turned it off (although I got in with pirates on in a small galaxy with 3 other empires)

Did you get some error messages? In the Pirates Design Templates folder there was a file "vssver2.scc" that I had deleted thinking it was a mistake. I got crash dumps until I returned them ... I'll post a new link at close of play tonight with this fixed and other changes implemented.

[Icemania]

In the Distant Worlds AI thread I suggested modifying Spaceport designs to improve the lab mix.

With the mods made in a recent patch the AI now builds more Energy Research Stations, but inconsistently e.g. depending on cash. I was trying to work with that but it seems problematic.

Instead I have set Research Priority 0 in the Policy files (to avoid building Research Stations) with the desired Labs all in a Medium or Large Spaceport. This also means those Labs are less vulnerable.

I've just tested with the Quameno (thinking they would be most likely to build Energy Research Stations anyway) and appears to work.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Icemania

ORIGINAL: acantoni
Two races do not have transport design available at all... don't know why

Thanks, I'll move up Transport Systems higher in the research orders.

Found the problem ... in the template files Troop Transports appear to need at least one weapon.

[xepooqu80]

Hey Icemania!
Great that you found the issue with TT ! I actually tried a new game from pre-warp start but even when the tech was discovered it still wasn't available so it's settled now!

Is there any way you know off to force the wonder construction? there are some wonders, like the Trade Bazaar that you should always build it will net you a cashflow boost in the HW and even other wonders (like Rusan) they will still net you a positive income thanks to the + colony dev bonus -> maybe this is a feature request for Elliott

With the mods made in a recent patch the AI now builds more Energy Research Stations, but inconsistently e.g. depending on cash. I was trying to work with that but it seems problematic.

Instead I have set Research Priority 0 in the Policy files (to avoid building Research Stations) with the desired Labs all in a Medium or Large Spaceport. This also means those Labs are less vulnerable.

Will the AI still build research station where there are bonus? If not i am not convinced this will improve the AI performance though of course we can test


Just so you know when starting in your theme with Pirates i do get the error message aswell.. maybe it is linked to the transport?

[Icemania]

acantoni, I appreciate the comments, some help is important to get this right.

I've now reduced the Exploration Ships sizes to avoid too much of a delay early. They are now buildable once Size 230 is available. There are still extra fuel cells and thrusters. After all the most important factor was having larger Military Ships.

I don't know of any way to force wonder construction if the AI doesn't have the cashflow. PrioritizeBuildWonderId appears to be set correctly for the races updated. I agree for TradersBazaar the AI should build even without the cashflow given the boost received. I agree it will need Elliott.

ORIGINAL: acantoni
Will the AI still build research station where there are bonus? If not i am not convinced this will improve the AI performance though of course we can test

It's a catch-22.

With the new approach the benefit is that AI research is consistent. There is neither far too much or far too little Energy Research depending on the starting situation. As you mentioned it's a massive handicap.

I agree a better solution is needed but I just don't see how to make it work ... as least not yet.

ORIGINAL: acantoni
Just so you know when starting in your theme with Pirates i do get the error message aswell.. maybe it is linked to the transport?

Seems to work when "vssver2.scc" was added to the Pirates template folder. I have no idea what it does!

Oh and Dhayut now focus on Merkidor Planetary Fortress.

[Icemania]

[SUPERSEDED - refer latest link in the OP]

[Icemania]

Elliott, any chance at the start of a pre-warp game, that the AI could build a Small Spaceport and then immediately upgrade to the right level for the population i.e. Small -> Medium -> Large (if appropriate). When a Large Spaceport is built the AI can lose a lot of research time waiting for it to build.

[Cauldyth]

These changes sound great and should be rolled into the default game... [8D]

[xepooqu80]

Tried a game with the latest version
I was Sluken , difficulty normal so i guess no AI bonuses.

Good news:
Dhayut (which were modded as well in this compilation) won the game, the 2nd contender were ugnari which i guess were not modded.
Sluken didn't do so well and ended 6th out of 8 empire.

A few things i observed

- The change to research in the spaceport did work and the race started with the right amount of research, still not having research base and scientist is a major drawback
- At 230 size Escort were buildable but Explorers weren't .. this is still a big issue
- Sluken had some ships with missiles and phaser lances, this created an issue that sometimes when attacking enemy planets they would stay at range firing only missile and never doing any significant damage at all
- On the same note as above defense base were armed only with phaser lance and happily kited enemy fleet that didn't date come closer unless in force
- I was at restless setting, my empire was always at war with 1 or 2 empires
- troop transport were available at 300
- game didn't crash with pirates
- As usual fleet behaviour was strange.. i was 2 troop carriers loaded with 10 troops staying for years trying to kill the shield of a gas mining base

All in all a good update, i suggest as priority to make sure explorers are built at 230: thanks Icemania for the effort!!!
If i can i will let another game run later this evening and post other feedbacks

[PsyKoSnake]

ORIGINAL: acantoni

Tried a game with the latest version
I was Sluken , difficulty normal so i guess no AI bonuses.

Good news:
Dhayut (which were modded as well in this compilation) won the game, the 2nd contender were ugnari which i guess were not modded.
Sluken didn't do so well and ended 6th out of 8 empire.

A few things i observed

- The change to research in the spaceport did work and the race started with the right amount of research, still not having research base and scientist is a major drawback
- At 230 size Escort were buildable but Explorers weren't .. this is still a big issue
- Sluken had some ships with missiles and phaser lances, this created an issue that sometimes when attacking enemy planets they would stay at range firing only missile and never doing any significant damage at all
- On the same note as above defense base were armed only with phaser lance and happily kited enemy fleet that didn't date come closer unless in force
- I was at restless setting, my empire was always at war with 1 or 2 empires
- troop transport were available at 300
- game didn't crash with pirates
- As usual fleet behaviour was strange.. i was 2 troop carriers loaded with 10 troops staying for years trying to kill the shield of a gas mining base

All in all a good update, i suggest as priority to make sure explorers are built at 230: thanks Icemania for the effort!!!
If i can i will let another game run later this evening and post other feedbacks

[/quote]

also very much have Extreme difficulty in mind with this ... where the AI empires will have the cash to build those wonders.

The race you are playing dont get the AI bonus.
You need to play at extreme setting for the ai to get the bonus, and test the mod for Icemania.

Playing at normal dont give enough cash to the AI.

[xepooqu80]

Wait.. let me see if my understanding is correct and also if you understand what we are trying to achieve here.

The mod is intended in the future for the player to be playing at higher difficulty, which means the AI gets bonus while the player to play the game: this is granted and assume you play with the small automation you want an empire and the AI manages the other empires

What i am doing right now as suggested in the thread is test the behaviour of a modded empire under full automation, ie take as my empire one of the modded and have a go at full automation to see what happens and what it does, being my nation that i am observe being the one modded the higher difficulty would not impact ME but the others and since i am not playing if i have a go at extreme difficulty my empire would likely be crushed (as all empires are governed by the same AI, but my empire would be the only one not having the bonuses) making the testing i am trying to conduct here not really worthwhile
I agree with you the next steps would be "play" normally against higher difficulty AI, but i am not there yet in this testing

Is it like I described or if i launch a game at extreme and leave it in full automation my empire gets an ai bonus aswell ?


Other observation from a Dhayut game
Weapon research -> Dhayut is beelining towards Impregnable structures and not researching any weapons at all.. they still have "Energy Torpedo WEapons" and "Enhanced Beam WEapons" , that's it: this is putting them at massive firepower disadvantage in my current game

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: acantoni
Other observation from a Dhayut game
Weapon research -> Dhayut is beelining towards Impregnable structures and not researching any weapons at all.. they still have "Energy Torpedo WEapons" and "Enhanced Beam WEapons" , that's it: this is putting them at massive firepower disadvantage in my current game

Was that a Prewarp Start? On my Prewarp Tests it's worked. On Standard Starts it doesn't ... I don't understand why yet. As mentioned earlier please focus Prewarp for the moment.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: PsyKoSnake
The race you are playing dont get the AI bonus.
You need to play at extreme setting for the ai to get the bonus, and test the mod for Icemania.

My goal is to improve AI performance at any difficulty but optimised for Extreme. I also prefer to play Prewarp, but hope it will eventually be used on other Starts.

Testing on both Normal and Extreme is useful.

On Normal, the empire you are playing will no have penalties, and you can observe exactly what happens. As you say, there won't be enough cashflow to really take advantage in various ways, such as wonder construction.

On Extreme, the empire you are playing will have penalties which isn't useful to watch. However, you can pause and go to game editor and see what the other AI's are doing.

Please avoid Standard Starts though.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: acantoni
A few things i observed

- The change to research in the spaceport did work and the race started with the right amount of research, still not having research base and scientist is a major drawback
- At 230 size Escort were buildable but Explorers weren't .. this is still a big issue
- Sluken had some ships with missiles and phaser lances, this created an issue that sometimes when attacking enemy planets they would stay at range firing only missile and never doing any significant damage at all
- troop transport were available at 300
- As usual fleet behaviour was strange.. i was 2 troop carriers loaded with 10 troops staying for years trying to kill the shield of a gas mining base

I'll try a Research Priority of 1 again (but will keep the spaceport designs as they are in order to ensure there is always sufficient Energy Research).

Sluken have Phasers and Bombardment weapons. I've checked the design templates and played a test game and there are no missiles.

However, to get Bombardment weapons, you have to research Enhanced Missiles first. At that point the AI will fit Missiles rather than Bombardment weapons. Once Bombardment weapons are available, the AI will fit Bombardment weapons rather than Missiles.

Explorers were available at Size 230 in my test game. I'm not sure why there is a difference between our tests. I'll have to make it slightly smaller again.

I'm okay with Troop Transports at Size 300 (as Size 300 is a research focus).

I can't do anything about fleet behaviour.

Did you like having Starburners available so quickly? [;)]

Any observations on why they finished 6th? Resource shortages? Sometimes the AI just gets stuck, nothing much I can do about that. Private Ship Designs were all improved e.g. they are faster, more extractors on mining ships etc.

[Icemania]

The benefits of early Starburner Research ... a Speed 77 Explorer! LOL

[aaatoysandmore]

What mod is this? where do I find it? Is it easy set.exe type mod or do I have to download 4 things or more an install in specific order?

[Icemania]

No mod yet, it's a work in progress, a LONG way to go yet. There is a link to the files in a previous post, it's setup as a theme, but download only if you want to test and provide constructive commentary.

[xepooqu80]

Hello Icemania!
Great progress so far

ORIGINAL: acantoni
Other observation from a Dhayut game
Weapon research -> Dhayut is beelining towards Impregnable structures and not researching any weapons at all.. they still have "Energy Torpedo WEapons" and "Enhanced Beam WEapons" , that's it: this is putting them at massive firepower disadvantage in my current game


Was that a Prewarp Start? On my Prewarp Tests it's worked. On Standard Starts it doesn't ... I don't understand why yet. As mentioned earlier please focus Prewarp for the moment.

It was normal start, interesting that on standard it doesn't.. still will keep it in mind.
The thing i don't like at all about prewarp is that it can take 30-60 minute to get anything done at 4x speed this make it really annoying to test, anyway next game will be pre-warp

Explorers were available at Size 230 in my test game. I'm not sure why there is a difference between our tests. I'll have to make it slightly smaller again.

In two test games i saw different behaviour.. With Sluken they were available at 300, with Dhayut at 230

Did you like having Starburners available so quickly?

Any observations on why they finished 6th? Resource shortages? Sometimes the AI just gets stuck, nothing much I can do about that. Private Ship Designs were all improved e.g. they are faster, more extractors on mining ships etc.

I would say the main reason i can see is that they got stucked in long wars without the ability to win it and ended up trading worlds with the other empire instead of expanding, possibly bad luck.

In general indeed i see that AI get less stuck, though sometime it still do silly things.. in my latest Dhayut test game i noticed two things which i guess are for Elliott as possible bugs
- I had around 20 explorers trying to refuel at Ancient Guardians spaceport, they would circle around it like flies : fly in-> fly out.. after a few years they were all shot down and died
- There was a huge pirate base with 700 firepower, in my dhayut game where they didn't research weapon i saw fleet after fleet going there and die


My next game will be ME playing against AI empires with your mod.. at very hard (not ready for extreme yet!) and see what happens