Enemy at the Gates - Mesmerizing!

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 12:32 pm

I just watched a 30 minute special on "Enemy at the Gates," the story of the siege of Stalingrad, with the inner story of the Russian sniper Vasilli and the German Sniper Koenig as they hunt each other through the rubble of the great city.

You will not believe what you see. The special effects seem to exceed Omaha Beach in "Saving Private Ryan." the scenes along the Volga, the strafing, bombing German aircraft, the mad charge through Red Square.

You will simply not believe the epic grandeur of this film. I was mesmerized, here at 2:00 AM. So excited, I had to share it. It starts March 16th. You better believe I will be one of the first to see it!

I've over 600 war movies in my VHS collection. This will be a must have!

A Very Excited Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

königstiger · Post by **königstiger** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 5:35 pm

just watched the trailer at:
www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/enemy_at_the_gates

have to see that film!!!

lynchc · Post by **lynchc** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 5:49 pm

Sounds Great! I will be there. Another epic coming out that promises to be fantastic is Pearl. It comes out Memorial day weekend and has the same effects and grandeur.

My DVD collection is bulging with great war films.

Randy Stead · Post by **Randy Stead** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 5:58 pm

Just saw the trailer, looks good. I can't recall having seen a good Russian Front movie since Cross of Iron and Stalingrad.

[This message has been edited by Randy Stead (edited March 06, 2001).]

lnp4668 · Post by **lnp4668** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 6:39 pm

Sounds like a great idea for a recon tutorial, sniper hunting in the rubble of Stalingrad. (hint WB |-))

Greg McCarty · Post by **Greg McCarty** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 9:01 pm

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
I just watched a 30 minute special on "Enemy at the Gates," the story of the siege of Stalingrad, with the inner story of the Russian sniper Vasilli and the German Sniper Koenig as they hunt each other through the rubble of the great city.

You will not believe what you see. The special effects seem to exceed Omaha Beach in "Saving Private Ryan." the scenes along the Volga, the strafing, bombing German aircraft, the mad charge through Red Square.

You will simply not believe the epic grandeur of this film. I was mesmerized, here at 2:00 AM. So excited, I had to share it. It starts March 16th. You better believe I will be one of the first to see it!

I've over 600 war movies in my VHS collection. This will be a must have!

A Very Excited Wild Bill

Whoa! Just saw the trailer. THIS one is worth your focus!

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Greg.

37 mill AA...
can suddenly ruin your day.

rtr · Post by **rtr** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 9:54 pm

Hi,

The history channel in the UK has just shown an episode of 'suicide missions' about snipers, worth seeing. I don't know if the movie sticks to the reality and if it does wether mainstream movie audiences will buy the 'corny' way in which Koenig was tricked into giving his position away:-)

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Later

Rob Reid

murx · Post by **murx** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:24 pm

I hope when viewing this movie you keep in mind that it's complete fiction. Germany didn't use snipers with scopes at that time. And even as they introduced them in about 43 they weren't used in considerable numbers due to lack of scopes AFAIK.
But on the other hand German troops were trained to a degree against sniper. There was even a small teaching movie for the soldiers.
As the group takes cover and tries to scan the area one soldier holds up his helmet on a stick so the sniper thinks there is a soldiers head. As he shoots at the helmet he is giving away his position and gets wasted by MG and mall arms fire...
I dont know if that worked but at least that what German soldiers were told/showed.
murx

Lars Remmen · Post by **Lars Remmen** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 11:32 pm

Originally posted by Wild Bill:

I've over 600 war movies in my VHS collection. This will be a must have!

A Very Excited Wild Bill

WOW! 600 war movies! Didn't even know that many were made... Let's say the average movie is 1.5 hours in length. They're probably longer but 1.5 is easy to do the math with

That equals 900 hours of war movies. That is roughly 5.35 weeks of non-stop war movies. WOW!

Sorry about the OT post but I was very impressed. And I don't impress easily!

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Lars
Nec Temere - Nec Timide

Yogi Yohan · Post by **Yogi Yohan** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 12:06 am

In Alan Clarckes "Barbarossa" Ch 13 there's an account from a Russian sniper who fought a German "super-sniper" in Stalingrad, namely the head of the sniper school at Zossen, SS-Standartenführer Hans Thorwald. The name of the Russian sniper given the task of taking out Thorwald is not given. In this account, both the German and the Russian use telescopic sights.

I would be very surprised if this is not the story behind the film "Enemy at the gates". One wonders why "Koenig" is a better name than "Thorwald" according to Holywood...

Anatoly Chekov · Post by **Anatoly Chekov** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 1:34 am

Snipers - now we're talking. It's a shame that Sp:WAW doesn't model them more effectively.
Has anyone read the David Robbin's novel "War of the Rats"?
It details the contest between Chief Master Sergeant Vasily Zaitsev and SS Colonel Heinz Thorvald. Anatoly Chekov was one of Zaitsev's recruits.
It's a damned good read and doesn't stray from reality too much even though there is an attractive Russian female sniper to keep their scopes polished! Tania Chernova was real enough and had more than a few notches on the butt of her rifle.
It's a brilliant book.
I can also recommend "Sniper One-On-One" by Adrian Gilbert.

I'm amazed by the size of Wild Bill's video collection. According to the European advertising for the Renault Clio "Size Matters!" So I wonder if Wild Bill has come across a film I have been searching for for ages.
I must have seen it about 35 years ago. It was a black and white German film with English subtitles. I think it was called "The Bridge". It was set in a town in Germany in 1945 with the Americans advancing. A young German boy who has been trained in the Hitler Youth runs away from his school and tries to stop the Yankees.
I remember one vivid moment when an American soldier fires a bazooka and catches his loader with the full back blast.
Has anyone out there seen this film? If so how could I obtain a copy?

königstiger · Post by **königstiger** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 6:02 am

hi anatoly

we´ve watched this film in a history lesson in school. A group of six school friends about 16 year old boys where thrown to the front, where they had to defend a bridge...

one was killed by an air attack of a thingle thunderbold, one was killed by an american sniper, one was killed by an german officer and two were killed in action and only one survived the fight...

the bridge which they had to defend was attacked by small american unit, and they could destroy one or two sherman tanks.
during that fight one old german civilist was hit by the back blast of panzerfaust fired from one of these boys... few minutes later the young buy was hit by tank grenade...

the sense of this film was that this bridge was not important at all, and how these young boys were sacrificed for nothing

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 6:18 am

I posted this on Steve Hosfeld's thread, but I'll repeat it here:I just started downloading the trailer for "Enemy At The Gates", and from what little I've seen, this could be something special. IF Hollywood is prepared to revisit the greatest land war of the 20th century, then maybe my dream of seeing Guy Sajer's "The Forgotten Soldier" given a screen adaptation will happen in my lifetime.PS It's unfortunate that the myth of the "sniper duel" is given cinematic reality, BUT these are the movies, not documentaries. I suppose in these days that's the best we can hope for. At least the events of 1942 in Russia are being presented to a Western general public that barely knows of their existence---------------
"Welcome back, my friends, to the show that never ends, we're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside..." Emerson, Lake & Palmer

[This message has been edited by KG Erwin (edited March 06, 2001).]

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 7:11 am

I'm very zealous of this little assortment of warmovies. Now of course I am including from the Revolutionary War through today.

It's amazing how many have been done. I have almost two dozen on Vietnam, plus some 40 episodes of Tour of Duty.

Korea...over a dozen on Korea. Great films too!

And World War II, ah yes, some great and not so great, but all of them are still fun to watch.

In fact, I remember as a lad when many of these played in the theaters where I saw them for the first time.

Lot of personal memories attached to these.

I'm glad to see a good movie on East Front being done, especially Stalingrad!

I will make up a list for those who want it, but not in the very near future. Soon. Anyone want it, send me a note with your e-mail address and when it is done, I'll send it out.

Wild Bill

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

DELTA32 · Post by **DELTA32** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 7:17 am

Viewing the trailer I see Hollywood is at it's best again...being politically correct ! Harris, who plays the German sniper sent from Berlin was "historically" a Waffen-SS Colonel. Of course Hollywood has portrayed him as a soldier of the German Army ! So, right off the bat...they SNAFU the movie !

Delta 3-2

jerrek · Post by **jerrek** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 7:33 am

all this talk of speacil effects is a bit disconcerting as in hollywood good speacil effects and good movie are often independent terms not often associated with each other.
(forgive this cycical view from someone who views all modern US movies as rubbish until proven otherwise).

Jeff Norton · Post by **Jeff Norton** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 8:17 am

Heard the same thing about Zaitzev and Koenig. A made up fable... Saw the story on the History Channel about Suicide Missions and how it was played up. But, from what I read, there was never any German Officer Sniper. It even sounds odd. Low level German Army officers were generally leading from the front, but is strikes me as funny that a German officer would go 'hunting' in the ruins of Stalingrad.

But, fact is stranger than truth... I may be wrong....

Though, it looks like a good movie... Will check it out, since the wife/daughter are away this weekend. Is it released this week?
-Jeff

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 8:22 am

All of you are quite right.

It is probably more entertainment than history.

But then I go to the history channel for history and to the movies for entertainment

I'm ready to be entertained. Time for a good war flick.

To be candid, I've never seen a Hollywood production I felt was 100% accurate as far as history is concerned. But I do love those movies

Wild Bill

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 8:47 am

Wild Bill, you are right, the Hollywood treatment of history in general has been atrocious, but what IS history but the memory of events as remembered by participants and perceived by witnesses? Braveheart? A great story, some of it did happen. I'll put it this way--if YOU had to recreate the story of your life, wouldn't the desire to present events as they should have been as opposed to what really occurred take precedence? THAT'S how history is written. It's a simple concept, and all historians acknowledge this. Sorry if I am rambling, but any writer trying to recreate a given event, even with the advent of film and video recording, will still get contradictory reports from witnesses to the same event. History is by defintion subjective. It should be taken as such, unless you were there yourself. I've thought about it, but I believe that writers of fiction have a much easier time of it than historical writers. That's another subject, so I'll stop at that.

FWH-Odin · Post by **FWH-Odin** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 12:24 pm

In one of Time Life's WWII history books, there is some info on the Zaitsev (who used to be a shepherd/hunter) vs Thorwald fight, the info being from the diary of Zaitsev I think.
I don't know if all of it is true, but one thing is for sure, it wouldn't do well in a film. Mostly waiting and stalking... and luck. I'm at work now so I can't type the events out, but when I get home I can if anyone wants.