Request for Advice re CW convoys

[Hellen_slith]

Thank you, Larry, your comments are extremely helpful, especially because I am now in the midst of the "Stay at Sea?" phase of the transition to May / June 1940. I'm not yet sure how or where to go with Axis forces after this early Balkans run, the German/Russian pact is starting to sway back and forth. We may see a Battle Royal in the Balkans instead of an early Barbarossa, Stalin is not happy with the Balkan situation. I like playing with the alternatives to historical lines

Also thank you because I did not know about those rail lines to Gulf of Guiena. The transport system is a game unto itself!! Looking forward to more comments, thanks again, it is very helpful.
D

[Larry Smith]

One thing to remember when sending convoys back to post during the "Stay at Sea" phase is that if you click on them to split them up and send some home, don't forget to make sure the ones you want to stay are going to stay, and that you reset their "Sentry" status during the next turn. It is so easy to forget. I've had the entire CW network go down in one turn, and then not been able to reorganize anything for a lack of sea communication lines. Good thing I was playing solitaire, since a human opponent might not have allowed me to reload the game and redo the phase.

As for your strategic situation, I'd move on France while you can still keep Russia at bay with the Pact, then turn around and nail the Russians. You could still take back Rumania. And even if you bypassed it, anything there would require sea lanes of communication [which can be cut] to keep Rumania's and Bulgaria's capitals as supply sources. If Bucharest or Sofia fail to trace a valid supply line back to a primary Russian source [any city or supplied port in Russian held Russia], then those cities cannot be used for supply. But the Rumanian oil is too important to ignore.

[Hellen_slith]

I didn't even think about splitting them!! Thanks so much, I see now how to split them, and you're right, it is so easy to forget keeping them on sentry or easy to accidentally take them off sentry....which leads me to this next screenshot, as I was happily cycling through the "Stay at Sea" phase, proud of myself that everything was staying afloat, I got this message about a USSR convoy, during the JAPANESE phase. Not sure which unit got destroyed yet (if any) but I thought it was a really odd message b/c everything seemed to be fine, and then, WHAT? USSR Convoy destroyed, didn't need to return to base, all on sentry, and got told about it during Japanese subphase??:

[img]

That was weird.

[Larry Smith]

I'm not sure, but if there were no more ports in that sea area, and none close by for it to re-base to, it may require the CP to be destroyed. They only have a range of three, so at all times, no CP is ever more than 3 naval movement points from a friendly port it can re-base to. I've had to destroy naval units which appeared close enough to a friendly port, but weren't, since they were in a higher sea box.

As for that lark about getting 256 CP, don't so it. With only 3 naval moves a turn, you're not likely to get them out of the way before an enemy realizes there's a bit fat stack to Port Attack. With 128+ ships in a port, even a naval attack factor of 1 will give a decent number of kills.

I think I'm getting a MWiF version of a division by zero error there - I may have told a 3 CP chit to split into 3 new 1 CP chits, but that leaves nothing for the original chit.
One time I had a Polish chit with 0 CP!!

[Hellen_slith]

Thanks Larry, not sure what happened, but I have now confirmed that a Russian convoy did indeed sink into the Baltic at the end of April 1940...it just so happened that Japan was "on move" so to speak, just at the end of stay at sea phase, but before finalize production phase, and so that message popped up within Japanese colors. At least I think that is what happened.

Still not sure exactly why the Russian convoy sank when it did, but I do recall trying to move it to port, but the port was full. Lesson learned Stalin is even more unhappy now, attributing the loss to German subs just trying to distract from the volatile Balkans situation....three Russian Corps are on the move now down south. I am also now in the midst of moving the British Fleet around, trying to get those convoys ironed out again. After that, it is back to the Balkans and a very tense situation there.

Have to say, WiF is all I expected and more...thanks for you kind help and suggestions.

[Courtenay]

13.4 WHEN YOU CAN'T RETURN TO BASE
Destroy any unit (checked individually) that has no base to return to. It makes no difference if a unit couldn’t return to base because it was out of range or was blocked by naval movement restrictions (see 8.2.10 and 11.4.4). Clarification: You cannot return to base to a port you could not normally make a naval move into.
Destroy any unit at sea that couldn’t have returned to base (even if it could stay at sea. Clarification: Infinite naval units may remain at sea provided at least 1 space (i.e., at a minor port) is available to which they could have returned to base

If the USSR does not own any of the Baltic States or the Finnish Borderlands (Hanko) and the weather at the end of turn is snow or blizzard in the Arctic, then any Russian CPs in the Baltic Sea will sink, as Murmansk, the nearest ice free port, is four sea zones away (North Sea, Norwegian Sea, Arctic Ocean, Murmansk.)

[Hellen_slith]

Infinite naval units may remain at sea provided at least 1 space (i.e., at a minor port) is available to which they could have returned to base

Thanks, Courtenay, I see that now, and how it would have resulted in that Sov unit being "lost at sea"....that is one of those nuances of the game that I would have never have figured out on my own, thank you!

While I'm thinking about Soviet naval forces, one question that has been brewing in my mind is, what the heck should I plan to do with the Soviet navy? Right now (April 1940) I get the feeling that they are just dead weight. I don't recall the Soviet navy doing much anyway historically, maybe I just don't know much about that aspect of the war, but it seems to me I should concentrate on just Soviet land and air forces, and just keep a minimal force that is split between the Baltic and the North Sea? Or put a major force to control the Bosphorus Straits?

What do you experts do with the Soviet fleet? Thanks again for your kind help and always interesting comments!

[composer99]

I've seen stronger WiF players than I pull stunts with a Soviet navy (including building stuff) - if the Germans are busy fighting the Commonwealth.

In games where the Germans go after the USSR in the early and mid game, the USSR rarely has the spare build points beforehand (for the very reasons you state), or during the initial stages of the war. By the time the USSR re-builds and goes on the offensive there is very little time to build ships. And in any case the USSR rarely calls the kind of impulses that would allow for naval unit activity after the war starts.

[Courtenay]

The Soviet fleet does not do much. In most of my games, its most valuable assets are the convoy points. I put one CP in the Arctic, one point in the Black Sea, and one point in the Caspian. They can supply units that otherwise would be out of sf supply, and if the Axis player diverts effort to kill them, great! The Caspian Sea CP is very useful during an invasion of Persia; it can supply an attack on Teheran with no need for a Russian HQ.

Historically, the Russian navy broke the rules: Russian merchant ships sailed from Vladivostok to the US and back, and their fleet provided highly effect naval shore bombardment to Leningrad while tied up at port, neither of which is possible in WiF.

[paulderynck]

There are times in Barb - when the turn goes more impulses than expected - the Russians can afford to take a Combined and go raid the Baltic.

But usually the fleet based in Leningrad has the same life expectancy as Leningrad does.

[Centuur]

You can use Baltic fleet to put pressure on the Finns to accept the demand on the borderlands too. Put a loaded TRS and a ship with a division on it in the Baltic and you have the means of making an invasion in the surprise impulse, if Germany rejects the claim.

[Omnius]

Hellen,
While Courtenay's approach is interesting I find it not really that good. I too started out running CW convoy points through the Bay of Biscay and St. Vincent for the 1939 Global War scenario. After playing the 1942 Brute Force scenario I finally figured out how to run the CW convoys for the beginning of the Global War scenario.

I run all CW convoy points from the Indian Ocean area and Australia through Cape Verde, then the Central Atlantic, then the North Atlantic before dumping out at the Faeroes Gap. I don't start any CP's in the Bay of Biscay. That way I don't have to move my convoy lines. The Central Atlantic is superior to St. Vincent because of Italian submarines, they can sail past Gibraltar.

Also plan for the future, for the inevitable American convoys to the USSR. I only put enough CW CP's in the Eastern Atlantic to run what resources I want from Canada to Britain. The Eastern Atlantic, Canadian and Denmark sea areas are solely for US CP's to the USSR. That runs to the Norwegian Sea before ending in the Arctic.

I don't even consider running my CW convoy lines along the east coast of the North America. Too many CP's needed for that nonsense.

That way I start with my final CW convoy line running through the central Atlantic from the very beginning. It is much easier to protect that line and it minimizes how many CW CP's you need to build early to do a foolish move from Bay of Biscay to the Faeroes Gap or from St. Vincent to the Central Atlantic. What you'll end up with eventually are two convoy lines, the CW one running through the central Atlantic and the American one running along the northwestern edge of the Atlantic.

Omnius

[Courtenay]

I don't like the Central Atlantic because there is no place to base land base air that can react into that sea area. Unless one keeps rotating carriers into the zero box, that makes the Central Atlantic very attractive for Axis submarines.

If there is a way around this problem, please tell me!

[composer99]

Someone with the game would have to confirm, but the CW have the minor port of St John's (in the British Antilles) which looks like it bridges the Caribbean and Central Atlantic. You could use that to support NAV in the Central Atlantic.

That being said, I personally would not deploy convoy lines through the Central Atlantic, nor up along the Canadian Coast & Denmark Strait (*). I'm already running convoy lines and defences from the Caribbean, to Faeroes' Gap. Why double my defence commitments? (**)

Also, if CW or US is lending resources or build points to France before France falls, then someone (read: the CW) has to set up convoys in Bay of Biscay anyway. At that point, why go through the rigamarole of duplicating convoy defences? Just throw the whole line into Bay of Biscay and relocate when the time comes.

(*) Unless I had decided to abandon the North Atlantic, in which case I would run the line through the Canadian Coast & Denmark Strait. I've yet to do that in a game of WiF, as far as I recall.

(**) I like to cycle 2 cruisers in the 4/1/0 box of the Bay of Biscay/Faeroes' Gap, North Atlantic, and East Coast, plus throw an old, slow battleship and cruiser (such as the monitors) in the 0 box, plus NAV support. If I'm playing with light cruisers, add 1-2 cruisers to each box in the cycle. And I add the Caribbean to this "grand trunk", with similar defence, once the US is in the war. I certainly wouldn't want to try to replicate this level of commitment to 3 more sea areas!