Empires in the Balance (TS GCM v2)

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Sardaukar
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RE: TS GCM v2

Post by Sardaukar »

ORIGINAL: treespider

Got my pwhexe editor up and running...will be starting with internal map changes to portions of China. Those changes coupled with the base additions and garrison requirements introduced in version 1 should slow China to an utter miserable crawl.


Do not have a release date forecast as of yet.

I really hope that michaelm manages to implement fix he planned, where you actually need as much Aviation Support in base as you have planes there, or suffer reduction in efficiency. Now, 250 AvS can support as many planes as you can dump in. This fix would go long way to address the "mega air battles" issue.
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Puhis
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RE: TS GCM v2

Post by Puhis »

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

ORIGINAL: treespider

Got my pwhexe editor up and running...will be starting with internal map changes to portions of China. Those changes coupled with the base additions and garrison requirements introduced in version 1 should slow China to an utter miserable crawl.


Do not have a release date forecast as of yet.

I really hope that michaelm manages to implement fix he planned, where you actually need as much Aviation Support in base as you have planes there, or suffer reduction in efficiency. Now, 250 AvS can support as many planes as you can dump in. This fix would go long way to address the "mega air battles" issue.

+1

This and new map with stacking limits...
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treespider
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Some Changes to Central China

Post by treespider »

So here is the preliminary artwork for some of the map changes to Central China. I have yet to add the Chinese dotbases from TS GCN v1.3.

Map changes were prompted by Blackhorse's thread on China...with my 1944(ish) maps as reference material.

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Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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treespider
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Additional Changes to Central China

Post by treespider »

Added more swamp to the new course of the Yellow river...

...also note the addition of a rough patch W of Sinyang.

The dashed rail line will be treated as minor rail. That stretch of track was destroyed during the conflict.

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Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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treespider
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Empires in the Balance ( TS GCM v2)

Post by treespider »

Ok so in my spare time I have been modifying a clean version of DBB Scen 28c to incorporate some aspects of Treespider's Grand Campaign version 1.3-

To date I have completed:
- porting over of the dot base additions in China
- Resource and Industry changes introduced in version 1.3
- Modification of the SPS of Airfield sizes
- Japanese OOB: -changes that lock down a large portion of the Army in Manchukuo, and the rearrangement of the starting positions of the Chinese Expeditionary Army.
- Chinese OOB : addition of the static political sections that prevent the auto switching of the new bases in China
- Malaya Army: relocating the starting positions of a number of Commonwealth, Australia and British units based upon information in Kirby's books on the Campaign


Also decide to come up with a catchier title for the Mod....which will now be called - "Empires in the Balance"

Currently In Process:
- Additional map tweaks to China, artwork 75% complete, still need to work on pwhexe data update

Currently examining:
- Australian/SW Pacific starting Port Sizes
- A further possible re-structuring of the economy to focus attention on the necessity to transport liquids to the Home Islands.

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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treespider
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Empires in the Balance - Australia

Post by treespider »

One aspect of the stock AE game that is not represented well IMO is the desire(or need) of the US to build up the Australian infrastructure to support the war effort.

In my mod... I strongly suggest, nay, require that players keep all Resource Center, Light Industry, Heavy Industry and Manpower Repair and Production on.

I drug this previous post up as it relates to both of these aspects.
ORIGINAL: treespider

Consequences - AUSTRALIA

With the best will in the world, Australia simply did not have resources for the tremendous effort required. Australian manpower, scant to begin with, had already been drained for her military forces and war industries. Her continental defenses were at rock bottom, the best of her troops and the bulk of her military equipment having been sent overseas. Her economy was already stretched tight by the demands of two years of war and was scarcely sufficient to meet her own requirements. While a large part of the basic U.S. Army ration, items of clothing, and the like could be obtained locally, only a brief survey was needed to convince Americans in Australia that the great bulk of military supplies—including construction equipment and construction labor would have to come from the United States.

-Global Logistics & Strategy 1940-43, p. 168
Leighton & Coakley
Australia and New Zealand were primarily agricultural, producing an exportable surplus of foodstuffs and raw materials, which in peacetime they normally exchanged with England for manufactured goods. Though their industry was increasing, and the pace of its development was vastly speeded by the war, it was far from sufficient in 1942 to maintain an essential civilian economy and provide equipment for the armed forces Australia and New Zealand could put into the field. The large American forces sent to the area promised an additional drain on the native economy. These American forces would be operating at the end of one of the longest supply lines in the history of warfare. If they could draw the bulk of their subsistence supplies from local sources, the saving in shipping would be immense. A fairly simple and direct exchange therefore suggested itself whereby Australia and New Zealand would furnish American forces with housing, subsistence, clothing, and miscellaneous supplies and services in return for which the United States would supply the marginal needs of both their military forces and civilian economy.

-Global Logistics & Strategy 1940-43, p. 497
Leighton & Coakley


In Stock-AE Australia has 3210 Resource centers producing 64,200 RP.

Australia also has 2770 LI and 1120 HI which require 63950 RP and 2240 fuel.

As such she has a 250 point RP surplus...no more resources need to be transported to Australia.

The Industry/Refineries produces 5010 points of supply.

She also has 55 Refineries which produce 495 Fuel and 55 supply.

So in the end Australia produces 250 RP, 5065 Supply points and has a -1745 Fuel Deficit.


With my changes:

In Empires in the Balance Australia has 3210 Resource centers producing 80250 RP.

An additional 412 damaged Resource Centers have been added to existing centers.

Australia also has 2770 LI and 1120 HI which require 90530 RP and 2240 fuel.

As such At start she has a -10,280 point RP deficit. However as the damaged Resource Centers repair Australia will be able to meet her and the US's needs. After approximately 200 days the 412 Resource centers will produce a further 10,300 RP eliminating the Australian RP deficit.

Early in the game RP will need to be transported to Australia for her economy to keep functioning at peak efficiency. I tend to think of these Resource Points as asphalt, asphalt producing plants, crushing plants, compressors, jack hammers, screening plants for gravel, explosives, landing mat; for transportation, rail and rolling stock, trucks, gasoline storage tanks, and operating personnel, etc. After the first 200 days she will be fully self sufficent.

The Industry will produces 5540 points of supply. She also has 55 Refineries which produce 550 Fuel.

So in the end Australia At Start will produce a -10280 RP deficit, 3540 Supply points (5540 - 2000 for Resource Center Repair) and has a -1690 point Fuel Deficit....assuming the US ships RP and Oil to Australia. Eventually the RP deficit will disappear and the damaged Resource center will not need supply for repair.

Due to other changes in the US economy which cause Supply to be much scarcer it may be beneficial for the US to ship RP in addition to supply to Australia in the beginning until Australia's economy can fully meet its RP requirements.

IMO these changes help to create a supply "sink" in Australia, replicating the need of the US to transport in huge quantities of "stuff" to build up Australia.

Now to some of the Port questions I mentioned earlier...
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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treespider
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RE: Empires in the Balance - Darwin Port Size

Post by treespider »

At start in DBB Darwin starts as a Port Size 3(3)...based upon this 1939 era photo I think I might reduce Darwin At-Start to a 2(2) or a 2(3).

Source: http://indicatorloops.com/darwin.htm


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Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by treespider »

Started to mess around with Sasquatch (the economy) again...and may be onto some wholesome goodness...or evil depending on your perspective. This re-examination was prompted by the Aircraft need Fuel thread. The intent here is to highlight the importance of fuel in supplying the Japanese War machine.

The rigmarole I went through last year to arrive at my current numbers gives me the base line to start experimenting...

Current thought process starts with the Japanese Home Islands....the rest of the world will be redone once the Japanese Home Island base line is set.

EDIT: Had one of those epiphanical moments this morning ...

See Below.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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inqistor
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by inqistor »

ORIGINAL: treespider

So starting with v1.3 economy-
1. Divide HI centers by 4.
2. Divide LI centers by 2.
3. Increase HI Resource Demand by x4 to 76
4. Increase LI Resource demand x2 to 50
5. Increase HI Fuel Demand by x4 to 8
6. Increase HI Supply Output from 0 to 6
7. LI Supply output remains 2
8. Increase HI output from 2 to 7

Effects in the Home Islands

- Net Resource demand by Industry stays the same which in this mod is much higher than stock
- Net Fuel demand stays the same.
- HI Output in the Empire drops from c.13900 to c.12162 an 1800 point drop...not bad considering in my game with Mundy At-Start I am running a 2700+ pt surplus each day with some expansion of aircraft/engine factories and little to no expansion in HI.
- Modest drop in Supply Production
I am wondering if PzB supply troubles are also observed in other AARS. That could suggest, that there is not enough supply produced in mid/late war (and players tend to lose LESS, than historical fully loaded transports).
All of this is well and good for the Japanese Home Islands however I do not know yet whether the rest of the globe can handle the change...The US will need serious reworking with this shift...we'll examine more in the coming week(s).
I suspect, that free supply allocation is enough to run whole Allied machine.
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by treespider »

The ephipany...
Started to mess around with Sasquatch (the economy) again...and may be onto some wholesome goodness...or evil depending on your perspective. This re-examination was prompted by the Aircraft need Fuel thread. The intent here is to highlight the importance of fuel in supplying the Japanese War machine.

The rigmarole I went through last year to arrive at my current numbers gives me the base line to start experimenting...

Current thought process starts with the Japanese Home Islands....the rest of the world will be redone once the Japanese Home Island base line is set.

1. In earlier versions of AE players could shut off industries... in the current version of AE players are prevented from shutting of LI.

2. The primary driver for me is the shipping that was devoted to hauling resources back to the Japanese Home Islands to supply the war effort.

3. El Cid (Sid Trevathan) in his work on RHS developed the concept of "supply sinks", for a variety of reasons the "supply sinks" do not interact well with the code of the game.

4. The above three concepts have led to my new line of thinking...LI that consume resources but produces nothing...they are consumed by the civilian economies....in essence they are "resource sinks". Through the use of LI I can modulate the amount of resources required to be shipped to areas of the map...Japan, Australia, and possibly India.

5. HI would now be the only producer of military supply (other than daily supply allotments). As a result production of supply (a vast amount of which is consumed by aircraft) would be reliant on a steady influx of liquids.

6. Do not have hard numbers yet as i am also reworking the output side of the economy as well in regards to HI generated and the amount needed for arm, veh, ships, and a/c.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by Kitakami »

It will be great to see what comes out of this great effort!
Tenno Heika Banzai!
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treespider
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

It will be great to see what comes out of this great effort!


Hopefully will be ready for release sometime later this summer...
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by sandman455 »

Yes, I find this stuff fascinating and will definitely be looking forward to what you have come up with.

Reading through your previous posts here and elsewhere I was surprised to see that you had proposed using only LI for supply at one time. I'll try to let you know how bad my effort goes since this was an integral part of what I changed.
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by Captain Cruft »

Yes, why didn't I think of that. Nice one!

The only thing to check is whether an industry can have a null output without causing the code to barf.
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by sandman455 »

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

The only thing to check is whether an industry can have a null output without causing the code to barf.

Just a little understatement [:D]. Honestly you have to examine everything on both sides to verify you are leaving things in a neutral state. Lots of time (3-4 months so far) devoted to something that probably won't work at all. But it was fun the whole way and should I get tired of it all - I might just go back to playing WitP/AE. [:)]
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by treespider »

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Yes, why didn't I think of that. Nice one!

The only thing to check is whether an industry can have a null output without causing the code to barf.

Well we did it with refineries, by eliminating supply there....and we did it in Version I of this mod with heavy Industry by eliminating supply there....but those two also produce fuel and HI respectively...so I presume we can do it with LI as well.

But just to be safe I had already sent a PM to da man about 8 hours ago...so when he awakes from his sweet Australian slumber I hope to have an answer. My gut says all will be well.[;)]
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by treespider »

Alright then, time for another update...

I took a few days and placed historic Japanese Aircraft production into a nice spreadsheet available to everyone for a nice low price.

I have also received confirmation that I can assign Light Industry a Zero output with no consequences.

So where are we now...

I am going to make an assumption...that DaBigbabes C has Japanese Ship production as accurate as possible and that all available ships would arrive on their historic arrival dates if one did not provide acceleration. So ship construction is already addressed.

So with ship construction addressed, its time to look elsewhere.

Now that I have a fair grasp of historic aircraft output I can arrive at average HI number needed to meet that Historic output over the course of the game.

I want to create a situation where if a player wants to expand that output they will need to either :

1. Shutdown other industries or
2. Expand HI

So let's address #1....Other industries include armaments and vehicles.

From a rough analysis the Japanese have too large of a starting Armament pool and too large of an armament production capacity...so my immediate plans are to analyze the japanese Force structure...provide enough armaments to build everything out and then an extra say 15% production to cover replacements. That should make for a tougher decision for the japanese player ...do I shutdown armaments for more aircraft ?

2....Will be addressed in future updates.




Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
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RE: EitB - Economy (revisited)

Post by Xilana »

Curious as to what the status is on v2 for treespider's mod. Apologies if this data is posted somewhere else.

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