AI Improvement Mod (1.05 Extended Release)

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: lurchi
Anyway, does the AI only scale down, or does it scale up as well?

Genius!

I knew there was something wonky with how the Capital Ship templates are implemented in the game ... they seem to scale up as well.

I was also wondering why setting 40% Capital Ships in the Policy files didn't seem to work until later in the game.

I'm still testing but it appears there is a trigger, perhaps at Rapid Assembly Research, which allows Capital Ships to be built. Even if they show in the Ship Designer as buildable the AI will not actually build them until that trigger.

So I might be able to reduce the Capital Ship Designs to Size 650 and then they will scale up as technology allows in any case. The other designs could be readjusted as well to avoid the shrinkage problems.

Why couldn't something this significant be put in the modding manual? I've spend god knows how many hours doing these templates, only to find there is potentially a better solution, completed undocumented ... and now I'm going to have to rework and retest ...

[:(]

[DeadlyShoe]

the AI also scales up fleet sizes in the policies~~

[Locarnus]

ORIGINAL: Icemania

[...]

Why couldn't something this significant be put in the modding manual? I've spend god knows how many hours doing these templates, only to find there is potentially a better solution, completed undocumented ... and now I'm going to have to rework and retest ...

[:(]

[...]

Consider this experience to be the unofficial initiation rite to DW:U modding [8|].

It wont get easier, you ll just get accustomed to expect undocumented and unexpected processes, limitations and changes.
I spent more than half the time on those instead of the actual implementation of my ideas, just dont take it too serious, so you dont feel bad when stuff breaks again.

I wish you the best in your efforts.

[Icemania]

Locarnus:

Out here in the real world I've had plenty of Project Leadership roles, so I expect the unexpected. I'm in the habit of publicising dates that allow for that. So this issue won't effect either completion of the mod or even the July 20th Alpha release date.

That said, I also expect vastly more complete documentation than what we have here. There are a lot of undocumented features in the Policy files e.g. what exactly does a "3" do versus a "4" etc. Those I've planned ahead for anyway realising each change will need testing. But this particular issue is annoying due to the volume of rework.

As this change will provide a better outcome than the current release, the developers have said they will support, and I'm not the type to be easily deflected given how weak the Space 4X market is at the moment ... I'm still motivated to continue this Mod.

[hewwo]

keep it up Ice;)

[bugbear777]

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Icemania
So I might be able to reduce the Capital Ship Designs to Size 650 and then they will scale up as technology allows in any case. The other designs could be readjusted as well to avoid the shrinkage problems.

Test results are good, no more shrinkage problems with Capital Ships.

But Cruisers are still a problem. They are designed now for Size 500, but the game builds them at Size 300 research, with few or no weapons.

Still needs attention from Elliot.

[DeadlyShoe]

I'm pretty sure that's purposeful as part of the increased design shrinkage flexibility in the recent patches. it has produced some weird results like that, but at least you see more design variety early game.

Maybe we could have a flag in the design file where say an asterik means the ai won't design this ship if it can't get the full complement of this item into its design.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: DeadlyShoe

I'm pretty sure that's purposeful as part of the increased design shrinkage flexibility in the recent patches. it has produced some weird results like that, but at least you see more design variety early game.

Maybe we could have a flag in the design file where say an asterik means the ai won't design this ship if it can't get the full complement of this item into its design.

I like having shrinkage but not when it means a ship has no weapons (or very few) compared to the template. I would set a minimum 50% of weapons ... any lower and it can't be built.

[DeadlyShoe]

Fair point, it would be good to know what the criteria are.

On the plus side you see things like the standard Human Carrier having 80 armor and 10 fighter bays in the default design file now.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Icemania
I'm still testing but it appears there is a trigger, perhaps at Rapid Assembly Research, which allows Capital Ships to be built. Even if they show in the Ship Designer as buildable the AI will not actually build them until that trigger.

Rapid Assembly is now much earlier in the AI Research Orders. But there is still some delay before the AI will build Capital Ships, even though they are now Size 650 designed.

Also I see no evidence that "planet type X colony growth rate doubled" works.

Any ideas out there for these two issues?

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: DeadlyShoe
On the plus side you see things like the standard Human Carrier having 80 armor and 10 fighter bays in the default design file now.

And you can expect to see a lot more of them in this mod, used by races that focus their research accordingly ...

[Icemania]

To help the AI with Pirates, given protection agreements are not well used, I've moved Armor Plating and Shields to the top of the Research Order.

[Elhazad]

ORIGINAL: Icemania

To help the AI with Pirates, given protection agreements are not well used, I've moved Armor Plating and Shields to the top of the Research Order.

This will be very good i belive, as the few games i have started with lots and hard pirates have shut down many empires from growing a ton of times, only growing back after i cleared some of them. So far i enjoy games with normal pirates and no space monsters due to this.

One thing i wanna test a bit more and watch how the AI handles it, is troops and how they handle pirate hidden bases and such. I say this because in a few games (dont remember the race :\) pretty much all their planets had pirate fortresses etc and they where not attacking them, and if they did they lost due to launching the attack with not enough troops, all this while having 5 transport full of troops orbiting said planet...

PS. Cant wait till alpha! [:D]

[Icemania]

Elliott, is it possible to apply some shrinkage for civilian ships?

As an example the Gas Mining Ship that I have in this mod has 3 Mining Engines, 10 Thrusters and 6 Fuel Cells (which can be built at Size 230), compared to the default which has 1 Mining Engine, 5 Thrusters and 3 Fuel Cells (which can be built immediately). The performance difference between the two is significant.

On Expensive Research or above, getting Size 230 Research takes a little time, so the AI is delayed in building those mining ships if no shrinkage is permitted. So long as the designs have a minimum number of components (e.g. 1 Mining Engines, 5 Thrusters, 3 Fuel Cells) this would work well.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Elhazad
One thing i wanna test a bit more and watch how the AI handles it, is troops and how they handle pirate hidden bases and such. I say this because in a few games (dont remember the race :\) pretty much all their planets had pirate fortresses etc and they where not attacking them, and if they did they lost due to launching the attack with not enough troops, all this while having 5 transport full of troops orbiting said planet...

I've had the same observation. They tend to depend on using the troops they have on the planet only. There is little that I can do here, I agree it needs improvements, but would need support from Elliott and Erik.

[Icemania]

Elliott, in "Normal Starts" (i.e. "Starting") the game does NOT use the Research Build Orders in the Race Files.

For example, in this mod the Kiadian are focused on Torpedoes. But the game gives them Beam Weapons and Enhanced Beam Weapons at the start of the game, which they do not use in their designs at all, rather than Energy Torpedoes per the Research Build Order. As a result they start the game with no weapons, which makes them very vulnerable.

So could the first X technologies in those Research Build Orders please be used on other starts?

[ehsumrell1]

ORIGINAL: Icemania

Elliott, in "Normal Starts" (i.e. "Starting") the game does NOT use the Research Build Orders in the Race Files.

For example, in this mod the Kiadian are focused on Torpedoes. But the game gives them Beam Weapons and Enhanced Beam Weapons at the start of the game, which they do not use in their designs at all, rather than Energy Torpedoes per the Research Build Order. As a result they start the game with no weapons, which makes they very vulnerable.

So could the first X technologies in those Research Build Orders please be used on other starts?

Just a question Icemania. You are aware that the race's Policy file overweighs the Tech Focuses in the
race file correct? Just wondering, in your aforementioned example, if the Kiadian Policy file's Tech
focuses are focused on Torpedoes as well. If not, then something IS amiss.
[:)]

[Icemania]

Thank you very much for the suggestion ehsumrell1. The Race and Policy file Tech Focus fields were not set to any weapon.

However, I had expected that Tech Focus in the Race files would only be used after the Research Build Orders in the Race files were complete. While this is the case Prewarp, for "Starting", it does influence what technologies are available as a higher priority than the Research Build Order. So by setting Torpedoes in the Race Files are ResearchDesignTechFocus1 they were available in a "Starting" game.

What was also interesting was what happened when I tinkered with the other selections. Some technologies are provided by default e.g. Shields. So putting Shields in as a ResearchDesignTechFocus had no impact. The settings that made a difference from default were Countermeasures, Target Tracking, secondary Weapons (e.g. Missiles), Sensors and Damage Control.

With a Research Build Order a danger would be that these selections would focus the AI on those areas. However, this is not a concern here, as once the game is built and started the Research Build Orders are then used.

I'll apply to this for each race for the Alpha release.

Thanks again.

[Icemania]

ORIGINAL: Icemania
Also I see no evidence that "planet type X colony growth rate doubled" works.

This appears to be a bug, will report in Tech Support.