Japanese AI Bug?

[jakla1027]

Hello,

I am currently playing a the Dec.8 normal grand campaign. It's currently mid April of 1942 and the Japanese AI keeps sending surface TF composed of 2-4 BB's couple CL's and 4-5 DD's to within 9-4 hexes of Pearl Habor. They arrive at that location and stay for several days changes hexes each day by 3 or few hexes but,never coming any closer than 4 hexes to Pearl Harbor. So is this a bug or an AI Scrip? The Task forces have no air cover so my carrier & land based planes just go out & conduct easy bombing on these ships, while virtually taking no damage in return. I've already sunk 3 BB's and probably another 3-4 (plus several smaller ships) that couldnt have made it back to base for repairs.

So is this a bug? I'm running one of the first 4 Japanese AI files, 001-004. I removed the other AI files for my own preference. I have also added a few aircraft imto the game via the editor, Seawolf, Skua, & Whirlwind for example. But i have not modified any of the AI scripts.

Any info on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

[wdolson]

It is an AI quirk that's been around since the early days of WitP.

Bill

[HansBolter]

Happens all the time.
Stand down your LBA and send your carriers far enough away that they won't hit the TFs.
Otherwise you'll break the AI pretty early.
You have to coddle the AI a little bit and not take advantage of the dumb things it does.

[pws1225]

I also seem to recall that Andy Mac provided some newer AI scripts that provide a better game than the original scripts. I did a quick search of the forum to find the thread but didn't see anything. Maybe some other forumite can be of more help.

[Bill Durrant]

Yes - try the Ironman scenario vs the AI. I'm in May 42 and it has taken all of DEI, Philippines, PM, Guadalcanal etc. Is knocking on the door of Akyab. Has just invaded Western Oz and has taken Diego Garcia

[jakla1027]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Happens all the time.
Stand down your LBA and send your carriers far enough away that they won't hit the TFs.
Otherwise you'll break the AI pretty early.
You have to coddle the AI a little bit and not take advantage of the dumb things it does.

So will this happen only for a few in game weeks, or am I looking at this issue into late 42 & after?

[PaxMondo]

As Hans said, the AI has 'quirks'. When you see one, if you want a game to last, you need to NOT take advantage of it ... If you can't help yourself, then you need to play PBEM ... [;)]

[Thayne]

I am at October 28, 1942 in an Ironman game. In my case, the Japanese launched a major assault into eastern India.

After a few false starts, a few of the things that I learned in order to get a good game from the AI:

(1) What the Japanese want, the Japanese gets. Stopping an advance has a bad tendency to cause the Japanese to continually throw small allotments of troops at the problem, getting them slaughtered each time. For example, in one game, the Japanese wanted Chittagong. Every week or so for nearly a year, a landing party would show up, I would sink a couple of transport ships with shore bombardment, the troops would land, they would be defeated, and either surrender, re-embark, or retreat 1 hex east. But, eventually, the Japanese will stop expanding and then one can start the slow process of rolling them back.

(2) Against a human opponent, don't expect the same maneuver to work twice. Humans learn from their mistake. Against the AI, if something works once, it will likely work a second time. And a third. For a good game, do not exploit these weaknesses. Just assume, as against a human opponent, that the enemy will likely not let you get away with that a second time.

(3) Andy Mac built some light industry and resources in forward location to provide supply (so the AI doesn't send ship after ship to get slaughtered). I leave them alone until I have the place actually isolated.

I also play with some special rules that fit with a more of a "roleplaying" style. For example - telling Australia to turn off its industry in order to save fuel? That would never happen.

[Numdydar]

For a 'fun' game I played as Japan against the Allied AI just to see how far I could get [:)]

It is now March '44 and I am still invading [X(]. Just captured Samoa in February '44. I have lost one CV to about 12-15 of the Allies. That is the only capital ship I have lost to date.

So far, I have captured all of China and Oz. And the battles for these were pretty epic and fun. The AI is giving me a pretty good run in Burma now. Things have stabilized but I do not know if I can throw them out.

This should give you an idea of how easy it is to 'break' the AI. So let Japan go wherever it wants through most of '42 without resistance. Then you will have a much better game. Unless of course you want to see if you can win in '42 [:D]

[jakla1027]

Ok so i went back to the beginning of April & turned all my aircraft assets based at pearl to off & just training. The Japanese AI TF stayed about 4-8 hexes to the west of Pearl Harbor. Then on April 15 they came within 2 hexes, then on the 17th they came into Pearl Harbor and engaged about 4 TF of mine that were in the Harbor, sinking several merchant ships plus 4 CA's and 5DD's. This sucks, i just lost many ships in a battle that would have never happened. If i would have set all my air assets in Pearl to naval attack on the days before, i would have slaughtered the stupid AI TF just sitting off Pearl, but in doing so i would be "breaking" the AI by just slaughtering AI ship. Yet if i leave them alone i lose ships just so i dont break the AI. This is kinda becoming really stupid. This has to be an AI bug!!! Is thier anything i can do to fix this problem? Is thier any programers that can help?

[HansBolter]

I can appreciate your frustration.

I have had the AI send these kamikaze surface TFs at me repeatedly through many games.

I have never had one enter Pearl.

I have had a couple bypass Pearl to the north and get around behind it and start messing with my shipping routes.

Then they become a legitimate raider that I go out and sink.

You can only cut the AI so much slack before it starts messing with your own plans.

There is almost no likelihood that this will ever be fixed.

The game is designed principally for PBEM play with a rudimentary AI.

AndyMac seems to be the only Dev who puts much effort into game upgrades for those of us who play the AI. (sorry if I have insulted any other Devs).

You might try making a plea to him asking for him to look into it, but the problem may be very difficult to uncover and fix.

Bear in mind the underlying code for this game dates back to the early days of DOS and there is only so much the Devs can do with the limited rights they obtained from Gary Grigsby to update and modernize his game.

[dwesolick]

I'm playing the ironman scenario (I'm at Oct 42 now) and I've seen the surface TF thing near PH a couple times. However, the AI seems to stay out of all but LB range so not too much damage has been inflicted.

The other thing I've seen, and which I am totally at a loss to explain, is the AI routinely (maybe every 3-4 weeks) sending a TF consisting of 8-10 landing barges escorted by 3-4 SCs to the NE of PH, apparently heading for the west coast....but WHY??? I never let them get past Pearl. I send out a surface TF which obliterates them all nicely. This earns some solid experience for my ships while not costing the AI much, so it actually works out well. But why in God's name would the AI be sending such a TF in the first place? Anyone else seen this?

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

I'm playing the ironman scenario (I'm at Oct 42 now) and I've seen the surface TF thing near PH a couple times. However, the AI seems to stay out of all but LB range so not too much damage has been inflicted.

The other thing I've seen, and which I am totally at a loss to explain, is the AI routinely (maybe every 3-4 weeks) sending a TF consisting of 8-10 landing barges escorted by 3-4 SCs to the NE of PH, apparently heading for the west coast....but WHY??? I never let them get past Pearl. I send out a surface TF which obliterates them all nicely. This earns some solid experience for my ships while not costing the AI much, so it actually works out well. But why in God's name would the AI be sending such a TF in the first place? Anyone else seen this?

Again this happens all the time. I also sink them out of hand.

Losing these isn't going to break the AI the way sinking it's BBs will.

[Andy Mac]

But why is the AI sending them there that's nuts there is no target that late that the AI should be trying to invade can someone send me a save before the TF is attacked I need to know which script number is sending it up there

a.mcphie@btinternet.com

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Bear in mind the underlying code for this game dates back to the early days of DOS and there is only so much the Devs can do with the limited rights they obtained from Gary Grigsby to update and modernize his game.

It isn't really a legal rights issue. It's a matter of weighing the outcome vs the effort. There are some things that would take a lot of effort and the results just aren't worth it.

Bill

[jakla1027]

Andy Mac,

Just sent you my game/save files to your e-mail, thanks for looking into this.

[Andy Mac]

OK found the bug in the AI I can fix it but not in ongoing games it will stop late 42 or if the AI holds Akyab/Noumou


Will fix if I ever do another full update thasnkas for the bug report

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

OK found the bug in the AI I can fix it but not in ongoing games it will stop late 42 or if the AI holds Akyab/Noumou


Will fix if I ever do another full update thasnkas for the bug report

In most games I never let the AI have Akyab. In your scen 10 however, the Nasty AI landed a division at Noumea on Dec 16th.

You're the greatest Andy! [&o]

[jakla1027]

Thank you Andy!!!! [&o]

[jakla1027]

So now that i know that there's a bug that has broken my game against the AI, does anyone have any suggestions as to which scenario to try playing next, do all scenarios have this same confirmed AI bug? I'm looking for for a scenario against the AI, dont really have the skill or time to play against a real opponent. So now im looking at finding a new scenario that is AI bug free,or i guess selving WiTP:AE until more bugs can be fixed in the AI scripts.