2.04 Soviet MRC (BTR) does not shoot

[Alex1812]

We found that Soviet mechanized rifle companies (equipped with BTR) does not shoot in combat absolutely. No one shoots during the battle

The file with test scenario is attached here. Please, check it

[CapnDarwin]

We'll check this out tonight, thanks for the file.

[cbelva]

That is not exactly true (does not shoot in combat absolutely). I ran your scenario and while it does not fire much, the Soviets did fire on the Amis. Once the Soviets moved into the Amis hex they got quite deadly taking out the Ami plt. It should be noted that two of the Soviet companies were loaded in their BTRs and moving away from the Amis while the last one was unloaded and moving/assaulting into the Ami plt. All three were moving in assault movement which is more about speed and in an open profile. While the Amis were stationary in a hold profile which means they were in a "dug in" profile.  

I am not criticizing your post. In fact, posts like this are very valuable to us. I am pointing out the different variables involved that can all have an impact on how the combat plays out. I will add that infantry combat is still a work in progress. At this scale it is extremely hard to get right since there is so many variable at work. I have broken your test scenario down into parts to see how some of the different weapon systems were working. We may have an unscheduled meeting tonight and your post will be looked at and discussed.

[Alex1812]

How I run this test scenario: soviet side, no orders, just starting turn by turn. During the several turns (about 60 minutes) soviet MRC not fired absolutely. I placed MRC with BPM-1 and start again. MRC with BMPs opened fire as usual, but MRCs with BTRs not fired.

[Alex1812]

This problem appeared after 2.04 patch. Two people have told me about it already

[Alex1123]

I tested on static units only fire contact.
Soviet infantry BMP.
the majority (2/3 of the Soviet troops) did not fire.

Sorry, I just registered and I'm not allowed to post links yet.

[cbelva]

We will be discussing this tonight.

[IronMikeGolf]

Part of this is the range of the weapons in the BTR-70 MRC. The anti-armor systems (AT-3 and RPG-29) range bands don't overlap. AT-3 min range 500 m. RPG-29 effective range 250 m. So small arms and RPG-29 are same hex weapons. Neighboring hex can be too close for AT-3.

I would expect the machineguns on the BTR-70s to shoot an adjacent hex.

[CapnDarwin]

As Charles points out, we will look into this problem in tonight's Dev call and see what is going on. Thanks for the information and test case.

[Alex1812]

AT-3 min range is 500 m, but combat range is 1000 m for two companies. And what is about heavy MG vs infantry? Something is not ok

[CapnDarwin]

Something was indeed not okay and it has been in the code for a long time. Fixed now and will be in the 2.05 update. Your scenario is now a shooting spree by both sides! [:D]

[IronMikeGolf]

Capn, can you tell us the extent of the misbehavior? Particular types of sub units? Something else?

[CapnDarwin]

Units that have a manpads subunit are getting incorrectly filtered out in a combat routine. We should have spotted this sooner, but there was no debug message in the one area of the code filtering for a SAM type subunit. If you remove the SA-14 subunits from the BTR units, they will suddenly start fighting correctly again. I'm happy we found it this time because this bug has been a headache for a long time because we did not see the trigger effect.

This is a great case of a player saying it's broke and having a test scenario that isolates the issue. I also think we have cleaned up a number of bugs and other issues to a point that we can now spot these deep bugs when they pop up. Thankfully, becoming fewer at this point.

[Lowlaner2012]

Hi guys..

Can this be hotfixed? (its a pretty big handicap for any Soviet units with manpads)

What is ETA on 2.05?

Thanks

[CapnDarwin]

It will be in the 2.05 update. ETA right now is not known. We have a very short and finite list of fixes to do and test and we will cut it loose. We will keep you posted and getting this out is our #1 priority right now.

It is only an issue for the BTR style units that have a MANPADs in them. BMP formations have the SAMs as a separate unit. You could if you are making a scenario, wait or move the MANPADs to an independent unit.

[IronMikeGolf]

Just Soviet MANPADS? Thinking US has Stingers in Co HQs, not line plts, so maybe not so big a deal. Not sure about Brit and FRG units.

[CapnDarwin]

Any unit with a SAM in its composition will not shoot ground to ground due to the bug. Pure SAM AD units will be less of an issue since most of them are not ground target capable. A 2S6 will not use its guns on a ground target for instance, because of the SA-19s being carried. NATO systems are not built that way so it is not a problem.

[Lowlaner2012]

Thanks for the reply Capn Darwin, I'm glad you see the 2.05 patch as No1 priority

I guess the wait is on (for me at least) until the 2.05 patch is live...

[CapnDarwin]

Highland, 2.04 plays well as is and this bug in particular does not phase most scenarios. There are a lot of good fixes and new features in 2.04 to get familiar with. Just saying. [:D]

[Lowlaner2012]

Yes I am very impressed with the new features, they do improve FPRS loads...

But I cant play knowing that if a Soviet BTR unit or American unit with manpads gets into close combat they cant fire and will very probably get massacred, it ruins the game for me...

I do think you have created an awesome game so dont take it as criticism, I'm just a bit OCD [8D]