Back in the East STEF78 (Axis) Oshawott (USSR)

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:21 pm

Turn 106, 24th june 1943

The full front line with my strongest points, my questions and my favourite FB.

Michael T · Post by **Michael T** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:42 pm

I think considering the numbers you are up against you have done amazingly well to still have an OOB of almost 4 million and 3500 op tanks.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:07 am

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I think considering the numbers you are up against you have done amazingly well to still have an OOB of almost 4 million and 3500 op tanks.

Thanks, I do my best (which isn't enough).

This summer will be very long and right now, I'm really worried with his mech/tank units.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:21 am

Turn 107, 1st july 1943

He has clearly the initiative all along the front. I'm only reacting to his moves/actions

North

Really worried with this part of the front. The center is weak and I'm concerned with all these mech/cav units on the left side. I will progressively retreat behind the Dvina

Smolensk

I didn't thought he would have transferred so much units on the landbridge. I suffer but it will be soon reinforced

South

Despite heavy units, I almost stopped him on the Kirovograd/Nikolaïev line

Battles

As his stacks are growing every turn, only 2 (successfull) counterattacks this turn

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:27 am

Turn 107, 1st july 1943

An overview of my pool, it's ok for now

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:31 am

Turn 107, 1st july 1943

And the global view of the front. I retreat on the extreme west and heavily reinforce the landbridge.

And of course my FB [;)]

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:38 am

New record, always on the landbridge....

loki100 · Post by **loki100** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:23 pm

How worried are you that Oshawatt can muster a serious breakout around Riga? That might set off a catastrophic pocket for your forces on the landbridge (well the few not being buried by the sheer volume of artillery he is bringing to the show).

caliJP · Post by **caliJP** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:19 am

Stef I am surprised by the sudden retreats across section of fronts by many hexes in one turn. You have a 4m army with almost 4000 tanks, it seems you could make it harder for Oshawott to progress by retreating only very slowly. Yes you'll feel like a punching ball, but mid-43 through 44 it seems the Germans can replace losses fairly well. Your most precious asset is space and time, it seems that should be defended at all costs.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:22 am

ORIGINAL: loki100

How worried are you that Oshawatt can muster a serious breakout around Riga? That might set off a catastrophic pocket for your forces on the landbridge (well the few not being buried by the sheer volume of artillery he is bringing to the show).

In fact he was close of doing the breakthrough at Daugavpils (turn 110/111). I thought he would choose my left side (Riga) but instead he attacked on the best terrain for him.

Thus he didn't try the largest envelopment.

He was right.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:35 am

ORIGINAL: caliJP

Stef I am surprised by the sudden retreats across section of fronts by many hexes in one turn. You have a 4m army with almost 4000 tanks, it seems you could make it harder for Oshawott to progress by retreating only very slowly. Yes you'll feel like a punching ball, but mid-43 through 44 it seems the Germans can replace losses fairly well. Your most precious asset is space and time, it seems that should be defended at all costs.

That's the main question for the germans. What should be the rate of trading space against time?

Maybe I'm too cautious but I don't underestimate the mobility of russians tank/mech units. When I have holes in my front or 3 hexes wide with only 1 level or below of forts, it's time to give ground. My first line could be pushed with hasty attacks and the the hole exploited by his mech units.

I don't show all the odds but against not well entrenched units he easily get odds > 7/1. That's really dangerous.

Ground shouldn't be defended at all costs. I did this mistakes against Schascha end august 1944 and the cost was 20 divs, the backbone of my northern defence. I want to avoid it as much as possible

At the moment, he his attacking on 4 axes and I'm not strong enough to stop him on these 4 points. I can still choose where I accept to let him advance.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:02 am

Turn 108, 8th july 1943

Soviets advance on several points

Pskov

Illustration of the response to caliJP. My defences here are easily pushed by Oshawott. I will retreat behind the Dvina

Vitebsk

The scale of the attack is wider every turn

South

His offensive has stalled

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:37 am

And a view of the all front

Flaviusx · Post by **Flaviusx** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:31 pm

For whatever it is worth, I think you did the right thing, Stef. That bulge in the baltics was asking for trouble.

caliJP · Post by **caliJP** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:18 pm

STEF I guess I didn't detail out my thought completely: I meant that rather than building a fort line 8-10 hexes behind the front line, and then retreat by that much in one shot, pro-actively build forts 2-4 hexes behind the front, specially in tough terrain, maybe not a full line but every other hex. Man that rear line with a few units broken into regiments or units refitting, between the FZs to complete the line. Then as the front becomes untenable, only retreat to that close by line so you don't give up too much ground. And then immediately start building some FZs 2-4 hexes behind that. It seems Germans build forts quite fast. So you may not need more than 2 fall back lines ready at any one tine, or maybe even just one and a half.
My experience as soviet is that a German army with forts right behind the front can make it nearly impossible to exploit retreats as the German units don't route and if they can retreat to a dug in hex, it is nearly impossible to push it again in the same turn. And if you can it's even harder to repeat across a wide enough path to make a hole big enough to send mechanized units through. So it becomes a 1 hex per turn game, and usually it is hard to even achieve that each turn across the whole front.
Anyway, just an idea.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:14 pm

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

For whatever it is worth, I think you did the right thing, Stef. That bulge in the baltics was asking for trouble.

Thanks, Oshawott point of view will be interesting.

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:26 pm

ORIGINAL: caliJP

STEF I guess I didn't detail out my thought completely: I meant that rather than building a fort line 8-10 hexes behind the front line, and then retreat by that much in one shot, pro-actively build forts 2-4 hexes behind the front, specially in tough terrain, maybe not a full line but every other hex. Man that rear line with a few units broken into regiments or units refitting, between the FZs to complete the line. Then as the front becomes untenable, only retreat to that close by line so you don't give up too much ground. And then immediately start building some FZs 2-4 hexes behind that. It seems Germans build forts quite fast. So you may not need more than 2 fall back lines ready at any one tine, or maybe even just one and a half.
My experience as soviet is that a German army with forts right behind the front can make it nearly impossible to exploit retreats as the German units don't route and if they can retreat to a dug in hex, it is nearly impossible to push it again in the same turn. And if you can it's even harder to repeat across a wide enough path to make a hole big enough to send mechanized units through. So it becomes a 1 hex per turn game, and usually it is hard to even achieve that each turn across the whole front.
Anyway, just an idea.

I understand better your point of view.

In fact, I try to buils forts directly behind my first line as I do in South Ukraine or on the landbridge (with régiments, sec units or allies). Level 2 forts is the minimum to slow a russian army such the one Oshawott has. Once soviet reaches level 1 or below forts, I think that creating a breakthrough for the russians becomes an heavy risk I cannot afford to play.

At some time giving 8/10 hexes gives 1/2 turn to dig in and extend russians supply line.

Maybe a checkerboard is a better solution but I'm not sure. I don't like losing units!

STEF78 · Post by **STEF78** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:34 pm

Turn 109, 15th july 1943

In the north, I retreat behind the Dvina. Maybe too fast, maybe not.

Smolensk

Intense battles! Vitebsk is lost

Kiev

Oshawott is trying to cross the Dniepr north of Kiev

South

I even get some defensive success

Fighter bombers

Everything on the right way!

Wuffer · Post by **Wuffer** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:26 pm

this an elastic defense as it gets, in face of this monster

a great perfomance of a single line of half depleted divisions, w/o forts, somewhere in the open

and the allies are not ready yet

Oshawott · Post by **Oshawott** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:42 am

Thanks, Oshawott point of view will be interesting.

I think the problem was that you didn't have a lot of units in the north to begin with. They were pretty much immediately overwhelmed once Finland surrendered. Then I moved several new armies into this sector.

Like you I would have focused on the Dvina. Unfortunately, by the time you moved those three Panzergrenadier divisions from Vitebsk into this sector it was too late and I had already crossed the Dvina in force.

Overall I would say that your ability to put walls of units and forts in front of my spearheads is amazing. But in the end the Germans just don't have enough troops just like it was in the real war. It must have been a desperate feeling for the Germans.

You might be overestimating tank mobility of the Russians. At this point they have half the mobility of a good German Panzer division.